2009+ 5.7 Hemi Eagle

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Monte Smith over on Moparts assures me that Holley is working on vvt with the hp and dominator systems. But he doesn't know when they will have it figured out. I also saw something to that effect on the Holley site as well. Sure you could go with modern muscle or Hotwire to make use of vvt but the Holley dominator is just a better value to a guy like me who plans on going turbo in the future. A stock ecu just can't compare in capabilities and features. I'm in no hurry. Ill just wait on Holley.

Hopefully FAST figures out what the deal is on their XIM problems. Otherwise it's a real pain in the *** to run the MSD.

What gets me is why nobody has stepped up yet with a heavy duty timing set for the vvt engines that just does away with the phaser all together and locks the cam timing in. I'd say there is a real demand for such a product. All us vvt guys are stuck with is the stock chains that are quite dainty looking. Even the recall replacements look weak.

I'd like to see someone get these engines sorted out. It would help if the aftermarket would get with it. Chrysler has already been making the vvt as long as it made the earlier models. And it doesn't look like its going away anytime soon. Pretty soon these will be everywhere in the wrecking yards and the non vvt's will dry up. We'll get there. In time.

Cam phaser eliminator.

Seems to be on backorder, but at least they exist.

http://www.shophemi.com/p-2568-comp-vvt-cam-phaser-limiter-kit-for-hemi-engines.aspx

Also pure curiosity, but I wonder if the new 6.2L Hellcat Hemi's timing chain setup is any stronger???... and if it is, would it be interchangeable on the 2009 and later 5.7L motors and the 392 Hemi.

Finally, I would assume (always dangerous) that you could setup Megasquirt. You could use it to control fuel and spark, or simply spark if you wanted to run a carb. Use a lock out on the timing. Remove the MDS lifters, use a cable operated throttle body, and simply fix the variable length intake into the high RPM setting.

Regards,


Joe Dokes
 
Cam phaser eliminator.

Seems to be on backorder, but at least they exist.

http://www.shophemi.com/p-2568-comp-vvt-cam-phaser-limiter-kit-for-hemi-engines.aspx

Also pure curiosity, but I wonder if the new 6.2L Hellcat Hemi's timing chain setup is any stronger???... and if it is, would it be interchangeable on the 2009 and later 5.7L motors and the 392 Hemi.

Finally, I would assume (always dangerous) that you could setup Megasquirt. You could use it to control fuel and spark, or simply spark if you wanted to run a carb. Use a lock out on the timing. Remove the MDS lifters, use a cable operated throttle body, and simply fix the variable length intake into the high RPM setting.

Regards,


Joe Dokes


Joe, that link is to a phaser limiter. I have yet to see a phaser eliminator kit other than the hemitronix kit.

I was wondering the same thing on the 6.2 timing set. I hear that the 6.4 chain is a little beefier but haven't seen anybody post if that's true or not.

The efisource stuff seems like it ought to work but, again, I don't know of anybody doing it. I've heard of them working on it for the last 2 years but haven't seen the pudding so to speak. I believe the efisource has an output that could work on the variable runner intakes too. IMO, those intakes are not worth it unless it is made operable. If it were to be strictly one way or the other, open or closed, it would sacrifice power on the other end of the power band. If its not energized it would remain in long runner mode limiting top end performance. How much? Who knows.... Probably not anybody doing any dyno testing on the subject. If some one had one and was on a tight budget, then sure do whatcha gotta do. Just my 0.02. I'm not saying I know **** from shinola. I'm just a stubborn bastard who has a vvt engine and will not accept any sacrifices.

And I also wish that fast or MSD or who ever would make a nice composit intake like they do for the LS. The new MSD one in the magazines looks awesome.
 
The guys at EFI Source are supposed to have a VVT engine on the dyno in January 2015. I'm watching them and Holley...
 
Phaser lock kit does exist.

