AR-15s

[Sublime one]

I'll put it this way: Colt ARs specifically had far better production quality and processes than anyone else for decades and ad far as I can tell it's continued. The trigger pins were center ground and held within less than .001" for years. The shop finally burned up their equipment and they went to centerless, but they're still stupid precise. Most places chop them from drill rod and they vary, or are bent.
The carriers I've seen were amazing. Surfaces were honed exactly right with amazing surface finishes. Most that I checked would run 8-12ra, where the spec is 32. Most modern carriers are 45-50ra and it matters. Gas rings dont last as long, and the gas seal often sucks which leads to malfunctions. The tail hole? ****, most shops don't even check them and it's critical.

The cam slots were revised on mil spec carriers in the 2000s because no one but Colt could make them right. They doubled the tolerance from .003 to .006 because FN told the government that it didn't matter and that "it's not possible in production", yet every colt carrier I ever checked was perfect. The increase in tolerance has resulted in accelerated wear to uppers.

Same with the chrome. Getting it right on the gas keys, carrier and barrel isn't easy. One of the super big names in the barrel making world is one of the lowest quality products on the market, btw. Even after getting a contract to supply m4s.

This is all based on personal experience too. Not hearsay. Colt does know what they're doing and they're forced to pay higher wages to boot. As a result their prices are higher, and not necessarily just because of the better quality but because of their legacy commitments to pensions and also because labor simply costs more where they are.

Lots of budget AR shops might as well be El Salvadoran sweat shops, and the quality is commensurate with that.

Well said

 

[Sublime one]

Well all this AR talk has the Instructor in me amped up. Somewhere in this thread a suggestion was made to get some training with your carbine (AR). I am always hesitant to promote our Company on FABO but since we do in fact specialize in defensive firearms training kind of seems ok on this thread. I can assure you that should you participate in our carbine class you will leave mentally and physically exhausted. Plus you will improve your shooting skills. I have attached a pix of yours truly with our Companies logo for an easy reference. Appears I am an international super model! Hah! I say bring all your carbines, Colt or not Colt and let’s run em. 600-800 rounds later you will know if your equipment is ready for the task. You can find us on FB or our Get Trained Be Ready website. Should any of you decide to sign up for a class send me a PM and I will get you a discount code. And honestly if you are rocking an AR for defense, regardless if you chose us as a training partner or not, get some professional training from somewhere. It is invaluable.

 

[doogievlg]

Well all this AR talk has the Instructor in me amped up. Somewhere in this thread a suggestion was made to get some training with your carbine (AR). I am always hesitant to promote our Company on FABO but since we do in fact specialize in defensive firearms training kind of seems ok on this thread. I can assure you that should you participate in our carbine class you will leave mentally and physically exhausted. Plus you will improve your shooting skills. I have attached a pix of yours truly with our Companies logo for an easy reference. Appears I am an international super model! Hah! I say bring all your carbines, Colt or not Colt and let’s run em. 600-800 rounds later you will know if your equipment is ready for the task. You can find us on FB or our Get Trained Be Ready website. Should any of you decide to sign up for a class send me a PM and I will get you a discount code. And honestly if you are rocking an AR for defense, regardless if you chose us as a training partner or not, get some professional training from somewhere. It is invaluable.

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You guys have a great website. Wish you all were a little closer but looks like a nice outfit.

 

[Sublime one]

You guys have a great website. Wish you all were a little closer but looks like a nice outfit.

Thank you so much for looking at us. Our curriculum has withstood the test of time and thousands of students. We are staffed with some great instructors, with some serious skill and expertise. We evolve and do our best to stay current and focused on what the community wants. To that end I am in the process of trying to become certified as a red dot instructor via the Modern Samurai Project. We are seeing a groundswell of folks utilizing red dots and while I do in fact compete with one I felt I was not as good of an instructor as I could be in that arena so I went to the best in the business for training. Modern Samurai is serious business on Red dot training. When I spoke about owning and operating a range I was serious! Hah! We have guest lodging on-site at the range in conjunction with classroom etc. see ya there!

