SS/B Barracuda project

[hemicop]

Stefan, I fully get where you're coming from. The fact is, these cars were never race-ready from the factory. Oh sure, they had all the good stuff, but were only a jumping-off point for the racers. As a result, the cars were little more than a big motor stuffed into a small car using baseline parts, like the A100 seats. If you're going for an "as raced" or "day 2" set-up, from say, 1969-1970 now you're talking cool-cans, torque straps, clamped S/S springs,etc. It wasn't until mid/late '71 or so that alot of these cars moved into Modified Production or Gas classes & they really started getting cut-up.
So I guess you need to decide: do you want your car "as shipped", "day 2" or later M/P-S/S configuration. In any event I'm sure it'll be cool. Please, keep us posted...........

 

[skypower]

I can't wait to see where this is going.

 

[SSing]

I think I kinda know what you mean.

I'm not much of a purist..... but I like Hemi's in A bodies too....but more of the flat hold look....like a stocker.

Mopar to ya'
Denny

I see what you mean... and that silver/red combo... well awesome is just the middle name for you "car". And the entire build of cause. As a matter of fact Dusters are one off my favorites too. In ´75 or something I had a ´71 340 4-speed. Had been shipped to Germany by a NATO-soldier, and found its way to Sweden. Even had a Sox&Martin sticker on it... One of them cars you wished you never had got rid of. Well we all have them... and manage only by finding new projects to distract our memories...

 

[HemiDenny]

Thanks.....what makes all these builds so much fun to me is that are all different.

 

[SSing]

Stefan, I fully get where you're coming from. The fact is, these cars were never race-ready from the factory. Oh sure, they had all the good stuff, but were only a jumping-off point for the racers. As a result, the cars were little more than a big motor stuffed into a small car using baseline parts, like the A100 seats. If you're going for an "as raced" or "day 2" set-up, from say, 1969-1970 now you're talking cool-cans, torque straps, clamped S/S springs,etc. It wasn't until mid/late '71 or so that alot of these cars moved into Modified Production or Gas classes & they really started getting cut-up.
So I guess you need to decide: do you want your car "as shipped", "day 2" or later M/P-S/S configuration. In any event I'm sure it'll be cool. Please, keep us posted...........

Yes, if you mean I come from Sweden you are right. I don´t have the in deep knowledge that some of you guys have. That´s why I´m here in the first place. But only partly... I know pretty well how these cars came from Hurst, and how they have change through the years.
I was hoping my first post would be clear enough. I stated "as campaigned in´68-69" ´well aware of what happened to some of the cars in 1970 and later through the years.

Now you mention clamps. Good info, I did not know that. This are what I call in deep info. But it is a tight fit in there. Is it they had moved the springs inboard to the frame rails in ´69 up date? Or maybe they did when preparing for the 1968 season???

So leave the ´70 up cars out of my project. As interesting they are, it would bee impossible for me to decide what to do and what not to do with my project.

Thank you hemicop, you have added one small little detail. Now I what all the rest of them.

For the last time ;)
Think a 1968 4-speed Hemi Barracuda as delivered from Hurst. Add to that one year of work in terms of reinforcement to the body and such added equipment and what ever the racers had done to his car.

THINK 1969 NHRA SPRINGNATIONALS SS/B BARRACUDA WANNABEE!!!!

Now I´m afraid there are only a few of you guys who can help me, but please step forward!
Your contribution will add to a piece of American Racing History...

And when I am done you´r gonna nod with a grin on your face...

Thank You
Stefan

 

[sireland67]

This sounds like a fun project.

 

[SSing]

This sounds like a fun project.

yes thanks, please join us...

 

[SSing]

I can't wait to see where this is going.

Yes thanks, and fill me in with ever little detail you might have ;)

 

[hemicop]

Stefan I sure don't mean to question your intelligience on these cars. You probably know as much or more than 95-99 % of the Mopar enthusiasts regarding these cars. But in case you didn't know, and few young guys don't, back then you couldn't tub a car for S/S and tha class had a tire width limitation. Now on the 'cudas it wasn't much of an issue but on the Darts they had to cut up the sheetmetal to allow for the tires. There was nothing mentioned in the rules that the suspension couldn't be moved, only that it had to be "stock". Mopar, it's its creative minds decided to simply move the springs in 3ins. (hence the factory kits) to permit the larger tires & still remain within the rules. As horsepower increased they discovered the S/S springs were really only good for handling 650-700 hp or so, so the racers began clamping the front of the leaf springs to limit spring separation & body lift. This trick is still used to today by many street/strip cars of all makes but seems to be most popular among Mopars.
As an aside to all this, do you have the Mopar suspension book? It was published quite some time ago & I believe is still availible. Alot of the info is kinda old, but hey, that's what you're working on!

Oh, almost forgot--- the spring relocation was on the S/S cars only

 

[sireland67]

yes thanks, please join us...

I am here brother and anticipating your progress.
Probably a lot more people watching than posting.