[ame]http://www.compcams.com/catalog/CPG_NP_2012/pdf/cpg-new-products-2012-3.pdf[/ame]

In stock @ Summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-5760/overview/

I'm planning on the lockout kit and a regrind cam from Inertia and running it off the Holley Hp. I don't care if I'm leaving a little on the table not having the vct, the turbo will more than make up for it.
 
Monte Smith over on Moparts assures me that Holley is working on vvt with the hp and dominator systems. But he doesn't know when they will have it figured out. I also saw something to that effect on the Holley site as well. Sure you could go with modern muscle or Hotwire to make use of vvt but the Holley dominator is just a better value to a guy like me who plans on going turbo in the future. A stock ecu just can't compare in capabilities and features. I'm in no hurry. Ill just wait on Holley.

Hopefully FAST figures out what the deal is on their XIM problems. Otherwise it's a real pain in the *** to run the MSD.

What gets me is why nobody has stepped up yet with a heavy duty timing set for the vvt engines that just does away with the phaser all together and locks the cam timing in. I'd say there is a real demand for such a product. All us vvt guys are stuck with is the stock chains that are quite dainty looking. Even the recall replacements look weak.



I'd like to see someone get these engines sorted out. It would help if the aftermarket would get with it. Chrysler has already been making the vvt as long as it made the earlier models. And it doesn't look like its going away anytime soon. Pretty soon these will be everywhere in the wrecking yards and the non vvt's will dry up. We'll get there. In time.



Actually Manley is making a double roller chain with solid cam gear Hughes engines sell them
Can't post link manleys part # 73205

I've found them on jegs,summit, Hughes engines
 
Link? I'm not finding anything on Hughes or Manley's websites. I would call but assume they're closed today.
 
Actually Bro, that's for 08 and older 5.7's and 6.1's. Not 09+ vvt eagle 5.7's, which are the topic of this thread.

From HHP's site:

"*This kit does not work on 2009 and newer 5.7L variable cam (VVT) engines."

http://www.highhorseperformance.com/mobile/Product.aspx?id=1837


Yes they do fit they are a direct replacement upgrade when deleting the vvt. as of tonite I have installed one of my 32 tooth 3 bolt tone rings I have custom made to work with msd hemi 6 controller tomorrow install second one and put motor back in and hopefully have running by tomorrow evening. I will keep everyone posted. If these work it will make it a simple carb swap for the later vvt engines
 

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Yes they do fit they are a direct replacement upgrade when deleting the vvt.

Is that what you are using for a timing set? Got any pics? I'm just not sure of that set being applicable because I have Never heard of it working on a vvt motor. Share a link share anything that would help a guy wanting to use one of these vvt engines with a carb.
I'm not trying to say your wrong I just need to see the pudding. And for the last 5 years that I have been researching and talking to g3&4 engine builders I have not heard once of this kit working. I hope it does. Show us.

That tone ring looks sweet! Hope it all works out for ya. Keep us posted and good luck.

The MSD hemi6 is a much better unit than the fast XIM. It has more features.

Why could you not use the tome ring off of an 08 style crank?

What's one of those custom rings cost?
 
I'm also really curious about the timing chain setup. More details and pictures would be a great asset to the community.
 
K guess it's time to share some of my research with fellow hemi nuts Lol !!!
This is some of what I found with the 5.7 hemi

K 2003 - 2008 gen 3 hemis
32 tooth tone ring. 4 bolt pattern Same as what aftermarket stroker cranks use
Intake ports are square
Uses waste spark with crossover wire til 06
These are deemed low compression engines with about 9.5-1

2009-20014
58 tooth tone ring 3 bolt pattern 32 tooth unavailable in 3 bolt pattern
Intake ports are semi d shaped
Uses dual plug coils
Uses higher compression closer to 11-1
Has variable valve timing gear on cam can be replaced with any earlier version to eliminate the vvt spring loaded cam gear


My finding to this point everything that fits on early versions like intake cams timing chain cranks bearings will fit onto later versions
Must use hemi starter with the 130 tooth flywheel as the mini starter are to large around and the engage the flywheel at all times

