Highway RPMS ?

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65slant

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Hey all,

Going on a looooooong road trip at the end of july, and i was wondering what the safest/best most economical rpm is for the road trip 1000<miles. Its a 65 dart slant/auto very stock, i beleve 2:76 gears just bought 15 inch sbp wheels and was wondering how tall of tires i should get to be on the low side of the flat spot on the torque curve-if that makes any sense? cause thats what I've been told, is there any mpg tips besides the regular stuff? I'm getting a vacuum gauge, taking weight out i added an air dam, electric fan in the works, anything else I'm missing? thanks in advance
 
If economy is what you're after, keep RPM at 2K or lower.
 
I was playing around with the summit gear ratio calculator and found…
2.76 gear
29 in tall tire
70 mph
=2238rpm
Will the slant hold up all that way at those rpms?
or should i try to fit a bigger tire (as in taller) with some "adjustments"
i know 29 is the tallest without masaging ;)
 
Your RPM's are going to be a bit higher since you don't have a locking torque converter.

Too tall a tire and the car will start to struggle on steep grades; the auto will help by the torque converter slipping a bit more as RPM's go down. I-95 in western MA has a few grades that are kinda high for example.
 
Your RPM's are going to be a bit higher since you don't have a locking torque converter.

Too tall a tire and the car will start to struggle on steep grades; the auto will help by the torque converter slipping a bit more as RPM's go down. I-95 in western MA has a few grades that are kinda high for example.

so are the 29s spot on? whats a "locking torque converter", and can i put one in easy enough, or does the tranny have to come out? thanks!
 
These things ran many thousands of miles at much higher engine speeds than 2200. I would personally run it and don't worry about it (as long as everything's in reasonably good shape). In fact, as mentioned above, your mileage may suffer if the engine has to pull too tall an effective gear ratio.
 
I have found that running above 2800 and definitely over 3000 rpm, the engine seems to use more gas than it returns in extra speed. The car is a 73 Dart MoDo 205/904/2.73. The tires are 24.69" high (225/60-15)The car has a 2¼" exhaust system. I used to get 27mpg while averaging 65 mph. The only other mod done on the car was removing carb heat and dismantling EGR.

As far as prepping any car for a long trip; evaluate the general condition of the car. What's broken and needs to be fixed. Plan route to avoid hilly terrain,if possible, or at least plan route with gentlest gradient changes. Avoid major metropolitan areas during rush hour. Make sure you have plenty of cigarette outlets for recharging the electrical menagerie,

Depending on outside temps, I suggest a couple of gallons of water for a vapor lock. In a similar vein, suggest upper and lower radiator cooling hoses and the tools to install them if need be.
 
I have found that running above 2800 and definitely over 3000 rpm, the engine seems to use more gas than it returns in extra speed. The car is a 73 Dart MoDo 225/904/2.73. The tires are 24.69" high (205/60-15)The car has a 2¼" exhaust system. I used to get 27mpg while averaging 65 mph. The only other mod done on the car was removing carb heat and dismantling EGR.

As far as prepping any car for a long trip; evaluate the general condition of the car. What's broken and needs to be fixed. Plan route to avoid hilly terrain,if possible, or at least plan route with gentlest gradient changes. Avoid major metropolitan areas during rush hour. Make sure you have plenty of cigarette outlets for recharging the electrical menagerie,

Depending on outside temps, I suggest a couple of gallons of water for a vapor lock. In a similar vein, suggest upper and lower radiator cooling hoses and the tools to install them if need be.
Thanks for your suggestions, ill be carrying some extra parts. What rpms do you run at 65? is the 2.25 exhaust from manifold to the bumper? and ru still running points? sorry for all the questions I'm trying to get some more opinions on this stuff-thank you
 
Thanks for your suggestions, ill be carrying some extra parts. What rpms do you run at 65? is the 2.25 exhaust from manifold to the bumper? and ru still running points? sorry for all the questions I'm trying to get some more opinions on this stuff-thank you
might want to recheck that gear calculation. my experiances don`t line up w/ that. ???
 
