318 Full of Chunks of Rust, How Bad is That?

-
Z

zephyr

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
356
Reaction score
163
Location
San Bernardino
I bought a running 318 with 30K miles to swap with my old 273 in my Dart. Before installing it the mechanic pulled one of the freeze plugs out and a ton of chunky rust, grit and crap poured out. The mechanic says he's not ok with installing that engine. His machinist told him the engine needs to be torn down and the block put in an oven to make sure it can be rebuilt. And then rebuilt.

The seller says it's no big deal. I paid $3000 for the engine and it would certainly make no sense for me to pay to rebuild it. My car is sitting in the shop with both motors beside it waiting for my decision and the seller's response. Advice, please.

IMG_0445.jpeg


IMG_0446.jpeg


Plug.jpg
 
Not good but not catastrophic. Knock all the freeze plugs out and get a power washer nozzle in there and flush it out and replace all the freeze plugs.

A bit of work but but not catastrophic

That's pretty normal for an engine as old as some are getting to be.
 
I would knock out some plugs on the sides and clean the engine out with water. If it's just rust no big deal. If the water looks like oil floating on top, not good. Should have seen mine! It was solid behind the freeze plugs on the sides and it ran and cooled fine.
 
$3000.00 must be a special 318...wow..I've never seen a used 318 sell for more than $700 and that was loaded!! $3000 is 340 HP prices... get half your money back @ least...
 
3K? This is a good running engine? Did you hear it run? If it runs fine then just clean that out. Remove all freeze plugs, scrape and rinse the crap out. It’s not uncommon to have that in one that didn’t have the best care. I’ve seen it a lot.
 
I had a friend use vinegar to clean out all his vintage engines, he says that it works great!! But you have to let it sit in there for a few days for it to do a good job, the longer the better. Then you have to wash it out. He bought one of those glass tubes that you install into the upper radiator hose. The clear tube contains a filter. After he assembles the engine and gets it running he uses the tube to catch any remaining rust particles that are always left over. He cleans out the tube every now and then until it comes out clean then he removes it til he does another engine. He has the system down pat!! Some of the engines that he has saved had pretty bad rust but the vinegar eats it all!!

PS - Vinegar will not harm cast iron, only rust (iron oxide)
 
I saw video of the car it came out of running. Maybe I overpaid but if the engine gives me good service that's not the end of the world, I guess. Is there a significant risk that the engine is just rotten with rust and is gonna fail?
 
I wouldnt go on sellers word on anything, sorry to say. Like said knock the plugs out and watch for oil.
 
VanceC said:
I saw video of the car it came out of running. Maybe I overpaid but if the engine gives me good service that's not the end of the world, I guess. Is there a significant risk that the engine is just rotten with rust and is gonna fail?
Click to expand...
Re-read the posts above; it's not the end of the world. Clean it out and run it- if it fails, it won't be because of the rust in the water jackets.
 
I'm just going to throw this out there: Your "mechanic" won't run the engine because he's worried about rust in the water jackets of a cast iron block, but he hasn't brought up the convertor register difference in the crank flange (if you're running an automatic) or checking for a pilot bearing bore (if a manual trans.)? He sounds a little dodgy to me, and I don't mean in a good way.
 
Pull the stat and run a hose through it until it runs clear out the hole, then pull the next plug and do the same. My '63 cast 273 2bbl rear plugs were removed and there was a solid wall of sediment in there, no water! I had to take a screwdriver to it to poke it through and then cleaned it out with a pressure washer. I made a stack of crap that was 4 inches high on the ground. I'm not sure what your mechanic is talking about, ain't his car. If the seller is waiting on a response and you have an option to back out of the purchase, I'd take back the money and run. Ill help you source a good 318 for 10% of that price. I'm only 45 miles away. Heck, I got a clean 273 long block in the garage right now.
 
I guess if to you it's only money( $3k for an unknown 318) Wow. Corrosion, timing cover, anything that coolant passes through. Like someone with high cholesterol and your heart and arteries are plugged up. The whole system has to be in good condition, not just the heart.
Your mechanic is right in not wanting to put his name on something like this.
Just think of what you can't see and cross your fingers.
I would get my money back from the seller and look for another one. You can get a rebuilt engine with a warranty for what you spent. I paid less than (a lot less) that for a remanufactured, replacement 5.7 Gen III Hemi for my Magnum R/T.
 
