What solid roller lifters are you running in your LA non roller block

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. yellow rose

    yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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    It depends on the cam core. The bigger the core, the quicker you run into frequency issues. I learned it from Dan Jesel. So it happens more than you know. I sent him some Crane lifters I was killing. In fact, I called to order a set of his lifters that were a hundred bucks each back then in 1996. He wouldn't sell them to me,because he said I didn't need them. So I sent him a few of the killed piles of crap and HE made the diagnosis.

    He had me write a note to Chase Knight and I sent those lifters back and Crane sent me a set of Pro Series with .810 wheels and the issue stopped.

    Again, if you know anything of resonance frequency, you know a hundred factors can cause a problem. The diameter of the core, the materiel of the core, total lift, rocker ratio and even rocker materiel will affect resonance frequency among many more things.

    Again, the cheap ass lifter companies should not even make a .904 lifter with a .750 wheel. There is no reason other than 95% of the lifters they sell use that little wheel and they cost most less than the bigger wheel.

    Without spending a ton of time on a spintron, you never know what frequency you'll have issues with. And the consequences of resonance frequency are quick and devastating.

    We started with ductile rockers. 7100 would kill the wheel. It would also take the lobe off the cam, bend the pushrod, and bust the rocker. The next switch was to aluminum rockers and that took it to about 7500. Then 7/16 straight wall pushrods got to maybe 7700. And every time it killed a lobe, rocker and pushrod. Double taper pushrods got it to 7900. Then I called Jesel because it became apparent that the lifter went first, which was exactly what everyone else said wasn't happening.

    Live and learn. I've seen guys have issues at less than 7k. It all depends. Why risk it?
     
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    • yellow rose

      yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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      The wheel speed gets so high it actually starts to vibrate, just like a tuning fork. You can't feel it in the car, or even catch it on the dyno. It happens so fast. You can add spring load and maybe, MAYBE get through it, but of its in an RPM range you hit and hold in the burnout you're dead before the green comes on. Also, the RPM range can be a few hundred RPM or 1500 RPM in extreme cases.
       
    • nm9stheham

      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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      Yeah, OK, and I have no problem imaging such a vibration... I am imagining it as the wheel precessing (wobbling) at very high speed around the axle. Seen some crazy thing happen and any small change like axle clearance could effect it, or so it seems. And the higher wheel speed with the bigger core or smaller wheel makes total sense.

      Just a side story, which made me not doubt anything like that : In testing of a certain naval electronic cabinet for high shock (simulating a torpedo hit on the ship), an electronic card would be found lying outside a completely closed cabinet after the test. High speed film showed the cabinet door bowing out during the test and the card would coming flying out of the gap between the momentarily bowed door and the cabinet opening. You could never design anything to do that LOL
       
    • yellow rose

      yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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      Precession is a good word for it.

      Also fun to note how without a camera I'd bet there were many who said no way did that card get past that door.
      As my friend always said...science be wierd.
       
    • dart19666

      dart19666 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      • rumblefish360

        rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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      • yellow rose

        yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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      • dart19666

        dart19666 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Only on a 48 degree block. For a 59 degree block no dice it will be on piston side.
         
      • rumblefish360

        rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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        Really! Humm, ummm, hate to ask, but, could you give the highlights as to why?
         
      • dart19666

        dart19666 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        Yes since it is at an 11 degree "Disadvantage" the wrong direction the pushrod will hit the link bar. I have tried raising the seat of the lifter to off set that but then the side load of the lifter goes through the roof, and at the same time makes the angle even worse. On a small block mopar you want to get the seat height as low as possible "Close to the wheel" as to make that angle as less as possible. Believe me I have tried it all and it has never survived on the spin tron or dyno.
         
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        • rumblefish360

          rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

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          Thank you very much!
           
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          • Needswork

            Needswork Well-Known Member

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            Hi Dart19666,

            Can you elaborate more on this?
            I'm thinking that if the portion of the lifter where the link bar attaches is on the piston side (for the reasons you describe) but the bar itself is rivited on the cam side, that will provide a little extra room between the link and the block but should not interfere with the pushrod. Does that make sense?

            These were on my short list even at the price. However, possibly having to grind a mostly assembled block to get these to fit is a concern for me.
             
          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            I have some solid rollers I would like to identify. Can you make a good guess as to the manufacturer based on a picture or two?
             
          • Krooser

            Krooser Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...

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            What are you guys paying to get sb lifter bores bushed?
             
          • B3422w5

            B3422w5 Well-Known Member

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            600-800 bucks is pretty common price.

            Nicest set of roller lifters i have had( and would go back to) are the Crane ultra pro’s. Had a set of those i ran 7 years, street and lots of strip use. They were still good when i sold the car.
             
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            • Krooser

              Krooser Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...

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              Guess that's not going to happen!

              Looks like I'll just tube the r/s lifter oil gallery to help control any big oil leaks and be happy.

              Thanks.
               
            • MOPAROFFICIAL

              MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Possibly
               
            • dart19666

              dart19666 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Yes we have done that also but then the Tombstone is too thin and breaks much easier. We have a part number and was selling lifters like that for years but we have a RPM, Spring pressure, And lobe velocity limit to run that style of lifter.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              Here is what I plan to run. See if you might can identify them. Thank you.
              LIFTERS4.jpg
              LIFTERS3.jpg
              LIFTERS2.jpg
              LIFTERS1.jpg
               
            • yellow rose

              yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Overnight Sensation

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                LOL I also forgot about the relief on top of the body to clear the pushrod. With the pushrod seat that high it really jacks with the geometry on that side of the rocker. Forgot all about that.
                 
              • MOPAROFFICIAL

                MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                They are Morel. Solid roller version has a clip cup as well, and they tried to recess it some.. you end up with around a 6.40-.45 ball/cup
                .750 wheel. That lil oil hole obviously feeds the wheel..oil gets into rollers very well and they last. Same as what I have.
                 
              • MOPAROFFICIAL

                MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                Yes, I bought them used from a member here. All of them look very good.
                 
              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                Okay they are pretty good then? That makes me happ(ier). Thank you.
                 
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