What to do?

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MB43

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Here's the deal.

At the end of last season, I found a lot of coolant in my oil. I think one (or maybe both) of my heads are cracked. They're X heads that have been milled quite a bit. Either there's a crack in one of the heads or the intake gaskets failed. Or maybe the intake just doesn't fit properly. I bought a pair of Mr. Gasket ultra-seal intake gaskets to put on the car now and found that I had to trim the bottom of the gaskets to make them fit properly. Maybe that'll fix it, I don't know.

The next problem is that one side's axle tube in the rear (an 8-1/4) is starting to twist. That side is leaking a little bit where the tube goes into the center section. Aside from that the rear is in good shape, no noise or anything.

The final problem is that I'll only have around $1500 to spend on the car. I wanted to get a set of Edelbrock heads, but now I'm thinking that I should probably replace the rear. I'd like to go with an 8-3/4, 9" or Dana... A new D60 from Strange is appealing, but too expensive. An 8-3/4 is hard to find in these parts. I guess I'd need a new driveshaft as well...

So what to do? E-heads and run the risk of blowing up the rear sometime this year? Or fix the rear and hope the new intake gaskets fix the problem? Or spend my days changing the oil and replacing intake gaskets?
 
Thats a hard one. I'd change the gaskets and keep an eye on the oil. Hopefully you can get another season out of those gaskets. Slap a new rear under it with some gears for this year.
 
well both problems seem equally bad on the surface. the head gasket problem maybe fixed? time will tell on that one. the axle is another problem. no getting around that one. i think i'd go for the axle. there is no way to band aid it. fix it and if you have to address the other problems again , fix them then ......
 
i'd probably fix the rearend problem first,
if it lets go the drive shaft and trans.
might go with it.
the trans. would at least need checked :sprag.
i'd check to see if your spring is being damaged,
and mark housing and tube to see it moves.
maybe weld the housing.
if you've milled the heads alot, it changes the intake
and head sealing surface angles. maybe could have an effect.
hope you can fix her and buy the heads.
 
as far as the rear housing goes, if it is rotated and you can get it back to where it should be the tubes , it can be welded to the center section, I weld all of mine as a general part of building up a rear end for drag racing.
as far as your intake gaskets....try to put the intake manifold on using spacers the same thickness of the compressed gasket, at that point you can actually use a set of feeler guages to see if there is a difference in the mating angle of the heads to the manifold. the distance between the two should be the same at the top and bottom of the intake gasket,,,this will at least tell you if the gaskets have a chance to work. if the distance is different then look into having the intake milled at an angle, be carefull though to much removal will shift the manifold to a lower posistion ,making the ports misaligned.this situation may be corected by thicker gaskets if not to severe...... i would also pull the heads and have them pressure checked, .... just some ideas, i am sure others here will have many more,,,,
 
no matter how much the heads were milled, the intake gasket should fit with no trimming. If it doesnt, then you need to take the time and have it fit properly. That may be your source of mixing. I also wouldnt spend dime 1 until you discover the problem. You dont have enough to waste any. You're flying for running an 8 1/4..that needs to go. An 8 3/4 is easy to find in the northeast..but a decent bolt in complete one will run $4-500, plus the driveshaft shortening. I doubt the heads cracked..It's possible the gasket blew..small blocks are common with that.
 
Adam - "slap a new rear under it". You make it sound so easy! Got any spare 8-3/4s or 9" rears laying around? ;-)

7demon2 - I'm pretty sure the problem is with the intake gaskets, not the head gaskets. This happened once before, two years ago. Then I pulled the heads and the head gaskets looked ok. The intake gaskets looked bad, though. This year I pulled the intake off and the gaskets looked shot again.

longarm - that's exactly what I'm worried about, the rear blowing up and taking out the tranny.

68gts340 - If I put the intake on without using the cork ends it appears to fit fine. I found that if I used the cork I couldn't even get the bolts in properly. Without them (just using RTV on the ends) it's fine. I haven't checked with a feeler gauge, though, I'll give that a shot. Where would I check, just in the front & rear? Do I need to worry about the middle or not?

moper - Got any leads on a $4-500 bolt in 8-3/4?
 
Mike;

Without a doubt, I'd do the rear. It could lead to more expensive repairs or total replacement of parts later on down the road.
I'd also skip E heads. IMO, For a better bang out of your buck, by the time you finish porting the E-heads, you would do well by skipping them and getting the LA version of the Magnum R/T head (comando replacement head) or the LP comando head. I know the price seems scarry expensive, but in the long run, it will seriously out perform the E-heads silly.
I have the E-heads. They perform well. About as good as a set of well preped, lightly port X heads. There biggest advantage is there aluminum. And the'll port out 30 - 40 cfm over X heads in the average skilled porters hands. The MoPar heads will do that above the E-heads.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Without a doubt, I'd do the rear. It could lead to more expensive repairs or total replacement of parts later on down the road.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm starting to think the same thing.

