New affordable Fuel Injection

[goldduster318]

If they did it right, the air being drawn though the throttle body would keep it quite cool, add gasoline that likes to draw heat and it will stay even cooler. Add your engine fan and I think things will be just fine. Now shut off with the hood closed would be a different story as your bay becomes a good oven, but it's only like maybe 150 degrees? Seem even 60's electronics can survive that.

In the end if you grew up with carbs, why change what your used to. If you grew up with computers and modern vehicles then EFI makes more sense to you. After doing a lot of fuel economy engineering, the biggest downside to carburetors I see is the changing of gasoline compositions to resists evaporation and additives that are all designed to be used with EFI because no OEM is using a carb. EFI will always win in the end and it's not by anyone's choice, the OEM's and fuel company's driven by government regulations drives this buss.

The OEM electronic specs are usually over 100c (212F) for pretty much every electronic piece. So, if all the components are auto related, it should last no problem assuming the components are good quality. I'd be more worried about the vibration being engine mounted personally over the heat.

I have a sequential multiport setup on my car with coil near plug, and that is really incredible. These cheaper TBI setups certainly decrease difficulty, however, you'll remember that you're giving up some potential here. Really depends on what you are going for. I won't have to worry about "wall wetting", the design of the intake for wet flow, or a distributor cap ever again, but then again it cost a lot more. really, really fabulous compared to a carb. 45 degrees ambient and it fires and drives perfectly immediately. I can fix any fueling problem in a matter of seconds, and I can easily see everything the engine is doing.

 

[PhillH]

It's funny, I was never even interested in fuel infection on a classic until may made it look like a carb. So if I can get that kind of improvement, open the hood and barely see it, wow technology is great.

 

[cudaracer]

For those who say that this EFI system would only be considered when it comes closer to price of a regular carb, you are looking at it wrong.

I say, a regular carb would only be considered instead of EFI when it solves the many problems that EFI can solve.

For me it would solve the heat soak issue.
It would eliminate the strong smell of gasoline vapors in my garage.
It would eliminate the cold start, idle and low speed stumble.
It would be scaleable so that I won't have to swap carbs as I add more HP.
It would not wear out my starter trying to pump up fuel to the carb (very embarrassing).
And the wife would not call me all worried that she can't start the car, after borrowing it.

Yup, when a single regular carb can do all that, I will NOT consider EFI.

 

[lroman]

The Fitech so far has no bad karma. At the price Im seriously considering this.

Hi Phil. I was recently at Mancini Racing in my area. They had one sitting on the front counter. It's getting a lot of exposure and questions. I believe it's a speed/ density unit meaning it's the adaptable kind that learns by itself. That's all I know so far. Priced around $1000. I'm anxious to see performance reports on it.

 

[cannucky]

Reading is fundamental guys , theres a massive thread on here for the FiTech systems detailing all the ins and outs of the various units they offer .

 

[318willrun]

I think what RRR is saying is that you can still buy a new decent street carb for under 400 bucks. A good used 670/770 street avenger "bolt and go" is a couple hundred shipped to your door. This is a far cry from a "grand". Not at all saying FiTech isn't worth it, but still along way from a couple of hundred.

 

[MopaR&D]

For those who say that this EFI system would only be considered when it comes closer to price of a regular carb, you are looking at it wrong.

I say, a regular carb would only be considered instead of EFI when it solves the many problems that EFI can solve.

For me it would solve the heat soak issue.
It would eliminate the strong smell of gasoline vapors in my garage.
It would eliminate the cold start, idle and low speed stumble.
It would be scaleable so that I won't have to swap carbs as I add more HP.
It would not wear out my starter trying to pump up fuel to the carb (very embarrassing).
And the wife would not call me all worried that she can't start the car, after borrowing it.

Yup, when a single regular carb can do all that, I will NOT consider EFI.

