65 Dart 273 Engine Rebuild

[PocketAces]

My 65 Dart came with 1969 273 short block. The block has no VIN stamp and has the 65 heads and manifolds. My best guess is that it's a warranty replacement short block.

According to the previous owner, this engine was rebuilt in the early 80's and according to the service receipts that came with the car, there's been around 100,000 miles since the rebuild.

The compression is down around 120 psi and one cylinder has a leaking exhaust valve. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=160882

Since I'm doing a rotissierie restoration on the car it seemed like high time for an engine rebuild. And it wouldn't make sense to sink all that money into a the wrong year block. So that started me on a one year hunt to find a 65 273 block with casting/build dates that would be correct for my car.

After calling or emailing on dozens of craigslist and ebay listings over the course of a year, I was ready to give up when I finally found an eBay auction for 1965 273 engine with an assembly date of 6/8/65. My car's build date was 6/18/65, a difference of only 10 days!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130714640983?item=130714640983

I won the auction for $50. The engine was located in NJ and I live in Los Angeles, but my parents live in Carlisle, PA. Better yet, the Chrysler's at Carlisle was coming up so I sheduled a trip home and I found a FABO member, MoparGod, willing to haul my engine to Carlisle for $50.

$100 dollars invested so far for a matching numbers engine. Not bad.

 

[PocketAces]

I got to my parents house in Carlisle, eager to see my new engine. It was a greasy mess, but just as described with the right casting numbers and dates.

The big question, what's the bore?

Tore the engine down and found that the engine was standard bore. No numbers stamped on the tops of the pistons and a set of calipers on the ridge showed standard bore of 3.625". I would have been happy if it was only .030" over. I never dreamed it would be standard bore. Not only that, but the ridge is not bad at all.

 

[PocketAces]

Since it's not cheap to ship an engine across country, I decided to have the engine hot tanked and magnafluxed in PA to make sure it's not cracked.

With the help of my Uncle Dan, tore everything down. Dan cut himself pretty good removing one of the drain plugs and needed 7 stitches. But he got them all out. Lots of carbon, lot's of sludge and the water jacket was half full of rust powder. But the bearings all looked good as did the pistons and bores.

Took the heads and bare block to LDS Machine in Newville PA to be hot tanked and magnafluxed. Despite the name, they're not Mormons, they're Mennonites. But they do good work at a good price. My uncle Dan runs a diesel repair shop and he uses them for parts and machine work. I paid $120 to have the block and heads tanked an magnafluxed.

No cracks and a quick check of the bores revealed about .005" of wear. Amazing.

 

[PocketAces]

In order to ship the engine, it made sense to put it back together so I could get everything on one pallet. So I put the dirty crank, rods, pistons and oil pump into my nice clean block. Bolted the heads back on. Cleaned most of the grease off the intake and oil pan and put those on too. Bolted on the valve covers I bought at the Carlisle show. All the valves, springs and keepers went into a plastic mayonaise jar along with the some assorted bolts and parts.

Found a quarter pallet the perfect size and built an engine stand out of some old scrap porch railing to secure the engine to the pallet. That's my dad who did the welding for me 1 month after surgery to fix a broken neck. It's hard to keep a good man down.

Lag bolted the stand to the pallet and stretch wrapped the whole thing.

My friend Tom runs a furniture factory in PA and got me a great deal on shpping. $248 for shipping from the YRC terminal in Carlisle to L&R Engines in Santa Fe Springs, CA.

$348 total invested to get my numbers matching engine to Los Angeles.

 

[OldmanRick]

You put a lot of work into getting that engine and shipping it 3k miles too.
Congrats. When you get it home be sure to keep us updated. And thanks for the pics, we love pics.......

 

[BillGrissom]

Interesting story. Finding affordable pistons will be the challenge. I got a set of 0.030" std compression for $200 on ebay a year ago. Once in a blue moon, you see new HiPo pistons (like Badger) on ebay, but sometimes just one bank. If you go HiPo, do some reading since I think the left and right bank ones differ. Also, check that your oil pan is correct. I recall reading that early A's had a special indent on the side for the steering clearance. Good luck with your build.

I got a 65 273 as a spare for my 65 Dart locally off craigslist for $100. It was a HiPo, but the pistons were rusted tight and messed up a few beating them out. The intake and valve covers were also missing, so nothing HiPo left. I don't know if I'll ever use it, but could get my money back by selling just the forged crank and adj. rockers.

 

[PocketAces]

So now that the engine is on it's way to California, time to start planning the build. My car was originally a 2 bbl, but it's really tempting to have a little fun. I'm not trying to build a screamer or anything, but I would like to spice things up a little bit.

I really enjoyed ToolManMike's build thread and plan to steal many ideas from him. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94343

I would like the compression ratio to be somewhere between 9:1 to 9.5:1. My limited research has not turned up any piston options other than stock flat tops and the domed pistons from Egge. ToolManMike got 9.22:1 with Egge domed pistons, .030 over bore, a fat perma torque blue head gasket and .030 milled off the heads.

