What the hell is going on with shops?

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Hersbird said:
So if I need work on my Barracuda now I have to pay for all your fancy scanners so you can work on a new Honda? Or the topic of this tread in the first place, you need all those scanners to fix a slave cylinder? I still challenge you to post some book times for common jobs so we can see how clueless I am. It is COMMON in shops for a single tech to write up 16 hours worth of work in the day and then work 9-5. I know the tax write offs don't cover the costs totally but it does cover a portion. Basically all those costs you mention come right off the highest tax bracket you make it to.
Like I said in the beginning, I don't mind paying a fair price for good work. I just want transparency and a little less spin. Like I said I have had a shop do a job, seen the labor time they wrote down, then did the same job myself and beat it with no experience and simple hand tools. Maybe that's not common but as I pointed out then why are there techs out there writing up 16 hours worth of work and working 8 hours? That is rhetorical, I realize why it happens, you explained it, it's how you cover up for the fact you just need to charge $300/hr to keep a profit. I'm fine with that, I say just charge $300/hr and be done with it!
As far as me I deliver mail to at least 1100 houses every day, usually 6 days a week, 45-55 hours/wk on average. I live in a below average for our area $185,000 home with a couple 5-10 year old cars, a 30 year old boat, and a 20 year old truck camper. To get this job I worked 11 years in the navy as a nuclear hydro electric machinery mechanic and chemist 60-80 hours a week and my highest earnings year was $24,000. I too haven't gotten a raise in over 2 years and have to pay more for all that stuff just like you do, at least I voted for the other guy, LOL! I pay entirely too many taxes also as have to deal with more government bureaucracy then you can imagine as well. I'm sure you would think my job easy as well, but everything is until you actually do it!
Good luck, sorry to offend your honest and fair work standards, obviously you are not the problem out there. that said you are the clueless ones if you deny the shams that go on in the auto repair world.
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One last point to make regarding the labor times charged; That isn't just for the time the technician takes to do the job but also includes the time taken to do the administrative portion of the job. It has t take it all into account. The time on the phone to book the appointment, the time spent at the counter by a (hopefully) professional, the time spend calling around or looking up parts on the computer & preparing an estimate(not a 5 min. job in a lot of cases at all), time spent closing out a repair order & make a final invoice, & then quality control. If you were to take a stop watch & time each aspect of the process involved & compared that to the billing time I'm sure you would see it isn't all about 300% profits. Probably more like a 25-40% margin on labor, which isn't by itself enough to sustain a business very long.
You stated you are a letter carrier, well the post office is forced to raise the costs of postage when their costs go up. Labor costs rise, benefit costs rise, FUEL cost to tranport all that mail rise, storage facilities & maintainence costs, compiled with the declining volume of postal mail because of electronic correspondence. I'm sure you feel that pinch in your job. Everybody complains when the cost of a stamp does go up. But it has to to cover expenses. Some think it's not worth it. But they want that letter to arrive!
BTW the P.O. to it's credit is the only government agency that has to operate on a budget based on its revenue that it generates vs it's costs directly! They have to balance a budget! Ironic isn't it? But that's another rant for another forum I guess!
Just take a minute to consider the bigger picture that's all I'm saying.
Let's all get back to Happy Moparing again!
 
I've been in the industry since the mid 80s in one way or another. My $.02... Is $1100 too much? Probably. But those of you who are adding the over-the-counter cost of the part and supplies, plus a couple hours are missing som things. There is the labor rate - around here it's anywhere from $65-150/hr depending on the shop. Then there's the part - it will sell for list plus 20 to 50%. The dealerships sell them to licensed shops at list minus 10%. You buy it for list from the dealer. Then there's the liability a pro shop shoulders. What happens if the guy on the web or the local Auto Zone guy is wrong? Now the shop's on the hook for it because "they replaced it and had the pan off." Nevermind the possible convertor issues that are not at all visible.
If you rolled into my shop I'd charge you an hour to verify the problem, tell you to go buy the part and a filter kit at the dealer, and then charge actual labor time to replace it along with fluids, and you'd sign a form stating customer parts - no warranty. The clock starts when I take the keys off the board, and ends when it's parked after the test drive. At $95/hr, it would probably still be a $300 bill after supplies and tax and you would have dropped the cash at the dealer already. If you want the warranty you pay me to get to the source of the issue, my parts markup, and book time.
Like any other business - you pay for professionalism and accuracy in that particular field. They aren't crooks. An engineer isnt a crook at $150/hr. My lawyer isnt at $300/hr. The Union electrician isn't at $80/hr. Niehter is a good technician in a pro shop.
 
