TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
That would be me. What’s crackin?
When to worry about engine noises?
- Thread starter MRGTX
- Start date
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i would of typed your name out but i was on my phone and the numbers don't work for some reason . oh ya my bones and joints are what's crackin
.
She needs to hit you upside the head with a bat for all our sakes.
j par
Well-hung Member
No I'm not suggesting what you should do just telling you what I've done. When I rebuilt my 4 speed..
I drove it like I stole it when I put a new clutch in I drove it like I stole it after I broke my engine and I drove it like a stole it....
First thing I want to know if it's going to break and leave me stranded. And I would double those efforts if I had a warranty...
Before it runs out...
Nine years later now I could go out and jump in that thing and I wouldn't blink twice at driving across the country except for of course the amount of gas it would drink LOL or the fact that I don't even have windshield wipers on it...lol.
Don't let these internet guru's (I have most these Ya-hoo's on ignore anyways..) get in your head just enjoy your hobby and don't worry about it. I'm sure you're like me and have good insurance with towing...
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Rain-X. lol
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
That’s a worry for me everyday. I sleep with one eye open. She scares me.
Ironracer
Gearhead
Hence the term "idiot lights" huh? Lol , I always heard when the temp/oil/V ga lights kick, yer on The late side......
Ironracer
Gearhead
I had that on a car way back in the '80s, works better the faster you went,but it worked! ( if your windshield wipers didn't work, and you were too young) to know how to fix something... storms get so bad around here, once I moved down this way to play music, I actually kept using its
Ironracer
Gearhead
Amount of Gas used? Or the Price?
Ironracer
Gearhead
Sounds like my x
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I bought a sender that triggers at 20 PSI because of that.
j par
Well-hung Member
Who gave me the Red x LOL ...
Are they still eating turds and stepping over donuts... LOL...
I'm sure whoever it is they're giving you plenty to worry about and robbing the fun out of your hobby for their entertainment...
Are they still eating turds and stepping over donuts... LOL...
I'm sure whoever it is they're giving you plenty to worry about and robbing the fun out of your hobby for their entertainment...
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
Great advice to beat the **** out of an engine with an issue because it has a warranty.
Brilliant.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
67 gt
A Wog boy who loves his Mopars !
La 360 stroker solid roller it runs a Hv pump broken in using Joe Gibbs break in after 8k have been using a synthetic with Zinc 15-40 or 20-50 . 75psi cold ,hot idle @850 rpm to provide some oil splash on lifters 35-40 psi 2000rpm and over 65psi . Top end gets fed the via hollow push rod tubes as well as the normal way through shafts Engine has 21k on it now .Better to spend on quality oil and filter than saving a few bucks and risking damage.
My big block produced 20 psi oil pressure after Mount Saint Helene's ash took the bearings out in 1980.
There is a lot of superstition and myth about oils as most people don't know what is in an oil or how they are certified. Also, times change, and advertizing of the past doesn't apply to current products. Such as Pennzoil sludges your engine or Mobil 1 Synthetic is superier to other oils. These are myths.
Modern engine oils meet API requirements which include multiple engine tests designed to stress oils to the limit of engine operating conditions (extreme heat, long duration slow speed operation, e.g., Taxi service, high engine speed, etc). Essentially all modern engine oils are formulated with base oils that are functionally equivalent to "synthetic" base oils and many meet the defintion of synthetic although they are not the specific synthetic molecule used by Mobil. What is far more important is what engine tests and certifications the oils meets, and will it protect your specific engine.
Engines with roller follower camshafts can use the latest API classifications such as SN and just released SP. Engines with slider follower camshafts (most pre-1980 engines) need additional ZnDTP (antiwear additive). You can buy an oil that claims this but it won't meet current API requirements so there are risks. Or you can buy Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oils that display both the C-category (CH-4 and the like) and the S-Category (SN or SP). Only HDDEO's are allowed to have higher ZnDTP levels as there are diesel engine components that require the additional antiwear additive.