Now for a little history of my findings are not just from being a computer mechanic I am almost to the point of firing up my twin engine (crank to crank) hemi pulling tractor I had to get a custom glide clutch made by molinari racing products. Make my own crank coupler get a Browell bellhousing to attach a scs quick change gearbox . Last summer I ordered a fast xim standalone unit after several days of trying with the help of Matt at fast t
Hey didn't t know why it wouldn't work even there known good one wouldn't t work they eventually just returned my money and I was stuck out in the cold again with no other options having close to 10 grand invested in these motors I decided to go Old school and make the parts I needed myself I got tired of waiting for the big corporations to get with the program

I may have missed some details but that is where this project is at the moment
 

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You could also use an early crank AND reluctor wheel but need old timing cover as well.
 
Baddasspullin,

That looks incredible.

Thanks for the first hand knowledge.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Great looking tractor O:)
Many years ago, I worked on some local tractor pulling engines. Started with a simple 454 Chevy, then added twin McLaren turbos with Hilborn injection and 100% methanol. They wanted more power, so they found this WWII V12 Tank engine!! It didn't stay together when over reved!! Also had a Rolls Royce Merlin engine in it as well.
 

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It's alive my 3 bolt 32 tone ring worked

These are bone stock 2010 truck engines with around 100 k

Cool. So what did you do for timing sets? Did you use the 08 back style? If so what did you do about the chain tensioners, since they are different on the '10 vs the '08? You used the stock '10 truck cams? Very curios to know how you set these up.

Thanks!!!
 
Also curious if you used the stock cams, what did you degree them at?
 
K update today. Both engines running as one
K fer everyone interested these are bone stock 2010 engines no internals changed other than tone wheel. Still has vvt timing chain and lifters Just added carbs this is a budget build to see if junker motors would work so if they blow up can go to a wrecker and be running next day
 
So, they're stock aside from the tone wheel, what did you use to lock out the VCT?
 
I didn't nothing to the internals other than change tone wheel I was told by a Chrysler tech that the cam phaser only works off of computer signal and oil pressure so if that isn t hooked up they will stay in the neutral position.
Again this is a low buck option and I don t care if they blow up i m just gonna run the **** out of them to see where the weak points are. If I were to worry about all the petty thing I've heard from people who have never had one running or opened one up I would have stayed with LA engines. Or spent 20 grand to make them theoretically perfect
Also if anyone wants a tone wheel pm me and we can work something out
 
Badasspullin,

What's really annoying is that MSD should be able to a flash the chip in the Hemi 6 in software to recognize the 58 tone wheel. :(

So to make the 3 bolt 32 tooth wheel did you simply grind and weld up a 4 bolt wheel or did you machine an entire new ring from scratch?

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
I didn't nothing to the internals other than change tone wheel I was told by a Chrysler tech that the cam phaser only works off of computer signal and oil pressure so if that isn t hooked up they will stay in the neutral position.
Again this is a low buck option and I don t care if they blow up i m just gonna run the **** out of them to see where the weak points are. If I were to worry about all the petty thing I've heard from people who have never had one running or opened one up I would have stayed with LA engines. Or spent 20 grand to make them theoretically perfect
Also if anyone wants a tone wheel pm me and we can work something out


Your so called Chrysler tech is wrong. Period. The phaser is in the fully advanced position when not acted upon by oil pressure via the oil control valve. If you were ever to disassemble a cam phaser gear, as I have done, you would quickly realize this(assuming a reasonable level of intelligence). You may consider this petty and you may not be concerned about blowing your hemis up, but so you are fully aware, the cam will be in the full advance position (37*) and at higher rpm you will most likely experience piston to valve contact also resulting in catastrophic damage. Not my circus, Not my clowns.