In post #1, picture #1, the back of the block and the center of the crank are painted. This is not normal. Was the engine "rebuilt"?
Remove all freeze plugs even the ones in the heads and flush from top down. I even stand them on end and flush. Be sure to seal the spark plugs holes and exhaust ports. After flush, get after it with an air hose.
.
Better yet get your money back.
 
This is pretty typical in a high mileage engine. Many engines still have casting sand in the bottom of them.
I have cleaned blocks and radiators with vinegar and it does work. just dump it in the radiator and drive it a day or two. Then drain and flush several times.

Is it just me or does that paint look like the orange marking paint you use to draw lines on the ground. It looks flat and chalky. I bet you got a spray can rebuild there.
 
I totall agree with pulling the freeze plugs and power washing the insides. HOWEVER, don't forget to pull the two drain plugs near the bottom of the block; one on each side. Often, you will have to take out the plug and then poke inside the hole to clear out sediment/rust/crap that plugs up the hole. I don't want to rub salt into an open wound, but you way overpaid for that engine.
 
Clean it and run it....get a different mechanic. Sounds like a parts replacer to me.
 
Mtrhead said:
$3000.00 must be a special 318...wow..I've never seen a used 318 sell for more than $700 and that was loaded!! $3000 is 340 HP prices... get half your money back @ least...
Click to expand...
Yup 318s are gold now and that's all I have to say about that...:) OP yes for 3 grand that engine should have been cleaned out, new core plugs(freeze plugs)
 
Thank you to everybody who responded. Since the majority of you said that the rust was not that unusual, I am having the engine flushed out and installed. Many of you say I overpaid for the engine. I probably should have negotiated a lower price but at the time, I had already gotten 4 estimates for buying and rebuilding a 318 and they were all over $4000; out of my very limited budget.
 
VanceC said:
Thank you to everybody who responded. Since the majority of you said that the rust was not that unusual, I am having the engine flushed out and installed. Many of you say I overpaid for the engine. I probably should have negotiated a lower price but at the time, I had already gotten 4 estimates for buying and rebuilding a 318 and they were all over $4000; out of my very limited budget.
Click to expand...
Don't forget what I said in post #11- this is not a bolt-in replacement swap. Going by your avatar, I'm assuming you have an early A ('66 and earlier) which means your 273 has the early 904 convertor register in the crankshaft. 318s, made '68 and later, have a larger register bore, which requires an adapter bushing in order to use your early transmission; again, assuming you have an automatic transmission. It will physically fit, but it will fail without the adapter. If it is a manual transmission, you need to check that the crank was drilled for a pilot bushing, as not all of them were.
And then there is the water pump issue if the 318 is post '70 vintage- the pump inlet switched from the driver's side to the passenger side in 1970, which gives you 2 options: change radiators to accommodate the later water pump, or swap the 273's water pump and timing cover onto the 318 (preferable, if you also have a power steering pump/brackets and/or A/C to swap over). Use all the front end stuff (pullies, brackets) from the 273.
You say you have a very limited budget, so do it right the first time so you don't have to do it twice.
 
Professor Fate said:
Don't forget what I said in post #11- this is not a bolt-in replacement swap. Going by your avatar, I'm assuming you have an early A ('66 and earlier) which means your 273 has the early 904 convertor register in the crankshaft. 318s, made '68 and later, have a larger register bore, which requires an adapter bushing in order to use your early transmission; again, assuming you have an automatic transmission. It will physically fit, but it will fail without the adapter. If it is a manual transmission, you need to check that the crank was drilled for a pilot bushing, as not all of them were.
And then there is the water pump issue if the 318 is post '70 vintage- the pump inlet switched from the driver's side to the passenger side in 1970, which gives you 2 options: change radiators to accommodate the later water pump, or swap the 273's water pump and timing cover onto the 318 (preferable, if you also have a power steering pump/brackets and/or A/C to swap over). Use all the front end stuff (pullies, brackets) from the 273.
You say you have a very limited budget, so do it right the first time so you don't have to do it twice.
Click to expand...
I am using the radiator from the seller's car. I have an adaptor for the crank. I am using the flex plate from the sellers car so that my transmission will work. Did I forget anything?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top