I'd also skip E heads. IMO, For a better bang out of your buck, by the time you finish porting the E-heads, you would do well by skipping them and getting the LA version of the Magnum R/T head (comando replacement head) or the LP comando head. I know the price seems scarry expensive, but in the long run, it will seriously out perform the E-heads silly.
Click to expand...

The what now? This is the first I'm hearing of them. Got a link? Some info? How much?

I have the E-heads. They perform well. About as good as a set of well preped, lightly port X heads. There biggest advantage is there aluminum. And the'll port out 30 - 40 cfm over X heads in the average skilled porters hands. The MoPar heads will do that above the E-heads.
Click to expand...

Well, I've got well prepped, ported X heads. You're saying I won't see that much of a difference by going with the E heads?
 
The what now? This is the first I'm hearing of them. Got a link? Some info? How much?
Click to expand...
I mis-spoke or forgot about one head to mention. First up;

The "A" engine replacement head. Based off the Magnum R/T head. My mistake here. It is a Magnum head drilled for the Comando (Older) intakes. It would be just like a Magnum conversion. I myself would skip it.

The head I forgot to mention, The Aluminum Comando cylinder head. (P4876785) Think upgrade from X head, better ports with a smaller chamber so you don't lose power because of the metal. The head will use everything on your current heads. No problem. It does state 2 cave eats. Different head bolts and minor mod to the rocker shafts. I do not know what this is.

The 3rd head, the Big Port Comando. Minor porting to this head out flows fully ported Edelbrock heads. The only cave eat that I see beside that it could really use some work to the chamber before you do anything is the use of W-2 rocker gear.

Also, all heads come bare. I spoke with Dick at Port Jeff Chrysler. He said to me he would sell me the heads @ 680 a head I think. Thats the only place I priced it at. He took a $100+ off the top of the heads list. (If not more)

Well, I've got well prepped, ported X heads. You're saying I won't see that much of a difference by going with the E heads?
Click to expand...
Before I commit to a YES. And thats what I'd probably say sitting here knowing nothing about your heads and there prep/work. I'm more of a facts kind of guy. Scientist about matters. I'd want to know the facts on your actual head flow. You can look up Edelbrocks claims easy at there web site.
How do the match up?
How many cc's are in your X heads?
You said you milled them. With that, let me guess a milling to reduce head chamber from 70 - 72 to 65 cc's. That would be the same as the Edelbrocks.
Being aluminum, the heat loss is equal to 1 pt. of compresion. (losely)
Now on head flow. Dedcent porting, not crazy like, can get these "X" heads at the OTTB level of Edelbrock heads.
Edelbrock lists there S/B Chrysler heads flow as, @ .400 232/171 @ .400 , 249/183 @ .500, @ .600 @ 251/190, int./exh.
How does this compare to your heads?
That leaves you where?
With an infearior flowing head at a 1 pt. compresion loss. Now a 9.5-1 engine is acting like a 8.5-1 head or worse.
Now your back to milling and porting to achive a better level than the "X" heads.

Starting with the MoPar heads would be a better bet from where I sit, and in the long run it would be worth the expense. Othe heads to consider would be the Brodix or Indy(s)

Do not get me wrong about edel heads. Again, I own a set and like them for the street. Theres also guys running in the 10's with them, but with extensive porting. I also have not noticed anybody doing it with a 340 or 360 cid engine. But they could be out there.
 
From Mancini racings web site;
A" Engine Replacement Cylinder Head — 2.02" Intake, 1.625" Exhaust

Based on the Magnum R/T big-valve head design and machined to fit 318/340/360 Mopar Small Block Intake Manifolds made through 1991. Imagine the new combinations!


MOPP5007950 $419.95 http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/castiron.html

From Bob Mazzolini (Ca.)
P4876785 ALUMINUM COMMANDO $679/EA (Can be ported to 300 cfm)
P4876310 ALUMINUM COMMANDO LARGE PORT $679/EA (Dick @ Port Jeff did me $10 cheaper, so skip shipping, I'm driving around the corner. Ha ha ha. Light chamber work and bowl work, 300 cfm))
P4510324 W-9 59 DEGREE STANDARD BLOCK $779/EA (Wack cfm in stock form)
Still looking for pictures.
 
mikelbeck said:
Adam - "slap a new rear under it". You make it sound so easy! Got any spare 8-3/4s or 9" rears laying around? ;-)

7demon2 - I'm pretty sure the problem is with the intake gaskets, not the head gaskets. This happened once before, two years ago. Then I pulled the heads and the head gaskets looked ok. The intake gaskets looked bad, though. This year I pulled the intake off and the gaskets looked shot again.

longarm - that's exactly what I'm worried about, the rear blowing up and taking out the tranny.

68gts340 - If I put the intake on without using the cork ends it appears to fit fine. I found that if I used the cork I couldn't even get the bolts in properly. Without them (just using RTV on the ends) it's fine. I haven't checked with a feeler gauge, though, I'll give that a shot. Where would I check, just in the front & rear? Do I need to worry about the middle or not?

moper - Got any leads on a $4-500 bolt in 8-3/4?
Click to expand...