Modern carbs take care of the first 3 points. I run a new Street Demon and it rivals EFI as far as street manners go. BUT someday I will put EFI on my car because carbs can't go closed loop and can't be adjusted while driving, they can't compensate for 'fuel' distribution problems, and oh yeah wet intake manifolds SUCK lol

 

[AJ/FormS]

Yeah well my nearly 50 year old 750DP is still going strong, And if I hit the highway, I bolt on a pre calibrated 600. Between the two of them I don't have a third of that G in 'em. But I haven't hit the highway in many years now.And the 750 has Zero problems such as listed in post 28. Well not quite true, every spring I do have to prime the carb.lol. And the wifey won't even sit in the car, and that's fine with me, cuz, well, she's a girl,and a fraidy-cat,and according to her I am just looking for trouble. Yet she's the one that crashes everything she owns...... Well ok I did get this one ticket, once...... Oh wait, I got this other one too; but that's it.
And in both cases the copper was giggling as he was writing out the ticket. I could just tell he wished he couldda done what I did, even half as good,lol.One practically said as much.....

 

[Darthomas]

Mr Bernoulli was a good all-around kinda guy, who figured out the way to make a calibrated vacuum signal that would permit a carburetor to follow real world conditions.
Long live the laws of physics, in defiance of the laws of firmware and software that do not respect or even recognize their own dependancy on hardware input.

 

[abodyjoe]

its not the cost of the EFI system for me. its the added cost of the rest of the fuel system to make it right thats held me back so far. once done with the engine swap i'll probably start saving to do the fuel system in preparation of EFI. once i get that stuff i'll save for a system i like at the time.

MPG payback will take forever. doubt many will ever see that over the life of their cars. power increase? only if your carb/carbs are way out of tune. improved starting and drive ability are a very nice plus. i'm sure improved MPG will help at the time of your road trips too...

i don't care how good you are (or think you are) with a carb. the best a carb can do is be adequate. tune it at 7am and by 3pm its out because of the weather changing. the next day its 10* cooler and less humid and that carb is no longer perfect like the EFI. now will it run like ****? no but its no longer perfectly tuned like an EFI system will be. drive that ***** into different altitudes and that carb is no longer perfectly tuned like that EFI is.. now for someone that gets in there car and just drives to 5 miles to the local cruise night it probably doesn't matter too much. to those who like to drive the hell out of their cars in all differen't conditions it may matter a lot more.

my biggest fear with EFI is if something happens to the ECU hours from home. not getting one of those at the local parts store. a sensor no big deal since most use common off the shelf parts..

 

[KitCarlson]

my biggest fear with EFI is if something happens to the ECU hours from home. not getting one of those at the local parts store. a sensor no big deal since most use common off the shelf parts..

A well designed ECU, is the most reliable part of the system. Fuel pumps, sensors, and connectors typically fail first. I have never encountered a failed ECU in all my years.

Electronic things in general are very reliable, unless you include iphones in the mix.

 

[lroman]

The OEM electronic specs are usually over 100c (212F) for pretty much every electronic piece. So, if all the components are auto related, it should last no problem assuming the components are good quality. I'd be more worried about the vibration being engine mounted personally over the heat.

I have a sequential multiport setup on my car with coil near plug, and that is really incredible. These cheaper TBI setups certainly decrease difficulty, however, you'll remember that you're giving up some potential here. Really depends on what you are going for. I won't have to worry about "wall wetting", the design of the intake for wet flow, or a distributor cap ever again, but then again it cost a lot more. really, really fabulous compared to a carb. 45 degrees ambient and it fires and drives perfectly immediately. I can fix any fueling problem in a matter of seconds, and I can easily see everything the engine is doing.

