Are there any real Mopar machinests left ???

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The Shocker

The Shocker

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During the winter i decided to upgrade the cam in my Bracket car .I pulled the W2 heads to have the springs set up for the new cam .I also ported them while they were off and figured after 5 seasons a fresh valve job would be a good idea as well.The guy i brought them to for the head work has been at this machine shop since the late 60's and assured me he could do Mopar stuff..He told me that 6 of the intake valves were a little chewed up on the lock grooves and a new set of intakes would be a good idea.I agreed.He ordered and installed a new set of Ferrera stainless intakes to go with the Milodon exhausts.After a few weeks he called and told me they were done.Went to pick them up and all looked good at a quick glance.After a closer inspection when i got them home , i noticed that the valve stems on the intakes were higher than the exhausts (alot).Threw a straight edge across the tips on one head and it looked like a camshaft.Brought the heads right back to him to complain about it and he and his two machinests told me that it didnt matter that the valve stems were different heights from intake to exahust.I assured him that with shaft type roller rockers it was a huge deal that the stems be all the same height ,as the rocker tips wouldnt contact the valve tips in the same place with a .070 height difference from valve to valve.I told him that the valves he installed were too long and that it wouldnt work .He said he would make it alright but asked me to pay for the incorrect valves he intalled.I refused and told him it was his fault .Im a little worried about the rest of the work he did now .I cant believe that a guy that calls him self a "race motor builder" would think this was okay on a motor that is gunna be turning 7000 rpm.The guy is old enough to be my Grandfather and been doing machine work on motors since before i was born .Since he has now cut the new valves for the seats Ferrera wont take them back ,so he is gunna have to eat them as im not paying for his mistake .Im into rebuilding the heads for almost $800 now with the new springs ,intake valves ,retainers ,locks ,and a .006 resurfacing job (that i dont think was needed and didnt ask for) .This guy builds Chevys for dirt trackers ,but is all i have here local .Obviously the man has no expierence with shaft rockers system geomotry ...
 
The guy probably builds to Chevy specs. Pedestal rockers and all. Sound like a case of " I build Chevy's, I should be able to work on a Mopar, right?" So what are your options? Cut the stems down to height or cut to blueprint and install all new seats at correct depth? Ouch...
 
pishta said:
The guy probably builds to Chevy specs. Pedestal rockers and all. Sound like a case of " I build Chevy's, I should be able to work on a Mopar, right?" So what are your options? Cut the stems down to height or cut to blueprint and install all new seats at correct depth? Ouch...
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At first i thought of cutting down the stems on the new valves to the height of the exhausts,but there is not enough meat .The lock grooves will be right on the ends at that point,and i dont think the 10 degree retainers would work anyway for the spring height .He tried to get slick and asked me to buy a new set of exhaust valves to match the height of the intakes he installed.I refused that as well.Why should i replace perfectly good Mildon stainless exhaust valves that are already freshly reground and installed ,just to keep him from having to eat the intake valves he ordered that are too long ? The problem is he didnt think the different heights would be a problem from the get go (he is used to pedestal type Chevys which are more forgiving on stem heights from valve to valve),and didnt bother to measure the overall length of the valves he ordered .He said he would order the correct length valves rom Milodon and install them.The part that amazes me is that he thought the valve stem heights were unimportant on shaft rockers...
 
Make sure you question him on the installed height of the springs too, this is very important to make sure your spring preassure is correct on the seat, as well as open.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Make sure you question him on the installed height of the springs too, this is very important to make sure your spring preassure is correct on the seat, as well as open.
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The cam calls for 1.750 installed height and he got that part right.Although he had to use a .050 shim on the new comp double springs to accomplish this ,or so he told me ...
 
The shim deal is pretty normal, you really need something there anyway, I dont like the idea of the spring sitting directly on the cast iron, but it probally doesnt make any differance.
 
Thats why we are a MOPAR ONLY SHOP! We dont build anything and everything, we only do MOPAR! I hear this story all the time, and I see some messed up stuff from these shops that say"We do Mopars". Well they may "do" them, but they dont know crap about how the Mopar works. Anyone can build a SBC, I can do them with my eyes closed, but I Dont. I love my Mopars and thats all I'll do.
 
Mopar engines are a different animal, worked at an engine shop in phoenix that mainly did fords and chevys but rarely mopars. They would have me rebuild mopars because they didnt like building those engines because it was to complex for them or somthing. lol. Frkn cheby is a piece of cake! not even a challenge for me to build and fords! dont get me started on fords!
I would definetly watch out on his work and even check installed height yourself if you know how to do that. And even ask about spring pressures too.
 