I would check in as many places as i could, also take a machinest straight edge to the surfaces, the straight edge will show if anything is warped.
how does the port alignment look on the old gaskets ? you might be able to see any misalignment by carefully examining the old gaskets.. i have made templates for the heads and used them to check the port alignment on the intake also... using the bolt holes as the fixed point.( much the same as port matching ) these have to be pretty accurate so take your time ....for the shims i have cut sections out of the old gaskets ,( from the bolt hole area ) or even some washers will work, as long as they are the same thickness of the gasket, I used a light torque # around 20 lbs I think but cant remember for sure, use all the bolts, all with a shim. that way you can see how the manifold sits when in use, another tell tale is bolt thread marks on the upper half of the manifold mounting holes, it the bolt drags there it cant sit low enough. thread marks on the bottom of those holes and the manifold is to high .. or oblonged holes to get the bolts to start straight .. I actually had a very similar problem some years ago on a 340, drove me nuts....finally found a warped intake manifold... some one had opened up the holes to get the bolts to fit... I have been using silicone on the ends for years , great stuff.. .. go slow check every thing and good luck.....
 
Mopower71 said:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=9279
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Thanks Norman. I hadnt seen that one, but I have seen them here for that money..some with Sure Grips.
Mike, As I said, and 340 said..check everything..checking is free...lol. And, if the heads were milled more than .030, there should have been milling on either the intake itself, or the intake flange of the cylinder heads. That Must be corrected..you're losing out on some power if the ports are not aligned just right.
 
68gts340 said:
I would check in as many places as i could, also take a machinest straight edge to the surfaces, the straight edge will show if anything is warped.
Click to expand...

Good idea, I'll try that as well.

how does the port alignment look on the old gaskets ? you might be able to see any misalignment by carefully examining the old gaskets..
Click to expand...

The bolt holes looked ok on the old gaskets. But the gaskets were wet around the coolant passages.

Mopower71 - thanks for that link, that's just what I'm looking for. The problem is I don't have the cash yet, I'm sure that when I have the cash to spend they'll be no 8-3/4's to be found. That's how my luck is. ;-)

I'd have to either change the center section or change the internals (put in a spool, change the gears). Would it make more sense (or be cheaper) to try to find just a housing and then a center section seperately? I've seen a guy on eBay selling A-Body housings for like $200 or $250. No axles or ends, though.
 
Mopower71 said:
Might get real expensive trying to piece it together.
Brakes,
Spool,
Gears,
Bearings,
yoke,
etc...
Click to expand...
Ah, yeah, you're right. But unless I find an 8-3/4 done up the way I want it (spool, gear, axles) I'm gonna have to upgrade it anyway.
 
Umm, Mikel,
"Bought it from a lunatic who told me that the lollipop in the ashtray had to stay there or it would bring me bad luck.?

You didn't take it out, did you?
 
Mopower71 said:
Umm, Mikel,
"Bought it from a lunatic who told me that the lollipop in the ashtray had to stay there or it would bring me bad luck.?
Click to expand...

Damn... Where'd you find that?

You didn't take it out, did you?
Click to expand...

Not only did I take it out, but I put it in a vise, crushed it, and mailed the pieces back to him.
 
72demon340 sent me an email thursday.
he said he had a complete 8 3/4 rearend.
no detail.
longarm
 
You'll "have to upgrade it" if you buy an 8 3/4..But, you've got a lot of potential in a stock complete unit. Find a case and axles, and a seperate 2.76-3.23 chuck non limited slip from a truck or C body. The case/axles should be less than $200 with no brakes and stock axles. The center should run in the $50-$100 range. Then, you have $700 in ring and pinion, axle bearings/seals, R&P install kit, and a powertrax locker. A spool needs aftermarket axles, and the power trax wont slip(its a locker type limited slip). That leaves a bit for any engine fixing work/parts. A complete assembly will cost a lot more, and need a complete redo anyway to fit your needs..Unless you get lucky and find a competition guy going Dana..Look on racingjunk.com You might get lucky and get one ready to go for less than $800.
 
Well, I feel like a tool. ;-)

I checked the heads, perfectly flat on the intake side. I checked the intake, perfectly flat. I put the intake on the motor and checked all around with a feeler gauge, it's the same all around.

So... I put everything together with gaskets & RTV. Ran off to Pep Boys to get some oil, an oil filter and a few other things. I picked up a case of oil, then saw a 5-1/2 quart jug of oil and bought that instead.

I get home, grab a quick bite to eat and go back out to the garage. Put the oil in, make sure nothing's leaking and run the water pump. Check the oil, it's nice and clean. Put the new carb on, hook everything up, try to fire it up. No fire, so I shoot some starting fluid in it. Fires right up, idles nice and sounds much better than I remember. Shut it down, check for leaks and notice the bag from Pep Boys on the floor - with the new oil filter in it. So I check the dipstick, it's all white again. I guess the old oil filter (which I forgot to remove) was full of water.

Guess I should've bought the case of oil instead? :sad2:

So I wasted 5 quarts of oil. I'll go back for some more tomorrow.
 
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