Hi. My name is Larry and I live relatively close by (Garden City). I ran a dyno at the Ford Scientific / Research lab 17+ years before moving into vehicle development. I'm in agreement 100% with your findings. The only TBI unit I was considering was the FAST unit used in many of the Roush crate offerings. Having been involved with engine development, I have seen the clear advantages of a multi-point sequential system. It completely eliminates the atomization / wall wetting problems created with introducing the atomized mixture far upstream from the valve. The ordinary guy doesn't realize that when the air (light weight) and fuel (heavier), traveling at speed together, don't make turns or bends at the same rate. The air is easily directed while the fuel can't make the turn as quickly and hits the walls of the manifold. That's why the single plane manifolds have better distibution. Straight shot...less turns. Enough school. Let me know the make/brand of the EFI system you've got. I'm really interested. Thanks.

 

[lroman]

Mr Bernoulli was a good all-around kinda guy, who figured out the way to make a calibrated vacuum signal that would permit a carburetor to follow real world conditions.
Long live the laws of physics, in defiance of the laws of firmware and software that do not respect or even recognize their own dependancy on hardware input.

Very well put. Simple is usually the best. All the carb works with is pressure differential. Once you have the correct calibration you're good to go. Bernoulli would be proud of you LOL. We don't need no steenking electronics.

 

[AJ/FormS]

Yeah my 750 has it easy. My radius of operation is about 100miles, and all dead flat. And I run from May long to Sept long so the temps are probably from 5 to 25,occasionally 30 degrees Celsius, but mostly I don't go out until she hits 15 or so. The carb is sucking fresh air. It needs no choke. I do love to exercise her. I don't do shows. I built it to DRIVE, and so I do. But I'm semi-retired now and so is she, so We don't travel 12000 miles a year anymore. And the 600Vsec hasn't been on her in a very long time. I can't stand waiting for the secondaries.I have a 750Vsec too but again; elephant one, elephant two..Oh are we spinning yet? Naw when I hit it,chit needs to happen right now! I want screaming tires and smoke and I want it to instantly hit the rev-limiter . And most of all;I want to hear those screaming dual 3inch pipes and Dynomaxers blowing out the back at 7000plus rpm. And I want to see the tach needle stuck on 7200 for at least 5 to 6 seconds and 3 tranny ratios.Yeah, no, the 600 is afraid of that stuff, and while the750Vsec will do it alright, that millisecond it takes to get going might as well be a million years. And in the corners, power delivery can be exciting. No,really, in the corners a Vsec sucks.You gotta slow it down, for the powerslides to be predictable, and controllable. Nothing is as embarrassing as mounting a curb cuz you couldn't control power delivery.And then every body drives by you, honking in derision,and wagging their fingers, and/or screaming obscenities at you.I hated that,lol. Naw the DP is the thing to have. Shoot, I think I'd like to try 8barrels some day. Well, OK, maybe that might not be the best for the corners either, lol.
Ok so back on topic; If I was running 12000 miles a year, like in the early days, and I had the cash, I would be driving EFI absolutely no questions. I used to swap drivetrains twice a year, to put those kindof miles on it, and the biggest reason was carburated 360 driveability, and fuel consumption. The 292/508 does not like snow, and minus 30 degree mournings!heehee. And the 270* either, and a 276* either. Especially with a Manual trans.
I can totally see the 276* and EFI hitting it off together. I'd probably swap the cam out again for something smaller. I don't need to go 93 in the 1/8th anymore. Shoot I think I would re-engineer the chassis to try and hit those 1.6 60fts, and call it done at 65mph. Ima thinking a 262 cam and a starter gear of 13/1. And studded tires.POW! I could still cruise at 65= 2708 with 4.30s and the GV, Yup,I bet she'd have some giddy-up with that EFI,no doubt.

 

[magnummopar]

I spent $800 on a complete 99 Durango 5.9 46RE. Kept the leather interior and sold/scrapped the rest out for $500. I sell Tanks Inc so its a bit cheaper than for you guys but not much. So say I have $500 in tank, pump, sender and fuel lines plus the $300 for the rest. I am currently looking at $800 for multi port injection, which happened to come with a 5.9 and OD trans. I can get parts,including PCM, at any parts store for dirt cheap. I think thats cheaper than a carb any day of the week!
Goldduster, assuming you are running magnum stuff, what pcm are you using?