I have found that running above 2800 and definitely over 3000 rpm, the engine seems to use more gas than it returns in extra speed. The car is a 73 Dart MoDo 225/904/2.73. The tires are 24.69" high (205/60-15)The car has a 2¼" exhaust system. I used to get 27mpg while averaging 65 mph. The only other mod done on the car was removing carb heat and dismantling EGR.

As far as prepping any car for a long trip; evaluate the general condition of the car. What's broken and needs to be fixed. Plan route to avoid hilly terrain,if possible, or at least plan route with gentlest gradient changes. Avoid major metropolitan areas during rush hour. Make sure you have plenty of cigarette outlets for recharging the electrical menagerie,

Depending on outside temps, I suggest a couple of gallons of water for a vapor lock. In a similar vein, suggest upper and lower radiator cooling hoses and the tools to install them if need be.

Don't forget the waterpump bypass hose too. I know my car needs one...
 
What rpms do you run at 65? is the 2.25 exhaust from manifold to the bumper? and ru still running points?

  1. About 2450 rpm
  2. Yes, but I have "cheated" a bit on the exhaust manifold. (see note below)
  3. No. Factory electronic


I call the device below an oversized manifold. Though it does not look much larger than the factory manifold, the difference in wall thickness is considerable. Note: It does not have a choke coil pocket or exhaust damper. Compared to the stock manifold, it has more surface area making it run a little cooler, though it barely showed up on the temp gauge on long trips. I couldn't see any difference around town. Manifold heat is provided by heat soak from the cylinder head. It did not affect the time it takes to get heat inside. In terms of fuel mileage, I saw no difference in city usage and 2-3 mpg increase on longer trips.
 

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so are the 29s spot on? whats a "locking torque converter", and can i put one in easy enough, or does the tranny have to come out? thanks!
Trannie has to come out plus other changes. The 29's are a compromise....should help on the highway at higher speeds for mileage but the engine will have rev a bit more on long grades and the torque converter will slip more at all highway speeds on grades (that will be more pronounced at lower highway speeds like maybe 45-50 mph as a guestimate). Thus more heat in the trannie: I would consider an external trannie cooler if you are going to be cruising up in the hills of western MA, NH and VT.
 
When I was still using my 65 as a daily driver I consistently got 22 MPG on the highway running about 70 MPH. That was a well worn stock engine (225K+ miles), 185-80/13 tires and the factory 3.23 gears (are you SURE you have 2.76's?). I never had a tach installed, but would have guessed by ear that it was turning about 3000 RPM at that speed. Fuel economy started to fall off pretty quick if I tried to go faster. I would think the sweet spot for a stock slant would be 2500-2800 RPM. I would suspect the factory manifolding becomes a factor much above that. Also, remember that aerodynamic drag increases at the square of speed so at some point it will take a lot more energy to go a little faster. Again I think 70 MPH is about where drag really becomes a factor.

Lower RPM isn't always the silver bullet to achieve fuel economy. If the gearing is too tall you may put enough load on the engine to cause the metering rods/power valve to open during cruise (low manifold vacuum caused by increased throttle opening).

Also consider the increased rolling resistance and rotational mass caused by larger wheels and tires. This may hurt more than it helps.
 
I was playing around with the summit gear ratio calculator and found…
2.76 gear
29 in tall tire
70 mph
=2238rpm
Will the slant hold up all that way at those rpms?)

What??? What??? Blasphemy! ;) of COURSE it'll hold up.:) my '68 took me over 3000 in 9 days last summer. I've done numerous 1000 mile weekends with absolutely no problems whatsoever.:) and that's with 2.76 and a 26 inch tire on 14" wheels.
 
Trannie has to come out plus other changes. The 29's are a compromise....should help on the highway at higher speeds for mileage but the engine will have rev a bit more on long grades and the torque converter will slip more at all highway speeds on grades (that will be more pronounced at lower highway speeds like maybe 45-50 mph as a guestimate). Thus more heat in the trannie: I would consider an external trannie cooler if you are going to be cruising up in the hills of western MA, NH and VT.

ill look into the external cooler, but like i said ill be cruising at 65+ to Michigan- Thank you!
 
OK, your only consistent grades will be the hills through PA on I80 if you head that way.