I ran Delo 400 SAE 15W-40 in all my engines since 1981 when I began formulating for Chevron and their additive company Oronite. I ran it in a freshly rebuilt 1966 426 Hemi Belvedere, 1967 Barracuda 383 Formula S, 1970 Challenger R/T 383, and my '68 Barracuda 340 Formula S. I raced all but the Hemi multiple times and never had a lubricant issue.
Formulating engine oils requires about $2 million in engine tests and most additive suppliers also conduct field tests. In my experience with formulating oils, I found that there is essentially no meaningful difference between conventional hydroprocessed and synthetic oils other than cost. I formulated an ancient engine oil with less than half the additives of modern oils and tested it in NY City taxicabs for 100,000 miles. Modern oils had a 10,000 mile drain interval and the older oil was changed at 3,000 miles. The engines were disassembled and measured for wear and deposits. The old oil with 3000 mil drain showed less wear and deposits than the modern oils with 10,000 mile drain. This demonstrates that it is far more important to change your oil than worrying about which oil you use.
I would recommend using a modern oil with additional ZnDTP additive than use an oil that does not knowing what specifications the oil meets.
I will use Delo 400 SAE 15W-40 in my new 340 engine that will be started in about a month once the interior and exterior are assembled.
Modern engine oils meet API requirements which include multiple engine tests designed to stress oils to the limit of engine operating conditions (extreme heat, long duration slow speed operation, e.g., Taxi service, high engine speed, etc). Essentially all modern engine oils are formulated with base oils that are functionally equivalent to "synthetic" base oils and many meet the defintion of synthetic although they are not the specific synthetic molecule used by Mobil. What is far more important is what engine tests and certifications the oils meets, and will it protect your specific engine.
Engines with roller follower camshafts can use the latest API classifications such as SN and just released SP. Engines with slider follower camshafts (most pre-1980 engines) need additional ZnDTP (antiwear additive). You can buy an oil that claims this but it won't meet current API requirements so there are risks. Or you can buy Heavy Duty Diesel Engine Oils that display both the C-category (CH-4 and the like) and the S-Category (SN or SP). Only HDDEO's are allowed to have higher ZnDTP levels as there are diesel engine components that require the additional antiwear additive.
I ran Delo 400 SAE 15W-40 in all my engines since 1981 when I began formulating for Chevron and their additive company Oronite. I ran it in a freshly rebuilt 1966 426 Hemi Belvedere, 1967 Barracuda 383 Formula S, 1970 Challenger R/T 383, and my '68 Barracuda 340 Formula S. I raced all but the Hemi multiple times and never had a lubricant issue.
Formulating engine oils requires about $2 million in engine tests and most additive suppliers also conduct field tests. In my experience with formulating oils, I found that there is essentially no meaningful difference between conventional hydroprocessed and synthetic oils other than cost. I formulated an ancient engine oil with less than half the additives of modern oils and tested it in NY City taxicabs for 100,000 miles. Modern oils had a 10,000 mile drain interval and the older oil was changed at 3,000 miles. The engines were disassembled and measured for wear and deposits. The old oil with 3000 mil drain showed less wear and deposits than the modern oils with 10,000 mile drain. This demonstrates that it is far more important to change your oil than worrying about which oil you use.
I would recommend using a modern oil with additional ZnDTP additive than use an oil that does not knowing what specifications the oil meets.
I will use Delo 400 SAE 15W-40 in my new 340 engine that will be started in about a month once the interior and exterior are assembled.
I use VR1 20/50W , my big blocks are always happy and reliable using it. 40 plus years using Valvoline products.
Standard volume pump with high pressure spring.
Standard volume pump with high pressure spring.
Whenever I see a post from an "expert" and the first thing they start out with is how much everyone else "doesn't know" I click them off like a switch.