 

[diymirage]

. When I spoke about owning and operating a range I was serious! Hah! We have guest lodging on-site at the range in conjunction with classroom etc. see ya there!

shoot, add a drag strip on the far end and you got every guys dream home


since you brought it up, what is so different about shooting with a red dot?

i have a very cheap one on my AK and i like it, i feel like its a little bit more forgiving then iron sight

 

[Sublime one]

shoot, add a drag strip on the far end and you got every guys dream home


since you brought it up, what is so different about shooting with a red dot?

i have a very cheap one on my AK and i like it, i feel like its a little bit more forgiving then iron sight

Without derailing the thread, the red dot really allows the shooter focus on the target, thus maintaining a far wider situational awareness. In addition for all of the folks on here who can no longer see the pistol sights due to deterioration of eyesight they really help. With the advent of dash cams, and a camera on every light pole we have now gathered hundreds of visual testimonies of what the bodies natural reaction is in a dynamic critical incident. We teach along those lines, the bodies instinctive reaction is amazing, the military has pounded muscle memory in our training for years without ever explaining the whys. Free bio lesson here, when stressed the body pulls blood away from the extremities to increase odds of survival. As a direct result, you lose fine motor skills in a high adrenaline situation. So we train over and over to rack slides with weak hand and not utilize the small slide release button with your thumb. In same light the body always crouches when startled again the bodies instinctive method to protect itself by presenting a smaller foot print. We incorporate that in our training as well. You don’t believe in the bodies ability to adapt? I will leave you with this challenge on your red dot, put a piece of electrical tape over the front of your red dot. When shooting with only one eye (why would you?) you have rendered the sight inoperable. Shoot with two eyes open and one eye will see target, one eye will pick up the red dot and your “third” eye will imprint the red dot on your target like the tape is not even there! Much quicker target acquisition than iron sights. Apologies for the length of response but I do love to teach!

 

[DustyDuster]

I am AR d out. Show some stile and get a Thompson

 

[Sublime one]

shoot, add a drag strip on the far end and you got every guys dream home


since you brought it up, what is so different about shooting with a red dot?

i have a very cheap one on my AK and i like it, i feel like its a little bit more forgiving then iron sight

I do have a bar? But sadly no drag strip!

 

[doogievlg]

Without derailing the thread, the red dot really allows the shooter focus on the target, thus maintaining a far wider situational awareness. In addition for all of the folks on here who can no longer see the pistol sights due to deterioration of eyesight they really help. With the advent of dash cams, and a camera on every light pole we have now gathered hundreds of visual testimonies of what the bodies natural reaction is in a dynamic critical incident. We teach along those lines, the bodies instinctive reaction is amazing, the military has pounded muscle memory in our training for years without ever explaining the whys. Free bio lesson here, when stressed the body pulls blood away from the extremities to increase odds of survival. As a direct result, you lose fine motor skills in a high adrenaline situation. So we train over and over to rack slides with weak hand and not utilize the small slide release button with your thumb. In same light the body always crouches when startled again the bodies instinctive method to protect itself by presenting a smaller foot print. We incorporate that in our training as well. You don’t believe in the bodies ability to adapt? I will leave you with this challenge on your red dot, put a piece of electrical tape over the front of your red dot. When shooting with only one eye (why would you?) you have rendered the sight inoperable. Shoot with two eyes open and one eye will see target, one eye will pick up the red dot and your “third” eye will imprint the red dot on your target like the tape is not even there! Much quicker target acquisition than iron sights. Apologies for the length of response but I do love to teach!

Really happy to see you aren’t anti red dot. It’s wild how many older guys at the range talk about red dots like they are a crutch. It’s typically coming from the guys that have never taken a shot in any position beside standing in a lane or sitting on a bench.