BTW...the Dart Lite that I drove for years had 2.76 rear gears and a 4 speed manual trannie, where 4th was a 0.83 OD. 65 mph was a solid 29 mpg. 70 mph it would be around 28 mpg out the flat land of the midwest. But, for steep grades I could drop to 3rd (1:1 gear) and it would have plenty of torque to do 80 mph or better up a 12% grade near my home in VA; it sure did not mind the revs in that mode.

So you are kinda moving towards a small OD gear with the taller tires.

(Of course the lighter weight of the Lite helped, and the carb was tuned for mileage from the factory.)

BTW, C130 Chief gives a good reference to the increase in wind resistance with speed; actully the increase is typically between the square and the cube of the speed so its effect is understated above. By 70-75 mph, wind resistance starts to dominate the added power needed to move the car any faster; it starts becoming a significant factor as low as 45-50 mph. Hence, your sweet post for mileage is typically around 50-55 mph, +/-.
 
OK, your only consistent grades will be the hills through PA on I80 if you head that way.

BTW...the Dart Lite that I drove for years had 2.76 rear gears and a 4 speed manual trannie, where 4th was a 0.83 OD. 65 mph was a solid 29 mpg. 70 mph it would be around 28 mpg out the flat land of the midwest. But, for steep grades I could drop to 3rd (1:1 gear) and it would have plenty of torque to do 80 mph or better up a 12% grade near my home in VA; it sure did not mind the revs in that mode.

So you are kinda moving towards a small OD gear with the taller tires.

(Of course the lighter weight of the Lite helped, and the carb was tuned for mileage from the factory.)

BTW, C130 Chief gives a good reference to the increase in wind resistance with speed; actully the increase is typically between the square and the cube of the speed so its effect is understated above. By 70-75 mph, wind resistance starts to dominate the added power needed to move the car any faster; it starts becoming a significant factor as low as 45-50 mph. Hence, your sweet post for mileage is typically around 50-55 mph, +/-.

Thanks for the insight, I'm going through canada cause its shorter. how much lighter is your car than mine? I'm going to join the ecomodder website as well. i put an air dam made out of a conveyor belt thats three 3in off the ground I'm doing some more mods to "try" to overcome the brick like aero on these cars. I'm doing it because it a challenge not because its easy, anyone could buy a civic and get 35mpg with there foot on the floor (yawn)
 
Dunno the weight of the '76 Dart Lite vs your car as they are different bodies. But the Lite supposedly shaved around 300-400 lbs from the standard Dart of the mid-70's by:
- No bumper surrounds
- Less interior deadening
- Some AL parts like intake manifold, 4 speed trannie case, underhood and undertruck bracing
- Skinny wheels
- No doubt other stuff that I have forgotten

Very interesting on the air dam! Post a pix!
 
The standard equipment rear axle ratio on a 65 valiant with 225 and auto is 2.93. That info is straight out of the service manual and my 65 matches the info. Of course in the last 50 years the axle could have been changed. If you haven't ever changed your rear diff fluid you should do so and then you can just read the ratio off of the ring gear. The fluid fill plug is a 8 sided plug that you remove using a 1/2 inch extension and rachet. The fluid to use is 80w90 gear oil.
 
Help y’all , if I’m correct Gears and trans and ratios and tires and miler per hour and gas Millard shouldn’t matter or even year or type of vehicle . What is a highest rpm a slant should operate at for long period of time ? 2-4 -6-8 hours type thing . 2500? 3000? The result speed and power will all be different with all those variables but safe motor rpms to run them at to not blow it up should be same for all slants . I think many of us looking for that number
 
Id be sure vacuum and mechanical advance was doing its job and all tuneup parts were the best they can be. make sure carb adjustments are all dead nuts "for your car" (not necesaarily what any book says) Ive had cars where swapping a carb made a huge difference, not always to the "good" and that was with replacing a seemingly identical carb.
 