 

[SSing]

Stefan I sure don't mean to question your intelligience on these cars. You probably know as much or more than 95-99 % of the Mopar enthusiasts regarding these cars. But in case you didn't know, and few young guys don't, back then you couldn't tub a car for S/S and tha class had a tire width limitation. Now on the 'cudas it wasn't much of an issue but on the Darts they had to cut up the sheetmetal to allow for the tires. There was nothing mentioned in the rules that the suspension couldn't be moved, only that it had to be "stock". Mopar, it's its creative minds decided to simply move the springs in 3ins. (hence the factory kits) to permit the larger tires & still remain within the rules. As horsepower increased they discovered the S/S springs were really only good for handling 650-700 hp or so, so the racers began clamping the front of the leaf springs to limit spring separation & body lift. This trick is still used to today by many street/strip cars of all makes but seems to be most popular among Mopars.
As an aside to all this, do you have the Mopar suspension book? It was published quite some time ago & I believe is still availible. Alot of the info is kinda old, but hey, that's what you're working on!
Oh, almost forgot--- the spring relocation was on the S/S cars only

Thank you hemicop, and no offence...
Well I have the 1979 Direct Connection Racing Manuals, in witch one bulletin covers the rear suspensions. I will check this chapter out thoroughly

 

[autoxcuda]

...

THINK 1969 NHRA SPRINGNATIONALS SS/B BARRACUDA WANNABEE!!!!

...

Ok, that's clear and definitive and has focus.

What would make a car like that stand out would be attention to detail on the aftermarket periphery items: rims, tires, tach, gauges, coil, plug wires...

Of course every car was a different, but I would pick and combine items that stand out visually: chrome valve covers, mechanical tach, cool can,

 

[SSing]

Ok, that's clear and definitive and has focus.

What would make a car like that stand out would be attention to detail on the aftermarket periphery items: rims, tires, tach, gauges, coil, plug wires...

Of course every car was a different, but I would pick and combine items that stand out visually: chrome valve covers, mechanical tach, cool can,

Now we are talking autoxcuda, great stuff...

 

[autoxcuda]

These Fenton rims are different and really cool.

 

[hemicop]

Greg did a clone of Landy's Dart. You may want to check with him.....

 

[SSing]

These Fenton rims are different and really cool.

Funny you chose Bill Bagshaw´s Dart, This was the very first ´68 Super Stocker I saw back than. It was a picture in black and white, and under line was something about the Dart being very popular in the Super Stock category. It did not say the Dart ran a Hemi, Possibly it stated Bill Bagshaw drove it. (Swedish car magazine) I used the picture as a template for my Dart build in 1979. Not quiet good, but not half bad either

Cragar SS I think is gonna be my choice, but yes those Fenton are more cool old school...

 

[ssba]

Ok, that's clear and definitive and has focus.

What would make a car like that stand out would be attention to detail on the aftermarket periphery items: rims, tires, tach, gauges, coil, plug wires...

Of course every car was a different, but I would pick and combine items that stand out visually: chrome valve covers, mechanical tach, cool can,

This is key to your 69 era build plan. Study old photos such as posted above. Landys dart
was also over engine photographed as a great reference.
Notice things that have been mentioned above and the milodon
dual line spacer and pump cover. The aluminum tube from the spacer.
These parts or Lee Smith parts were popular. The pans were 1 1/2" deeper than
the SS pans offered today and had a round tube for the steering linkage to pass thru
rather than rectangular. Also had a different swinging pick up than what is available
today that works with the extra deep pans.
Some racers built their own pans. The shifter handles used are long discontinued
as well as the sandwich style reverse lock out.
The cars also used a cable driven mechanical rev limiter
that required a splitter

 

[ssba]

Here is a visual of a collection of the cable driven tachometers, rev limiters
and dual drive splitters that were used back in 69 SS/B and SS/BA by the best
like Landy, Sox & Martin ect....
Some of these items can be difficult to find today.
The distributors arn't as hard to find and are not generally
wanted for most Hemi builds today. MSD stuff is more valuable
to most builders. The original distributors are heavy cast iron but
of very good quality and precise. I feel they remain precise or last
longer than the lightweight MSDs of today. Multi spark can help to
smooth a race engine at low rpms but has no advantage over a
properly set up vintage prestolite ignition at racing rpms. The transistorized
Ignitions have a very good spark when fed the correct voltage and
used with the proper coil. I guess what I am saying is they have no trouble
lighting a high compression race Hemi and there is no need to run a hidden msd
system.

 

[ssba]

Here is the correct aluminum water pump housing.
Notice it has two casting #s. One is for the iron housing and
the second is for the aluminum. This was used on the 65 race
hemis also. This part is different from the aluminum housing
Mopar Performance sells today as it has the old style alternator
mounting boss only and has XX cast on the lower left.
The second picture shows how the aluminum alternator bracket
fits.
These can still be found if you know what to look for. I have
bought them from guys that didn't know their significance as a race Hemi
only part.
Stefan your thread could turn into a recipe card for building a SS/B if we can get enough
guys to post. As far as I know the water pump itself was still iron. The aluminum
units you see in the pictures are modern MP offerings.

