Ok, all you trans guru's apart from the obvious difference between a forward and reverse pat manual valve body, whats the difference, I thought I read somewhere that the reverse pattern was better due to pressures or something, is there a significant difference? why do people use the reverse pattern mostly?
which is better and why forward or reverse pattern mvb
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RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
For drag racing, manual shift gives you more control over shift points; reverse pattern has you pulling the shifter away from neutral as you shift which is a safety feature. Manual shift removes the kickdown lever so that pressure in the valve body is constant. I don't see where anyone would want this if the car is driven on the street.
airwoofer
Drivetrain limit explorer
On the track I hate the RMVB as i am stuck in 3rd at the end of a run. If something breaks I can't slip it into neutral, have to go down through the gears first.
famous bob
mopar misfit
w/ revferse vb , your pulling away from reverse gear. have been people doing hi speed plug check, chopping the throttle-ignition and trying to throw it in neutral to read plugs, and hitting reverse ! his jaws had to be wired back together !
This^^^ I decided to go with a forward pattern for the reasons stated. If for some reason you have to go to neutral, you have to go through 2 and 1 to get there, probably not good at 100 MPH.
As far as accidentally hitting neutral, a good rev limiter will save the day (I hope, lol).
I always heard the reason(s) For reverse pattern were
1. its simply easier to pull the lever backwards when under acceleration
2. you're shifting away from reverse, therefore the catastrophic incident of throwing it into reverse at 100+ is limited.
HOWEVER, i run 10.60's with a forward pattern MVB, and i love it. for the reasons stated above (can go from third to neutral)
if you don't have a reverse lockout on your shifter, you need a new shifter, period. Even the ratchet shifters everyone dogs on can't go into reverse without physically pulling the lever upwards out of drive, and then down into reverse.
1. its simply easier to pull the lever backwards when under acceleration
2. you're shifting away from reverse, therefore the catastrophic incident of throwing it into reverse at 100+ is limited.
HOWEVER, i run 10.60's with a forward pattern MVB, and i love it. for the reasons stated above (can go from third to neutral)
if you don't have a reverse lockout on your shifter, you need a new shifter, period. Even the ratchet shifters everyone dogs on can't go into reverse without physically pulling the lever upwards out of drive, and then down into reverse.
Woods74
Broke Senior
You DO know you can manually shift your regular valve body, right??
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I did and I do. Love it. As an old guy with arthritic problems, I can no longer row a heavy clutch and 4 speed around.
There are a couple of "real" advantages for a MV body.
If this is a vehicle used in winter, like a pickup, and you get on a slippery place, you can drop it from 1 to 2 (or even 3 if you are careful) and use it to "kill" some torque enough to get going.
Having owned a horrid old Ford (the SKUD missile, a 78 LITD II) these transmissions, when placed in "2" were LOCKED in 2nd gear and this is a BIG help in winter, sometimes.
Likewise if you have a little "wild" in you and your engine, and you are trying to be "nice" near "someone who is watching you closely" 2nd gear can sometimes "ease" you away from a stoplight with shall we say, "more smoothness"
Hell, if you are just idling around downtown 25 mph traffic, you can just LEAVE it in 2nd.
"Did you know" that some taxis were set up that way? I think the theory was to avoid extra shifting in downtown traffic.
999yards
Well-Known Member
I too prefer the Forward Pattern. No matter how hard I'm on it I don't shift with enough force to skip gears or ram it all the way to reverse. Biggest reason for me is I'm used to it. I do like the idea of going from third straight into neutral though.
roccodart440
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The RPVB will work with the stock floor shifter because you hit the detent on every shift.
The FBVB allows you to miss a gear or just plain old hit neutral.
So unless you are running the stock floor shifter I can't think of any reason to run a RPVB.
In regards to street use, It's the best of both worlds. I like it. How much do you shift really?
As far as the neutral stuff mentioned. Not an issue with the factory shifter. You can instantly go from 3rd to neutral because there are no detents going down except the reverse detent.
Thanks guys, all good info, seems to be the biggest issue is fear of Neutral select, I to like the ability to go from 3rd to N in case of an issue, I dont slam the shifter but I do make sure my shifter is in VERY good correct working order (Slap Stick shifter)
However, one of the well known trans vendors states that their FPMVB is not to be used with high HP applications, their RPMVB says suits all HP applications, which makes me think there is a mechanical limitation to the FPMVB's over the RP. This is more the question I'm asking, mechanically is one better than the other??
However, one of the well known trans vendors states that their FPMVB is not to be used with high HP applications, their RPMVB says suits all HP applications, which makes me think there is a mechanical limitation to the FPMVB's over the RP. This is more the question I'm asking, mechanically is one better than the other??
Well my 727 has seen hundreds of 10 second passes over the years and Its forward pattern. The only thing I know to watch out for is with, or without engine braking. You want the one without engine braking for street use. It reverts to a neutral setting when you are off the gas. In one with engine braking, its locked solid regardless, and isnt good for street use because when u let off the gas, the engine cant wind down. The extra stress on the driveline is not good.
Went reverse mode, personally. (Cheetah v.b.) I see no advantage ,to staying factory style pattern.
hemi446
Well-Known Member
I have an A&A reverse pattern valve body and the reason for that is the band is applied in first and the sprag is not used so there is no chance of the sprag failing and causing the transmission to over rev and explode on the next run and yes high gear is all the way back and you can't get to neutral but it has not been a problem and the transmission does have braking when you let off the gas. I think there is an explanation of this on A&As website or just call Rick Allison about it at A&A and he will be happy to explan it for you.
Without engine braking is the terminology I know(for street use). The expertise about sprags, and bands is for those better versed than I. If there is some internal benefit about over-revving or such. That's beyond my knowledge.
roccodart440
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All of the issues with hitting neutral are with the factory shifter. The aftermarket stuff either locks it out or requires and additional shift to hit it.
If you want to be able to go from 3rd to neutral with an aftermarket get the FPVB. With a factory shifter it doesn't' matter.
I love when this comes up. Installing a MVB in a 727 all but eliminates the problem of the explosion.......unless you're either an idiot, or simply trying to intentionally destroy your transmission.
The problem comes in when you do your burnout in 1st gear and **** to 2nd and the tires hook on the shift. The shock of traction on the shift is what causes it.
So, when you install a MVB and can do your burnouts properly in 2nd gear, you completely eliminate that problem. No bolt in sprag, no 600 dollar billet drum, no nuthin else is needed.
Just a MVB and the lack of stupidity to burnout in 1st gear.
What the heck do you think a transmission guy is gonna tell you? He will have you buying 1K bucks worth of stuff when the MVB is really all that's needed.
WA71swinger
Well-Known Member
Several guys at the track talked me out of doing 2nd gear burn outs. Telling me to go from first to second during the burnout so that I would not damage my transmission. I thought is was a pretty smooth burnout just starting out in 2nd. Car doesn't have to work very hard in the burnout box. Wonder what John Cope would say about the tranny he built that I'm inching toward the track.
I think those other guys want you to destroy your transmission. 2nd gear burnouts with the 727 is the way to go.
dwire67
Well-Known Member
Do Burn out in 3rd gear only, hit in the water in 2nd gear and do burn out in 3rd gear
RVB here no reason to run stock pattern
RVB here no reason to run stock pattern
stroked340
Well-Known Member
I have the Cheetae rmvb on the column love it..drive it on the street all the time...burnouts start in second get the tires spinning shift to third.
hemi446
Well-Known Member
I thought this was a discussion about valve bodies and which one is being used not a class on doing a burn out
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