1972 Dodge Colt

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Hyper_pak said:
I don't think the launch broke it, the clutchless shift did something to second.
Lots of higher HP V8 have run the 833 without problems.
Using a clutch.

If you look at the power path through a 833....
It comes in, drops down to the countershaft and then back up to the main.
Only thing that changes is each gear you select.
It's not going through each gear.

The Lenco has the additional gear boxes in neutral.
So as you make a shift and add a gear box the power loss is added till you get to the last gear box.

That is how I understand it.
Click to expand...
Actually, each unit has an underdrive and a direct. As you shift each unit, the clutches lock it up straight through that unit (one to one).
So a 4 speed has 3 units in underdrive for the start. Pull a lever locking one unit puts you in 2nd gear, the next is 3rd gear and the last is high gear (all 3 units locked one to one). The other lever is for a separate unit which has neutral and reverse.
 
Early xtreme trans with Joe Liberty.
Joe Liberty 2.JPG
 
All the stick racers(Coyote Stock & Pro Stick guys) I 've spoke with do not use clutch when shifting.They either lift momentarily or use a strain gauge to interrupt load off lugs.G-Force tells them shift it like its not yours, don't have to use the clutch. I would think all faceplated/dog ring trannys are similar.
A true clutchless never crosses neutral. Its always in a gear.
 
You can also use an ignition interrupt during shifting to unload the transmission just long enough to shift. A button on the shifter is the most common way of implementing that. I have seen a pneumatic solenoid used for clutch actuation before operated from a shifter trigger, too. I think “no lift power shifting” is still the best plan of action if you’re limited to a stock type transmission. First and foremost, get your rear suspension tuned in to the best of your abilities first.
 
RTSE4ME said:
All the stick racers(Coyote Stock & Pro Stick guys) I 've spoke with do not use clutch when shifting.They either lift momentarily or use a strain gauge to interrupt load off lugs.G-Force tells them shift it like its not yours, don't have to use the clutch. I would think all faceplated/dog ring trannys are similar.
A true clutchless never crosses neutral. Its always in a gear.
Click to expand...

Ths CS guys use 101a with only .5* face angles on the lugs, allows them to shift under full power without unloading. Only takes them about .043sec to cross neutral, which results in about a 200rpm flare between gears. The low angle lugs are not a problem for a drag only car, but you can't rely on them to stay in gear during casual driving.

My street/strip car has more common 7* lugs, which require unloading for the shifts. I use the clutch pedal to shift WOT, no power cut. Much bigger flare. The flare is the result of the energy produced while the trans crosses neutral getting stored in the engine's rotating assy as additional rpm, but then that stored energy gets put to work after the shift. For the typical drag racer, strain gauge shifting makes no sense to me. Why cut power anywhere between the start/finish lines if you don't need to?

Grant
 
Last edited:
Hyper_pak said:
I don't think the launch broke it, the clutchless shift did something to second.
Lots of higher HP V8 have run the 833 without problems.
Using a clutch.

If you look at the power path through a 833....
It comes in, drops down to the countershaft and then back up to the main.
Only thing that changes is each gear you select.
It's not going through each gear.

The Lenco has the additional gear boxes in neutral.
So as you make a shift and add a gear box the power loss is added till you get to the last gear box.

That is how I understand it.
Click to expand...
W/o having to go back, what weight flywheel are You running Stan? The inertial mass of that porky Slanty crank + the flywheel is instantly going to drop to the 2nd gear rpm unless there is clutch slip or tire spin, the bigger the gap between 1st & 2nd, the more violent the shock load on the trans, I'm not a big clutch-free shift fan.....
 
Hyper_pak said:
29 pound flywheel.
Installed a lighter crank when I refreshed the engine a couple years ago.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I remembered the switch to the later crank, so You've got ~130# of rotating mass @shift rpm alone.....ouch..then an instant drop of 1800-2400 depending on the 1st to 2nd split @ a 6200rpm shift.
I was still working on the best shift technique w/the crashbox I made, never drove a faceplated box, so I can't help with the choice of clutch slapping vs lift&shift or a combo therof.
 
The double countershaft in the Liberty (like a semi truck transmission) also helps a lot in load distribution in the case. I’ve seen Don Garlits describe it as the main shaft shift collars “floating” between the countershafts on a short “Inside NHRA” during an event.
 
Last edited:

It was always a Hemi and Lenco till it was sold less engine and trans to the Northwest.
Milodon Hemi installed by Gary Emig in KC.
Mostly B/FX, some Pro at local division tracks and then Pro Gas.
There is a rumor of it running in the eights.
Would have been high 8's.
I do know it went 149 miles and hour.
I know they ran a 426, a 396 and a 366 hemi at one time.
The 366 was not a good engine.
The 396 was built by Gary Ostrich in Colorado.
 
Hyper_pak said:
It was always a Hemi and Lenco till it was sold less engine and trans to the Northwest.
Milodon Hemi installed by Gary Emig in KC.
Mostly B/FX, some Pro at local division tracks and then Pro Gas.
There is a rumor of it running in the eights.
Would have been high 8's.
I do know it went 149 miles and hour.
I know they ran a 426, a 396 and a 366 hemi at one time.
The 366 was not a good engine.
The 396 was built by Gary Ostrich in Colorado.
Click to expand...

thats some history
 
Back from Dart Lite Hell!
Moved the trailer under my leanto today and unloaded the Colt.
Poor little girl has been lonely in the trailer for a few months.
Went over to Xtreme for The Muscle Club race.
Met some cool Mopar folks and saw some cool cars.
Got the Jucies Flowing again.
Rocking Robin, Bob, was over there with his Duster going rounds like he always does.
Pretty cool little Comet to.
No cool chebies
20250824_132240.jpg
20250824_132327.jpg
20250824_134801.jpg


This is the plan.
Measure the rear end location, fix if needed.
Remove the transmission, fix if po$$ible, else install the 2.66 Liberty.
Move clutch pedal travel closer to driver to try and eliminate staging lane creep.
Re-adjust the clutch stop.
Move the seat down and back to get my head and helmet in a better location.
Move rear shocks to the middle of their travel, adjust valving based on the log book.
Roll bar camera mount for video documentation.
Oil change, run the valves look for stuff under the cover.
Change slicks right to left.
Drain and measure fuel quantity.
Pin the vent cap and look at adding the header oil vapor vent system.
I have an aussie speed cover with two vents so that part will be easy.
And anything else I have forgotten.
Shooting for MOKAN November 1.
 
Nice to see you again, Stan! Sorry I didn't have more time to chat, but it looks like you had a lot of people to go say hi to. I hope you get to MOKAN and have great success!
 
That Comet is clean, I saw it Auto Rama after the build and before they started racing it. Miss you guys and going to these races
 
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