.............I have always asked 101 questions b4 i let any1 touch my parts..........some guys get pissed, but its my hard earned cash that there spending 4 me and if im not satisfied with their answers i look elsewhere............kim............
 
A good machinist can do any manufacturer properly. Because if they don't "know", thye go find out. What you got was a sloppy valve job - shaft, pedestal, or stud type son't matter if the guy's an idiot... And if this guy's looking at stud maount rockers and thinking they can be all over, he's an idiot.
 
if any engine is complex its certainly not a mopar i second mopers thoughts. because someone says there good at being a machinist or any other profession does not mean there good.no matter the time that they have been doing it.you have just happened to find one of the true stupid and sloppy ones. publish the shop name so nobody else including cheby nuckles heads dont make the same fall.
 
I ran into a similar situation when I took my factory roller LA block to get the machine work done. We were discussing the build and he kept referencing how that like a sbc. After he hot tanked it, I picked up my block and went somewhere else. I could tell that he had never even touched an sbm.
 
Any engine builder/machinist worth a $hit will research an engine build, especially if they are not used to building that type of engine.
Data from 23 years of engine building helps too!!
 
Man ,you guys are making me feel worse ,lol .Unfortunatley im stuck with this Clown at this point to finish the job, but he wont ever see me in his doorway again after this.He originally qouted me about $200 for the labor ,but after having problems setting the spring height correctly ,and having to order the springs twice,another set of shims ,etc, i think he felt like $200 was not enough $$ ,so he did a quick resurfacing job to get sum more $$ out of me for labor.He charged me $50 per head to surface them .006 even though i didnt ask him to.Now since he is gunna have to regrind new valves for the intakes on both heads ,and eat the other ones he bought he just beat himself out of the labor .I will look everything over with a magnifing glass when i pick them up this time for sure .I really wanted to jump his case bad ,but the last thing i want is to have the guy pi$$ed off at me while he is making this right ,so i bit my tongue ...
 
Just because he's old don't mean he knows his chit. I've ran into that with a lot of guys that just because they have gray hair doesn't mean they are good at their craft. You want a C student surgeon doing surgery on your wife or kid?
 
gtmopar said:
Just because he's old don't mean he knows his chit. I've ran into that with a lot of guys that just because they have gray hair doesn't mean they are good at their craft. You want a C student surgeon doing surgery on your wife or kid?
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I agree with you on the stupidity knows no age thing .Im in my 30's and this man is in his mid 60's ,but i had to give him a crash course about how rocker tips "scrub" on valve stem tips ,and i consider myself a novice with Mopars .As a former Chevy and Ford racer myself ,this is the first Mopar i have messed with or even owned in my life.I figured with over 40 years of expierence in Automotive Machine he would have worked on a SBM head...
 
Yea I hear ya man. Hopefully things work out. Really like your ride and enjoy watching your videos. Good luck bro.
 
gtmopar said:
Just because he's old don't mean he knows his chit. I've ran into that with a lot of guys that just because they have gray hair doesn't mean they are good at their craft. You want a C student surgeon doing surgery on your wife or kid?
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Aint that the truth...

I recently got introduced to an older gentlemen that was supposedly "an old racer from the '60s". I thought I was in for some cool racing stories, but all he spewed was alot of the same ignorant crap I've heard many times before. One thing he tried to tell me that I just couldn't let slide went something like this: "Small blocks make more horsepower than big blocks, due to the shorter stroke, and will always beat em off the line."

After 10 minutes of trying to reason with him and talk about facts and logic, I had to thank him for a nice talk and walk away.
 
gtmopar said:
Yea I hear ya man. Hopefully things work out. Really like your ride and enjoy watching your videos. Good luck bro.
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Thanks for the compliment on my Dart and my videos.I should have the heads back late this week .Im anxious to get them back on and try it out with the new cam and head work ...
 
I spent 2 weeks just looking for a guy who knew Mopars well. I ended up finding a great machinist who did an excellent job. He's even rebuilt numerous A engines. He definitely was great and well priced
 
Holy ****. I would not run those heads no way no how without sending them out to have them looked over and done correctly, no matter WHAT THE COST. The guy is probably pissed that you caught his shitty work. Just think if he used the wrong retainers on the valves too and you drop one at 7K RPM??. Your gunna blow your whole engine up if he did and that will be his revenge..............I wouldn't trust his work as far as you could throw those heads which is not that far at all.

What if the springs aren't set up correctly either. Wrong pressures??

This sounds pretty familiar....... Was it BJR??
 
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