 

[Rat Bastid]

That’s one of my pet peeves. Guys run out and buy all the “kit” they can because they read magazines and watch YouTube videos. They end up with every trick of the week thing they can find.

The weapon is now much heavier, bulkier and less user friendly unless you are TRAINING a with it regularly.

And when you question them on all that stuff they say it’s because they want to shoot MOA or even sub MOA.

Then they get pissy when you tell them most of the weapons out there are far more capable then they are and that they would be better off without all that crap and spent the money and time for quality training.

But...we all know it’s easier and much more cool to hang all that **** off your weapon so you can show your buddies than it is to hit the range and do work to get better.

 

[Treblig]

No one will ever win this gun argument. Get what you like and use it!!. I have a scope and a laser...that's all I'll ever need. Laser for close range home defense and scope for longer range. Unless you plan to shoot hundreds and hundreds (or thousands) of rounds (tons of money) get the gun you like and have fun!!! Oh, I forgot, i also have a back up....... Bond Arms pocket Derringer (45 long colt/410 000 Buck shot).

 

[Sublime one]

That’s one of my pet peeves. Guys run out and buy all the “kit” they can because they read magazines and watch YouTube videos. They end up with every trick of the week thing they can find.

The weapon is now much heavier, bulkier and less user friendly unless you are TRAINING a with it regularly.

And when you question them on all that stuff they say it’s because they want to shoot MOA or even sub MOA.

Then they get pissy when you tell them most of the weapons out there are far more capable then they are and that they would be better off without all that crap and spent the money and time for quality training.

But...we all know it’s easier and much more cool to hang all that **** off your weapon so you can show your buddies than it is to hit the range and do work to get better.

I laughed out loud reading this. I cannot tell you how many folks I have seen show up at the range with every single attachment known to man on their rifle. By noon or at the very least prior to day two of training they are rubbing their necks and have stripped the rifle back to essentials only. Less is more, we learned that in the desert! Hah!

 

[Sublime one]

No one will ever win this gun argument. Get what you like and use it!!. I have a scope and a laser...that's all I'll ever need. Laser for close range home defense and scope for longer range. Unless you plan to shoot hundreds and hundreds (or thousands) of rounds (tons of money) get the gun you like and have fun!!! Oh, I forgot, i also have a back up....... Bond Arms pocket Derringer (45 long colt/410 000 Buck shot).

This is so very true, I get asked almost daily what is best pistol or rifle to carry, my standard reply is simply, whatever one that makes you comfortable and you are effective with. There is just no one size fits all answer. It is like asking what is best color for your Mopar? Well duh… Sublime of course! Hah!

 

[Treblig]

This is so very true, I get asked almost daily what is best pistol or rifle to carry, my standard reply is simply, whatever one that makes you comfortable and you are effective with. There is just no one size fits all answer. It is like asking what is best color for your Mopar? Well duh… Sublime of course! Hah!

"Sublime" is pretty cool....... No matter what kind of gun you have!!! But the mint green 340 6 pack Barracuda with glitter shake hood I bought back in '74 was a pretty nice color also????

 

[Sublime one]

No one will ever win this gun argument. Get what you like and use it!!. I have a scope and a laser...that's all I'll ever need. Laser for close range home defense and scope for longer range. Unless you plan to shoot hundreds and hundreds (or thousands) of rounds (tons of money) get the gun you like and have fun!!! Oh, I forgot, i also have a back up....... Bond Arms pocket Derringer (45 long colt/410 000 Buck shot).

Well dang it, I have shot just under 2400 rounds so far this month so I am certainly guilty as charged! But I am finishing up some Winter league matches. And yes I reload my own. Dillion for the win! And they build the best machine guns on the planet!

 

[Treblig]

Well dang it, I have shot just under 2400 rounds so far this month so I am certainly guilty as charged! But I am finishing up some Winter league matches. And yes I reload my own. Dillion for the win! And they build the best machine guns on the planet!