Where I do take offense is when you say things like "Internet mechanic" and "petty" which insinuates that I and the other contributors to this thread have no earthly idea what we are talking about. I have had one of these engines since march of 2010. Back before swapping them was even considered. I was among the very first to even bring it up here. Since that nearly five years of time, I have spent MANY MANY hours researching these vvt motors in many places. Including the Internet forums for various sites and I have called or visited many G3 Hemi engine builders searching for information and viable options for various combinations of these engines. I have done my homework so to speak. Plus I do have some first hand, hands on knowledge too. I have torn mine down to a short block out of boredom and morbid curiosity. I even disassembled my cam phaser. Plus I did a cam swap in a 2009 ram for a friend. That engine runs just fine.

As far as your claim that the 08 back timing set will work on a vvt motor, well I don't buy it. I'm calling bullshit. If that were true, everybody would be doing it by now. If you have some evidence, great. Post a link or source and a phone number. Otherwise put up or shut up.
I started this thread for those who are interested in an Eagle vvt swap, to provide good info with links to back it up. Sure there are lots of opinions stated here too. That's life on the Internet. So until you or anybody else can provide some proof, I advise people to disregard that info. Do your own homework and research. Don't just believe what some guy on the Internet says. That includes me.

What I have learned from you is that the FAST XIM ignition may not work after all and that by replacing the tone wheel from the 09+ 5.7 engine with the 08 back 32 tooth style(which you could pirate off of an 08 style 5.7 crank with the 3 bolt pattern) will work with the MSD HEMI 6 ignition. Thanks for that contribution.

Lastly, this is not your personal build thread. So of you don't have any tech info to contribute to the 5.7 Hemi Eagle subject, I suggest you start your own thread.
 
Your so called Chrysler tech is wrong. Period. The phaser is in the fully advanced position when not acted upon by oil pressure via the oil control valve. If you were ever to disassemble a cam phaser gear, as I have done, you would quickly realize this(assuming a reasonable level of intelligence). You may consider this petty and you may not be concerned about blowing your hemis up, but so you are fully aware, the cam will be in the full advance position (37*) and at higher rpm you will most likely experience piston to valve contact also resulting in catastrophic damage. Not my circus, Not my clowns.


Where I do take offense is when you say things like "Internet mechanic" and "petty" which insinuates that I and the other contributors to this thread have no earthly idea what we are talking about. I have had one of these engines since march of 2010. Back before swapping them was even considered. I was among the very first to even bring it up here. Since that nearly five years of time, I have spent MANY MANY hours researching these vvt motors in many places. Including the Internet forums for various sites and I have called or visited many G3 Hemi engine builders searching for information and viable options for various combinations of these engines. I have done my homework so to speak. Plus I do have some first hand, hands on knowledge too. I have torn mine down to a short block out of boredom and morbid curiosity. I even disassembled my cam phaser. Plus I did a cam swap in a 2009 ram for a friend. That engine runs just fine.

As far as your claim that the 08 back timing set will work on a vvt motor, well I don't buy it. I'm calling bullshit. If that were true, everybody would be doing it by now. If you have some evidence, great. Post a link or source and a phone number. Otherwise put up or shut up.
I started this thread for those who are interested in an Eagle vvt swap, to provide good info with links to back it up. Sure there are lots of opinions stated here too. That's life on the Internet. So until you or anybody else can provide some proof, I advise people to disregard that info. Do your own homework and research. Don't just believe what some guy on the Internet says. That includes me.

What I have learned from you is that the FAST XIM ignition may not work after all and that by replacing the tone wheel from the 09+ 5.7 engine with the 08 back 32 tooth style(which you could pirate off of an 08 style 5.7 crank with the 3 bolt pattern) will work with the MSD HEMI 6 ignition. Thanks for that contribution.

Lastly, this is not your personal build thread. So of you don't have any tech info to contribute to the 5.7 Hemi Eagle subject, I suggest you start your own thread.

Well when ur done researching and actually get one of ur own running let me know I just posted what i ve learned
Btw I have two engines coupled and running together guess i m just blowing smoke
guess my input isn't welcome here so I won't post any finds anymore
Thanks anyways
 
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