I have a new standard volume pump with a high pressure spring in my slant 6 and it's rock steady at 70PSI at hot idle. It rises to about 75 "or so" PSI with RPM, but that's about all it gets because the relief valve starts working.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
There was a LOT of that back then. I parked my car and walked through the worst of that crap.
What a mess. In fact, May 18 2023 will be 43 years ago.
I was at Riverdale in 2011ish to watch a WORCS race and if you hadn’t lived though or seen what happened you wouldn’t know it happened.
That was after we were told it would be decades if not centuries before wildlife and the forests would recover. Took about 9 months for vegetation to come back and the deer and elk were spotted soon after.
Imagine that.
Rat Bastid
Dunamis Metron
It funny you mention this because @lead69 and I have been going down the rabbit hole on this for some time now.
Pressure is the measurement of restriction to flow (I know YOU know this, I just want to set the ground work so it makes sense to some who may not know) so either the more oil you try and push through a restriction or the higher the viscosity of an oil you push through the same restriction(s) affects what we see on the gauge.
The problem is (one problem anyway) that an oils viscosity is based on its grade (not “weight” as there is no such thing as a “weight” of oil) and it’s temperature. Change one or both of those and you change what’s seen on the gauge.
The last part of that is the cumulative effect of all the leaks in the system. These include all the leaks at all the bearings, the leaks at the rockers, the lifters.
If you increase the clearance you reduce the pressure because the leakage is higher. You can reduce the clearances (or make a repair if say a lifter bore is loose or something) or run a higher grade (less viscous) oil. That will increase the pressure.
What used to be the norm was all these aftermarket cranks were coming ground on the mid to high side of the tolerance. Sometime, even if you opened up the rod and main bores to the maximum you’d still be tight. Plus you’d have the minimum bearing crush.
Thats what .001 and .011 bearings for Chevys were available. Thats why most of the stuff I did back then got chevy rods. And yes, I turned brand new cranks down to Chevy rod throws and .010 mains so I could run the bearing bores at the minimum and still get the clearance I wanted.
Today, that appears to NOT be the case. It’s looking like they are now grinding the cranks to .001-.0015 UNDER minimum!!!
So even with the housing bores at the minimum, you still can get well over .0030 clearance. IMO that’s way too much for todays oils.
The rule of thumb has been .0010 clearance per inch of shaft. Today, most stuff can be .0095 or even a bit less. That means for a 2.125 shaft you can be at .0020 clearance. My mains (340 size) are set up at .0023 so that’s about .0093ish per inch of shaft diameter.
That means I can run a 0W20 oil and still have enough pressure (and flow) to cool and lubricate the engine. And it will most likely cool and lubricate better with the lower grade oil because it flows much faster and shed heat a bit better than a heavier grade oil.
Certainly that will make more power as well.
I said all that to say that when you see low oil pressure it’s probably a combination of things. More clearance that is needed, a lower grade oil than needed or both.
I‘m from the end of the era when running a 50 or 60 grade oil and .0029-.0031 on the rods and .0038-.0040 on the mains was standard.
One of the things I miss most is paper carton oil cans and the push in oil spout.
With the oil we have today we can tighten down the clearances, run a lower grade oil, make more power and have the engine live longer.
If the clearances are still from the 1970’s then you still need to open the clearance up.
I miss those paper container cans too. I had spouts in every drawer and corner of the garage and probably one or two in the trunk.
Glenn Radford
Member
I recall a U-Tube video of "Nick's Garage" where he couldn't establish over 25 psi at idle in a 318 he was trying to dyno test. He eventually established that the engine had at one time been fitted with AMC style hollow pushrods, which drained off oil pressure to the point where overall engine pressure was too low.
Not sure if this applies in your case, but may be worth considering.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
The old standard was 10PSI per 1,000 RPM. 20 PSI at idle seems OK to me as there is no load on the engine. 40 PSI at cruise, well what RPM. My guess would be 2300 to 2700 RPM.My engine is running great and pulling hard but it makes some noises that I don't like so I would appreciate any input on this.