WOW!!...you're a lucky dude to be able to shoot that many rounds!! I think I would be sore from all that shooting!!! At my age I can barely handle 2 or 3 hundred rounds at a time? My Rattler and my Scorpion can shoot as fast as I can pull the trigger but the next day I pay the price!!! But I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rat Bastid]

Well dang it, I have shot just under 2400 rounds so far this month so I am certainly guilty as charged! But I am finishing up some Winter league matches. And yes I reload my own. Dillion for the win! And they build the best machine guns on the planet!

Reloading...another addiction.

 

[go-fish]

For all the Palmetto State fanboys:

They suck. Suck as a company, suck for quality, and suck at customer service. I'll tell you why.
For reference, I have extensive experience with firearms, military and civilian. With my time in Naval Special Warfare I have fired just about everything in the Navy's Table of Allotment (Sig 228, 226, M4, GAU-17, M2, M240, M203, Mk19, M32, ... )
I build all my AR's and have put them together for others. I have built many 80% lowers with a router and CNC machine. I quit doing them when I lost access to CNC capabilities. For the last few years I have been building with Aero Precision uppers and lowers with Ballistic Advantage barrels. I use Aero small parts or JP if available. I have built from other boutique suppliers as well but for the price/quality Aero Precision is the way to go. I get a bitchin military discount as well.
Recently, I was training the boy in the forest where we live. The wifey rarely shoots but she wanted to tag along. She loved the experience so I decided I would throw something together just for her.
I didn't want to make this into one of my $X,*** builds so I decided to go slummin' and went to Palmetto State's site. Prices seemed great! I don't know how into it she would be and a budget rifle would suit her just fine. I purchased a Dissipator upper and I was impressed with it. It is a mid length barrel with a rifle length gas system and a fixed front site. I'm not going to spend money on an optic for her unless she really gets into shooting. I also purchased the bolt carrier group and a charging handle at the same time.
After receiving these items I decided to stick with one company and looked at their lowers and parts kits. The lower receiver I bought took 12 weeks to be delivered to my FFL! It was only supposed to take 8 weeks because it was a limited edition run of lowers. I figured I would get the "Because Covid" excuse so I didn't start calling until 10 weeks. Guess what? No answer so I emailed. I got the Covid excuse. Short staffed. And they were rude about it. I was wanting to do this as her birthday present but it turned into her Christmas present.
Anyway, got all the pats in and assembled it. She was excited to get it on Christmas morning. We go outside and shoot a couple of magazines and found out that the bolt catch doesn't operate correctly. I switched BCG's with mine and it wasn't their bolt carrier, however, my bolt would not catch in the PSA rifle. Confirmed: bolt catch.
I called them up. 3 tries. 1 hour on hold and the phone lost connection. Next 45 minutes on hold and I had to hang up an do something. Finally, the third call and about 50 minutes on hold I got an Indian fella. Dot, not feather. They were eager to send me a new bolt catch. Almost like they had heard this story before!
I got the part and installed it. DOESN'T WORK! Bolt doesn't stay open on the last round! Bolt cannot be held open for inspection of the chamber. I don't think the wifey will be doing tactical reloads but I would at least like to train her to do as such. Holding the bolt open for inspection is also important. Plain and simple, this issue would have had this rifle decommissioned if it was a military rifle.
The issue that I have found is that the pin that holds the bolt catch is drilled to low and the catch sits too low to catch the bolt carrier. NOT MIL-SPEC!
Any company can put Mil-Spec on their website but deviate. Palmetto State Armory is a Wal-Mart brand of rifles. I would have been better off buying that Colt that was in the link in Post #1. It would have worked and I could have at least sold it and made my money back due to it's name and pedigree.
There is a difference between manufacturers even if they both claim to be mil-spec.

 

[DodgeLad]

They suck. Suck as a company, suck for quality, and suck at customer service.

Well you win some and you lose some. I'll just buy something better if it doesn't work out. I will win in the end and I'll not let a few hundred bucks bring me down.