Hersbird said:
So if I need work on my Barracuda now I have to pay for all your fancy scanners so you can work on a new Honda? Or the topic of this tread in the first place, you need all those scanners to fix a slave cylinder? I still challenge you to post some book times for common jobs so we can see how clueless I am. It is COMMON in shops for a single tech to write up 16 hours worth of work in the day and then work 9-5. I know the tax write offs don't cover the costs totally but it does cover a portion. Basically all those costs you mention come right off the highest tax bracket you make it to.
Like I said in the beginning, I don't mind paying a fair price for good work. I just want transparency and a little less spin. Like I said I have had a shop do a job, seen the labor time they wrote down, then did the same job myself and beat it with no experience and simple hand tools. Maybe that's not common but as I pointed out then why are there techs out there writing up 16 hours worth of work and working 8 hours? That is rhetorical, I realize why it happens, you explained it, it's how you cover up for the fact you just need to charge $300/hr to keep a profit. I'm fine with that, I say just charge $300/hr and be done with it!
As far as me I deliver mail to at least 1100 houses every day, usually 6 days a week, 45-55 hours/wk on average. I live in a below average for our area $185,000 home with a couple 5-10 year old cars, a 30 year old boat, and a 20 year old truck camper. To get this job I worked 11 years in the navy as a nuclear hydro electric machinery mechanic and chemist 60-80 hours a week and my highest earnings year was $24,000. I too haven't gotten a raise in over 2 years and have to pay more for all that stuff just like you do, at least I voted for the other guy, LOL! I pay entirely too many taxes also as have to deal with more government bureaucracy then you can imagine as well. I'm sure you would think my job easy as well, but everything is until you actually do it!
Good luck, sorry to offend your honest and fair work standards, obviously you are not the problem out there. that said you are the clueless ones if you deny the shams that go on in the auto repair world.
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Im not saying your barracuda is paying for any new instruments or tooling, and please im not fighting with you either, just clarifying what happens at shops.
As for the 16hrs in 9 hr days, the only places that do that are dealerships.


I am very well aware of the nonsense in my industry, and between the clueless shops doing things they shouldn't, the shops pirating parts, the other bs salesman talk im sickened of my industry. . . .
The BS advertizing, who has the flashy car in the add, the gimmick, the cool display, the best advertizing gets the work nowadays, not the best qualified, experienced shop, but the best advertized and showmanship shop.. Or the term _____ specialist because they have a car that went fast once, or is the fastest of that model, that doesn't make you a specialist, and I haven't had a raise since 2001.

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moper said:
you pay for professionalism and accuracy in that particular field. They aren't crooks. An engineer isnt a crook at $150/hr. My lawyer isnt at $300/hr. The Union electrician isn't at $80/hr. Niehter is a good technician in a pro shop.
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An engineer isn't, the electrician isn't.... but i have a lawyer for a issue im having and im starting to see differently about that one...
The doctor too when i know i got something and need to see him only to prescribe meds and the little bs talk and the lol and 3 mins for $100
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We're cool supershafts, its actually a great thing you are doing fixing and modifying parts. Seems like replacing crappy built parts with more crappy parts is the future of auto repair. Someday as in computers, one major failure and its better to just throw it away!
 
..... It is COMMON in shops for a single tech to write up 16 hours worth of work in the day and then work 9-5......

The shop may see that high labor rate, the technician doesn't. He gets paid way less, that is why he books 16 hours in a 8 hour day. When I was turning wrenches it was usually six days with no more than 12 hours a day. Sometimes I was working on two cars the same time while waiting for parts. If you don't hussle like that your not going to make in this business. Twenty years ago I was making 12.00 an hour and then I think the shop labor rate was 45-50.
 
Thats another issue im not all that keen with, in my shop i don't make my guys buy tools, they can but i don't force or expect them to.

If im charging 75 an hour and you're gonna buy the 70k plus in tools WTF... that's just not right in my book.
Here the shops make the mechanic buy EVERYTHING, and nowadays many cars aren't getting the right diagnosis without a very good scanner (more than $5k) and then the updates ( $2k or more per) which isn't right, you own the shop, i feel you AT the VERY least buy all the big stuff.
Between a tool box able to hold all the tools you need nowadays and the electronic tools you're talking about having $70K or more to do this, and then that means the mechanic's salary should be $90k a year and that ain't happening...
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