I have about 1500 miles on my Blueprint engines 408 stroker. This is a hydraulic/roller engine, Magnum block with Edelbrock aluminum heads and 10:1 compression. It does have forged pistons (which may be relevant to the noise issue...).
I ran their recommended/branded break-in oil for the first ~700 miles or so, and I have run their recommended version of Shell Rotella dinosaur oil ever since. I am on my second change with that stuff...so the thing has never been low on oil nor has it ever had old oil in it. It has seen nothing but Shell 93 octane gas. Timing is set as recommended (all in at 34*). The engine has yet to be flogged, largely because the Radial T/A tires won't let that happen.
The oil pressure runs lower than my old Magnum 5.9. When fully warm, it hovers around 40psi while cruising. At idle, it drops down to close to 20.
When running, especially at idle, the engine makes some clattering/clacking noises. It almost sounds like it has solid lifters. It's noticeable from inside or outside of the car.
I called Blueprint engines last summer to ask them about this and they said that their Chrysler motors tend to be mechanically noisy and not to worry about it. They also said that the oil pressure was normal.
Would you be worried about this noise? When do you know it's time for a tear down?
The engine has a warranty but the last thing I want to do is actually use it.
Oil pressure is a balncing act, a dance to speak of. The oil pump creates flow with a volume at any given RPM, remembering the oil pump is turning 1/2 crankshaft RPM. Then there is a relief valve designed to limit the maximum pressure in the system. The oil is restricted in flow rate by the internal "leaks" in the engine. What "leaks" you ask? Main and con rod bearings, camshaft bearings, lifter bore clearance, lifter plunger clearance on hydraulic lifters and rocker arms should cover pretty much all. The tighter the clearances the higher oil pressure can be, bit oil flow is reduced. If oil flow is reduced too much, bearings can heat up. Cylinder walls and camshaft lobes are lubricated with oil thrown off the con rod journals between the rod side clearances.
Loose clearances let oil spill out causing low oil pressures. Loose or worn rod bearings with rod side clearances on the wide side of specs flings too much oil on the cylinder walls for the oil rings to control.
So oil flow, pressure and control in an engine is like a dance with your partner, must be co ordinated and in sync.
Unfortunately oil pressure is not controlled by throttle opening or load. On a medium or heavy duty engine that operates much of its time at say 2500 or 3000 RPM and fairly wide throttle openings, that 40PSI may be a little low. In that situation I would like to see 60 PSI to ensure a good oil film keeping metal surfaces from contacting.
A tidbit to consider; where does camshaft bearing supply enter between the bearing and camshaft journal. Of course if that oil hole is below the camshaft, the valvesprings push through the valve train and tend to block the oil flow. Conversely if that supply hole is directly on top of the camshaft, the cam being pushed down tends to open up the clearance at the top, allowing oil to spill out the sides of the bearing. Looking at camshaft rotation from the engine front with chain or belt drive, the camshaft tends to rotate clockwise. The best place to enable a good oil film for the camshaft bearings and restrict oil flow properly, is to have the oil hole in the bearing about the 2:30 to 3:00 position. The oil can flow into the bearing where it can be carried around to float the camshaft off the bearing and properly cool the bearing and journal.
People tend to forget camshaft bearing clearance as a possible oil pressure problem source.
In this instance a person must trust Blueprint Engines to have installed the cam bearings properly.
The Buick/Olds aluminium 215 V8 had the cam bearing oil holes directly above the cam. To correct this a small diameter carbide burr can be used to machine a groove off to the right side as viewed from the front. Then the oil hole is installed rotated 45° to 60°from vertical , to the right. Better oil pressure control and longer cam bearings life. I can not be sure whether Rover corrected that when they bought the rights and tooling from the General. Included as a point to consider.
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