 

[SSing]

Here is a visual of a collection of the cable driven tachometers, rev limiters
and dual drive splitters that were used back in 69 SS/B and SS/BA by the best
like Landy, Sox & Martin ect....
Some of these items can be difficult to find today.
The distributors arn't as hard to find and are not generally
wanted for most Hemi builds today. MSD stuff is more valuable
to most builders. The original distributors are heavy cast iron but
of very good quality and precise. I feel they remain precise or last
longer than the lightweight MSDs of today. Multi spark can help to
smooth a race engine at low rpms but has no advantage over a
properly set up vintage prestolite ignition at racing rpms. The transistorized
Ignitions have a very good spark when fed the correct voltage and
used with the proper coil. I guess what I am saying is they have no trouble
lighting a high compression race Hemi and there is no need to run a hidden msd
system.

Thanks ssba, very good info there.
I have manage to find a rev limiter, and a dual drive splitter. Cables and tachometer should be easier to find, so I am well on my way here I think. I have had second thoughts about using the ignition system used on these car, but just made up my mind...

 

[ssba]

As for the milodon stuff first is the older 9 1/2" sump pan with the round steering link
pass thru tube. I have talked to milodon about this pan and they do not have any info,
part #s or recollection of this pan or pickup. They apparently didn't save old outdated
information. This pan uses the pictured lower swinging pickup with the taller rudder.
It has a silver soldered screen on the bottom of the angle cut tube.
The other pictured pan is what they sell today. These super stock pans are 8" deep
and use the pickup that is sitting on the pan for a comparison.
The dual line spacers and pump covers I have shown both sides so you can get an idea of how oil travels thru them. Also shown is the filter adaptor and a vintage dual filter mounting bracket
some racer mounted a gauge into one of the fittings. These filter adaptors mount or are plumbed to the pump cover.

 

[SSing]

Here is the correct aluminum water pump housing.
Notice it has two casting #s. One is for the iron housing and
the second is for the aluminum. This was used on the 65 race
hemis also. This part is different from the aluminum housing
Mopar Performance sells today as it has the old style alternator
mounting boss only and has XX cast on the lower left.
The second picture shows how the aluminum alternator bracket
fits.
These can still be found if you know what to look for. I have
bought them from guys that didn't know their significance as a race Hemi
only part.
Stefan your thread could turn into a recipe card for building a SS/B if we can get enough
guys to post. As far as I know the water pump itself was still iron. The aluminum
units you see in the pictures are modern MP offerings.

I have the correct housing, and a cast iron center section with "TOP" and the number 30733 cast in to it. Also has a draining hole in the bottom. We have to see if I can use that one...
This is the hand on info I was hoping for... Thanks ssba

 

[SSing]

As for the milodon stuff first is the older 9 1/2" sump pan with the round steering link
pass thru tube. I have talked to milodon about this pan and they do not have any info,
part #s or recollection of this pan or pickup. They apparently didn't save old outdated
information. This pan uses the pictured lower swinging pickup with the taller rudder.
It has a silver soldered screen on the bottom of the angle cut tube.
The other pictured pan is what they sell today. These super stock pans are 8" deep
and use the pickup that is sitting on the pan for a comparison.
The dual line spacers and pump covers I have shown both sides so you can get an idea of how oil travels thru them. Also shown is the filter adaptor and a vintage dual filter mounting bracket
some racer mounted a gauge into one of the fittings. These filter adaptors mount or are plumbed to the pump cover.

Thanks...
Would an 8 qt oil pan, and a single system be correct?

 

[ssba]

This is the best I could come up with on the hurst shifter stuff.
The roll control kits you see are both new and used. Hard stuff
to get sometimes. The paperwork is dated 68 on one kit 69 on the
other two kits. Other than the instructions they are all the same.
The shifter handle is a tough one to determine and I don't have much for you.
This picture is the best I got from a current owner. I have found they can be mistaken
sometimes as what was correct so take that into consideration. If it turns out to be not correct
It is a very close likeness.
As you know I am building my car as updated to A/MP and I had no need to
research some parts like this as mine will use the Ram Rod inline shifter as
used from 71 and up. I believe you know all about the reverse loc out so I won't
cover that.

 

[SSing]

This is the best I could come up with on the hurst shifter stuff.
The roll control kits you see are both new and used. Hard stuff
to get sometimes. The paperwork is dated 68 on one kit 69 on the
other two kits. Other than the instructions they are all the same.
The shifter handle is a tough one to determine and I don't have much for you.
This picture is the best I got from a current owner. I have found they can be mistaken
sometimes as what was correct so take that into consideration. If it turns out to be not correct
It is a very close likeness.
As you know I am building my car as updated to A/MP and I had no need to
research some parts like this as mine will use the Ram Rod inline shifter as
used from 71 and up. I believe you know all about the reverse loc out so I won't
cover that.

The roll control kit of cause is a must. Thanks for reminding me.
As for the shifter handle, I think the one in the Authenticity Guide is the best choice.