 

[Dartswinger70]

What you run into Colt vs others is the parts kits, the takedown pins are different sizes etc. Its probably a non issue but i would think Colt is true to the original late 50s 1960s mil specs. My Ar is a Buishmaster bought 20 years ago i have no complaints,it looks liek an M 16 no collapsible stock, no picatinny rails and all that extra chit people put on them just iron sights etc

 

[go-fish]

Well you win some and you lose some. I'll just buy something better if it doesn't work out. I will win in the end and I'll not let a few hundred bucks bring me down.

Hopefully you have better results. This has been my one and only experience with PSA. I'm a grudgeholder too so I will never buy anything else from them. A lot of times with me a business will only get one chance.

 

[doogievlg]

No one will ever win this gun argument. Get what you like and use it!!. I have a scope and a laser...that's all I'll ever need. Laser for close range home defense and scope for longer range. Unless you plan to shoot hundreds and hundreds (or thousands) of rounds (tons of money) get the gun you like and have fun!!! Oh, I forgot, i also have a back up....... Bond Arms pocket Derringer (45 long colt/410 000 Buck shot).

Don’t mean to offend you but if you aren’t shooting hundreds of rounds a year or thousands than you probably could use some practice. Ammo isn’t cheap but I’d say there are some things worth spending the money on. I am not a great shot by any means and I certainly need more professional training and I am going out around 3 times a month. One way we keep cost down is running timed drills. Drawing and reloading drills can be done with as little as two rounds. Load one round in two magazines and go to town.

 

[MoparLeo]

No matter what you get, if you do not go out and shoot it regularly, it won't matter. Anything you do if you want to do it well requires putting in your time, Body building, bowling, shooting pool, shooting, reaction times, and on and on. It doesn't come free. Commitment.
Most weapon malfunctions are not part related. Owner maintenance, shooting technique.
The most problem firearm component would be magazines. Get the best quality you can find, protect them from damage, especially the feedlips,
Get a progressive loader so you ca n afford to feed it. Do not store powder, primers in a security safe. Powder should be stored in a proper container. It needs to be vented. Expanding gases in a confined area = explosion instead of just a burn.
Shotgun ammo for the home. Not buckshot. You are dealing with distances less than 20 feet. 1 oz. of #8 shot carries the same energy as 1 oz of buckshot.
Difference is buckshot pellets individually carry more energy which means they will penetrate more per pellet. Not wanted in the home. A miss is 90% more likely than a hit regardless of what you may think. You don not want projectiles going through walls etc.. where others may be hiding or in another room. Maybe your family members.
Shotguns do not pattern in real life like they do in the movies. Even a sawed off barrel will not pattern larger than your fist inside a house.
Always follow the basic firearm safety rules. Every gun is loaded, always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Never have the muzzle pointed in a direction that you don't want to fire at. Never shoot to wound. There are no such things as accidents. Only carelessness, lack of concentration.
Join a gun club, support 2nd amendment political candidates. Be aggressive if you want to keep your rights.
Take your kids shooting, attend a hunter safety course, take gun safe handling classes. Be aware of your surroundings.

 

[diymirage]

That’s one of my pet peeves. Guys run out and buy all the “kit” they can because they read magazines and watch YouTube videos. They end up with every trick of the week thing they can find.

The weapon is now much heavier, bulkier and less user friendly unless you are TRAINING a with it regularly.

And when you question them on all that stuff they say it’s because they want to shoot MOA or even sub MOA.

Then they get pissy when you tell them most of the weapons out there are far more capable then they are and that they would be better off without all that crap and spent the money and time for quality training.

But...we all know it’s easier and much more cool to hang all that **** off your weapon so you can show your buddies than it is to hit the range and do work to get better.

 

[Louie70Dart]

I like Ruger. I had a Mk II .22 years ago and shot the daylights out of it. Currently have a SR 1911 that I like. Was wanting a AR style and found a basic model for under $700. Opinions on Ruger?