>How are you gonna fit a 29" tire on a 65Dart? Does that even work?
To fit a 29 on 67 up will require the axle to be moved back.jus saying
>It only requires in the range of 40 to 50hp to push your 65 thru the air at 65 mph. It's up to you to set your cruise speed at the lowest rpm that the engine makes just enough power, at a modest throttle opening This is easier done with a tiny single barrel or better yet a 2bbl with two venturies.
1) Do a tune-up on the engine including a compression test and a slightly baggy valve lash; say .013/.023 at say 60*F ambient degrees. Make sure the numbers are even. Make sure the Vcan is working. Install new plugs and prove the rest. Make sure the engine runs over 180*F. Check that your exhaust back-pressure is less than 4psi at your cruising speed, going down the road in top gear. Less than 3 is better.
2) Gear the car with the lowest number gear you can find to a minimum of 2.76s. Install "normal-sized" radial tires on it. Like say 27s or thereabouts, and put some extra air in them.
3) drop the nose under the K-member about 1 inch, from level at the rockers.That is to say; level the rockers, then drop the nose one inch.
4) install a dash-mounted, dial-back, timing retard box, with a range of at least 15 degrees. With 27" tires and 2.76s, 65 will be 2230 at zeroslip, perhaps 2350 on the tach. Your engine will be wanting a ton of cruise timing, perhaps as much as 50* at 2350. Your D will be hard pressed to deliver say 30* which will send your fuel economy plummeting. With the dial back, you can almost give her what she wants.
5) Get the car up to cruising speed, then lean out the cruse until it starts bucking or won't hold a steady speed, and then put a lil fuel back in. Now, on flat, level, hard ground, with no wind or hills, get her up to speed again, then read your speed-O, and write it down. Then with the Dial-back, add about 5 degrees, (guessing is fine) continue driving and watching the Speed-O. If the speed increases, slow the car down back to the starting point. Wait for the speed to stabilize. Then add another 3 to 5 degrees, guessing is still fine. and watch the speed-O. Repeat until the car no longer increases in speed, or you run out of timing adjustment.
If at any time, the speed of the car does not increase with the addition of timing, back the dial up to the last time it did, then get her back up to cruise speed, and wait for the speed to stabilize. Finally check the rpm and write it down. Pull over and put a timing light on it. Rev it up to the recorded rpm, and read the timing; write it down. Jump in the car, back up the dial back to zero and go home.
What this does is find the exact right timing for the chosen roadspeed and load. Now you just have to build your distributor as close to that as possible, and later during the trip, dial in the rest with the DB tool. The trick is to remember to dial it out, whenever you lay on the gaspedal!
Now you can go back and finish futzing with the carb.
6) if you make any changes to the load or the cruise rpm, you gotta start over.


No other tricks will come close to, in fact I would venture to say that All other tricks together, will not reap the benefits of exactly correct cruise timing.
Factory timing can be incredibly conservative; don't be surprised to see only 10/12* in the Vcan. You may need to get the basic power-timing worked out first. Typically, the Vcan has less than 12 degrees in it. You can grind off the stops to get more but I think it tops out at around 22/24. If you put in much less than 2.76 gears your engine may not have enough vacuum to pull it all in. In which case the change may bring negative results. IMO 2.76s is the lowest I would go. Cruising at 2350 for fuel-economy is very doable.
Here is what I do with SBMs; How it may translate to slanty's I cannot say.
Put a vacuum gauge on the intake. In neutral slowly rev the engine up . watch the vacuum. when the vacuum reaches it's highest, for fuel-economy in a given combo, that is your lowest cruise rpm.
Now Tee the vacuum gauge onto the spark port. Roadtest it in top gear. Begin at 1800rpm or so. Slowly increase your speed. When the vacuum reaches it's highest level at steady speed, that is the highest cruise rpm, that you should consider...... because after that your cruise timing MAY begin to drop out.
Happy HotRodding.
 