I contacted Egge and couldn't get any useful information about expected CR from those pistons. They can't even tell me the dome volume which I would need in order to use a compression ratio calculator. I did find this press release on their domed pistons which says to expect 9:1 with a stock bore. Pretty weird considering they list those pistons as 10.25:1. http://www.fastlaneresearch.com/industry_press_releases_october1.html

The builder I plan to use, L&R engines in Santa Fe Springs knows the people at Egge really well and he said he would see what he could find out. http://www.lnrengine.com/

I also have a set of 8 used TRW L2222N pistons. They're .040" over so they might be bigger than I need. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=192321

If anyone knows where to get a set of zero deck flat tops for a 273, let me know. A lighter weight Edelbrock D4B would be nice to have too, but those are hard to find.

I plan to also follow ToolManMike's lead by using the Isky E-4 cam. I also like the cam chain tensioner and windage tray he added.

Along the way I've collected a stock four barrel intake, the chrome unsilenced air cleaner, a set of Commando valve covers and a 500 CFM AFB carb (correct number and date). http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=186423

All of these are easy bolt-ons so I can quickly switch over from the original 2 bbl setup to commando mode. I wonder how a commando motor with a bigger cam will run with a 2 bbl carb?

 

[CultClassik]

I wouldn't bother with trying a high perf setup and using that baby 2 bbl carb (then again, that's a tiny engine but still).

It only took me 2 months of letting the original 273 2bbl sit in my garage for me to decide I didn't feel bad enough about killing the matching numbers factor to keep it. Unless it's a rare car, it's not going to matter much but - nice work and I think it will be very cool!

 

[65dartcharger]

So now that the engine is on it's way to California, time to start planning the build. My car was originally a 2 bbl, but it's really tempting to have a little fun. I'm not trying to build a screamer or anything, but I would like to spice things up a little bit.

I really enjoyed ToolManMike's build thread and plan to steal many ideas from him. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=94343

I would like the compression ratio to be somewhere between 9:1 to 9.5:1. My limited research has not turned up any piston options other than stock flat tops and the domed pistons from Egge. ToolManMike got 9.22:1 with Egge domed pistons, .030 over bore, a fat perma torque blue head gasket and .030 milled off the heads.

I contacted Egge and couldn't get any useful information about expected CR from those pistons. They can't even tell me the dome volume which I would need in order to use a compression ratio calculator. I did find this press release on their domed pistons which says to expect 9:1 with a stock bore. Pretty weird considering they list those pistons as 10.25:1. http://www.fastlaneresearch.com/industry_press_releases_october1.html

The builder I plan to use, L&R engines in Santa Fe Springs knows the people at Egge really well and he said he would see what he could find out. http://www.lnrengine.com/

I also have a set of 8 used TRW L2222N pistons. They're .040" over so they might be bigger than I need. http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=192321

If anyone knows where to get a set of zero deck flat tops for a 273, let me know. A lighter weight Edelbrock D4B would be nice to have too, but those are hard to find.

I plan to also follow ToolManMike's lead by using the Isky E-4 cam. I also like the cam chain tensioner and windage tray he added.

Along the way I've collected a stock four barrel intake, the chrome unsilenced air cleaner, a set of Commando valve covers and a 500 CFM AFB carb (correct number and date). http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=186423

All of these are easy bolt-ons so I can quickly switch over from the original 2 bbl setup to commando mode. I wonder how a commando motor with a bigger cam will run with a 2 bbl carb?

Would a set of NOS standard bore pistons be of interest for your engine? Brand new still in orginal box!

 

[PocketAces]

Would a set of NOS standard bore pistons be of interest for your engine? Brand new still in orginal box!

I don't know yet whether the engine will require boring. I'll let you know once the machinist gets it measured.

If these are Commando pistons, it would be great to compare them to the Egge domed pistons. ToolManMike got way less compression with the Egge's. It would be nice to understand whether/how they differ from the factory domed pistons. Some closeup pictures and measurements of the height from the wrist pin to the bottom and top of the dome might help. Maybe we can get somebody from Egge to do the same.

I don't want 10.5:1 compression. If the Egge's really are lower compression height or a smaller dome, they might be ideal for me.

 

[65dartcharger]

I don't know yet whether the engine will require boring. I'll let you know once the machinist gets it measured.

If these are Commando pistons, it would be great to compare them to the Egge domed pistons. ToolManMike got way less compression with the Egge's. It would be nice to understand whether/how they differ from the factory domed pistons. Some closeup pictures and measurements of the height from the wrist pin to the bottom and top of the dome might help. Maybe we can get somebody from Egge to do the same.

I don't want 10.5:1 compression. If the Egge's really are lower compression height or a smaller dome, they might be ideal for me.

For my engine I bought a set of 10,5 pistons from Egge and they were excellent. I compared them with the standard one and everything was identical. The ones I have are standard 8,8 I think it is. I can measure them for you tomorrow with pictures too.

 

[seabee]

Subscribed. I just finished my 273 rebuild and will hopefully have the kickdown linkage adjusted right to post some vids etc. tomorrow. A member on here (1WildandCrazyguy) Justin ported the heads and did a great job. He got the #315 heads of mine to flow 201-205cfm @ .450.

 

[C130 Chief]

I would be highly surprised if the Egge "10.5" pistons actually give you anything close to 1.5 as a final compression ratio. With a modern .043 composition head gasket, and no more than a light surfacing cut on the heads, you'll probably end up with mid 9's. The advertized compression ratio was usually a bit optimistic.

BTW Egge uses TRW part #'s and patterns for their pistons, so you'd be getting L2222 slugs.

 

[65dartcharger]

I would be highly surprised if the Egge "10.5" pistons actually give you anything close to 1.5 as a final compression ratio. With a modern .043 composition head gasket, and no more than a light surfacing cut on the heads, you'll probably end up with mid 9's. The advertized compression ratio was usually a bit optimistic.

BTW Egge uses TRW part #'s and patterns for their pistons, so you'd be getting L2222 slugs.

It was the same height as the istons in the engine and I used an NOS cylinger head gasket. But you might be right. It might be optimistic, but in that case it was so from the factory.

 

[Inspector71]

Years ago I bought a 66 Valiant from an acquaintance. The car had a 273 2-barrel. He put a 4-barrel intake and other minor mods on the car. I remember him racing several Fords, 289 4 barrels, and 283 4-barrel Chevies. He won every race and the car was almost stock. I bought it and was driving it back to Churchville, north of Baltimore where I lived, and had a guy in a Corvette trying to race me on highway 70. What a joke. They sent a Corvette to challenge that big mean nasty 273...

 

[jerry6]

What a great find , and price ! Good luck with the build , the 273 is a snappy little v-8 . I remember my mother would fry the tires with the 273 4 bbl if I pissed her off while driving , later the 318 darts were not as peppy You guys now have me eyeing a 63 vert down the street . Can you post a few pics of the car ? And keep the thread going with the build (or start a new one ) , can't wait to see and hear the finished product .

 

[PocketAces]

I would be highly surprised if the Egge "10.5" pistons actually give you anything close to 1.5 as a final compression ratio. With a modern .043 composition head gasket, and no more than a light surfacing cut on the heads, you'll probably end up with mid 9's. The advertized compression ratio was usually a bit optimistic.

BTW Egge uses TRW part #'s and patterns for their pistons, so you'd be getting L2222 slugs.

Mid 9's would be perfect. Sounds like domed Egge pistons are the way to go. I'd like to be able to run regular or mid-grade gas (call me cheap). So you think the .040 over TRW L2222N's I have are pretty much identical to the Egge's?

I think this engine will clean up with way less than .040 over and I can't see boring more than required just to save some money on pistons.

 

[PocketAces]

Years ago I bought a 66 Valiant from an acquaintance. The car had a 273 2-barrel. He put a 4-barrel intake and other minor mods on the car. I remember him racing several Fords, 289 4 barrels, and 283 4-barrel Chevies. He won every race and the car was almost stock. I bought it and was driving it back to Churchville, north of Baltimore where I lived, and had a guy in a Corvette trying to race me on highway 70. What a joke. They sent a Corvette to challenge that big mean nasty 273...

So that would be with the flat pistons and the stock cam?

 

[PocketAces]

For my engine I bought a set of 10,5 pistons from Egge and they were excellent. I compared them with the standard one and everything was identical. The ones I have are standard 8,8 I think it is. I can measure them for you tomorrow with pictures too.

So the Egge's have the same dome volume and compression height as the factory domed pistons? Did you measure or just eyeball it?

I heard that it's common practice to reduce the compression height of oversized pistons to compensate for increased area and maintain the factory compression ratio. The example given to me was that a .030 over piston would have compression height reduced by .030 to compensate.

So I think the compression height would have to be measured, you couldn't just eyeball it.

 

[PocketAces]

Can you post a few pics of the car ? And keep the thread going with the build (or start a new one ) , can't wait to see and hear the finished product .

Here's the car it's going into.

 

[seabee]

Cool Dart! You taking that to Escondido this Friday?

 

[PocketAces]

Cool Dart! You taking that to Escondido this Friday?

I don't think I'll be finished welding in the new floor pan until Saturday.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1969514286#post1969514286

 

[jerry6]

Here's the car it's going into.

Wow !!! Really nice , those wheels are perfect for the car . Going to be killer with that 273 . I'm really getting into the 2nd gen Darts , these are 2nd gen right ? 1st gen were full size boats , or am I thinking of another model ?

 

[gtmopar]

I've got a ton of original hi po 273 65 conv parts that I'm not using anymore that I'm going to sell. Got all the trim aside from the trim around the top I'm using and all of the motor pieces. My dart is going all pro touring so I've got a lot of original stuff I have no use for. Let me know. Nice to see another 65 conv getting restored. Good luck!

 

[gtmopar]

Early on in the build