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>How are you gonna fit a 29" tire on a 65Dart? Does that even work?
To fit a 29 on 67 up will require the axle to be moved back.jus saying
>It only requires in the range of 40 to 50hp to push your 65 thru the air at 65 mph. It's up to you to set your cruise speed at the lowest rpm that the engine makes just enough power, at a modest throttle opening This is easier done with a tiny single barrel or better yet a 2bbl with two venturies.
1) Do a tune-up on the engine including a compression test and a slightly baggy valve lash; say .013/.023 at say 60*F ambient degrees. Make sure the numbers are even. Make sure the Vcan is working. Install new plugs and prove the rest. Make sure the engine runs over 180*F. Check that your exhaust back-pressure is less than 4psi at your cruising speed, going down the road in top gear. Less than 3 is better.
2) Gear the car with the lowest number gear you can find to a minimum of 2.76s. Install "normal-sized" radial tires on it. Like say 27s or thereabouts, and put some extra air in them.
3) drop the nose under the K-member about 1 inch, from level at the rockers.That is to say; level the rockers, then drop the nose one inch.
4) install a dash-mounted, dial-back, timing retard box, with a range of at least 15 degrees. With 27" tires and 2.76s, 65 will be 2230 at zeroslip, perhaps 2350 on the tach. Your engine will be wanting a ton of cruise timing, perhaps as much as 50* at 2350. Your D will be hard pressed to deliver say 30* which will send your fuel economy plummeting. With the dial back, you can almost give her what she wants.
5) Get the car up to cruising speed, then lean out the cruse until it starts bucking or won't hold a steady speed, and then put a lil fuel back in. Now, on flat, level, hard ground, with no wind or hills, get her up to speed again, then read your speed-O, and write it down. Then with the Dial-back, add about 5 degrees, (guessing is fine) continue driving and watching the Speed-O. If the speed increases, slow the car down back to the starting point. Wait for the speed to stabilize. Then add another 3 to 5 degrees, guessing is still fine. and watch the speed-O. Repeat until the car no longer increases in speed, or you run out of timing adjustment.
If at any time, the speed of the car does not increase with the addition of timing, back the dial up to the last time it did, then get her back up to cruise speed, and wait for the speed to stabilize. Finally check the rpm and write it down. Pull over and put a timing light on it. Rev it up to the recorded rpm, and read the timing; write it down. Jump in the car, back up the dial back to zero and go home.
What this does is find the exact right timing for the chosen roadspeed and load. Now you just have to build your distributor as close to that as possible, and later during the trip, dial in the rest with the DB tool. The trick is to remember to dial it out, whenever you lay on the gaspedal!
Now you can go back and finish futzing with the carb.
6) if you make any changes to the load or the cruise rpm, you gotta start over.


No other tricks will come close to, in fact I would venture to say that All other tricks together, will not reap the benefits of exactly correct cruise timing.
Factory timing can be incredibly conservative; don't be surprised to see only 10/12* in the Vcan. You may need to get the basic power-timing worked out first. Typically, the Vcan has less than 12 degrees in it. You can grind off the stops to get more but I think it tops out at around 22/24. If you put in much less than 2.76 gears your engine may not have enough vacuum to pull it all in. In which case the change may bring negative results. IMO 2.76s is the lowest I would go. Cruising at 2350 for fuel-economy is very doable.
Here is what I do with SBMs; How it may translate to slanty's I cannot say.
Put a vacuum gauge on the intake. In neutral slowly rev the engine up . watch the vacuum. when the vacuum reaches it's highest, for fuel-economy in a given combo, that is your lowest cruise rpm.
Now Tee the vacuum gauge onto the spark port. Roadtest it in top gear. Begin at 1800rpm or so. Slowly increase your speed. When the vacuum reaches it's highest level at steady speed, that is the highest cruise rpm, that you should consider...... because after that your cruise timing MAY begin to drop out.
Happy HotRodding.
I love reading your comments! I printed one of your previous tutorials on setting engine temp, valve lash and timing. Hopefully I have time to apply it all this weekend. :D

And 65Slant, go for it man! My 64 has a 4 spd with an ungodly 2.45 rear end and 24" tall 205/50R17s. She cruises at 60 mph turning about 2,000 RPM. We drove it 2,000 miles round trip from Tacoma to LA, cruising up and down the west coast shoreline. Any incline we came to required a downshift to 3rd if we were driving under about 70 MPH. Our plan was to hit the road with fresh belts and hoses and an AAA card if something major broke. WE HAD A BLAST!:steering:I had to replace the original starter while on the trip and fought a clutch that didn't like to disengage after 50 miles of driving. That ended up being a bad transmission input shaft pilot bushing. I've had friends that wouldn't go on a road trip without a trunk full of parts that are available at any NAPA store. I did throw in a basic toolbox that came in handy for that starter replacement.

Keep 'em rolling!:thumbsup:
 
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