1974 Plymouth Duster no power through bulkhead.

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I have recently come into possession of my days 74 Duster. He drag raced the car 20+ years ago, but kept it mostly stock, just installed a B&M shifter, autometer tach, Slicks, Line lock, and electric fan/water pump. When I picked the car up, it had been sitting for 18ish years untouched. after a weekend of cleaning and other odds and ends (fresh gas, air filter, and scraping all the old racing stickers off the windows), it actually started and ran. Soon after, it stopped getting spark. I have replaced the battery, starter, starter solenoid, ignition control module, ballast resistor, distributor, coil, ignition switch (twice), And most recently replaced the wiring harness under the dash and in the engine bay. After all of this it is still not getting spark, or have power to anything past the firewall except the voltmeter. Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
It's a '74, so it has the one-year-only seat belt interlock system on it.
Look under the hood, between the master cylinder and the inner fender IIRC, and you'll see a module that looks like this
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or this
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Push the red button to reset the system. It cuts off power if you try to start the car without the seatbelts fastened.
There's a number of threads on here describing how to bypass the switch, do a search.
If resetting the interlock does not change anything, or the interlock has already been bypassed, you may have taken out a fusible link- check the wiring diagrams in the FSM for location. If you don't have a FSM, you can download one for free at MyMopar.com .
 
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I have recently come into possession of my days 74 Duster. He drag raced the car 20+ years ago, but kept it mostly stock, just installed a B&M shifter, autometer tach, Slicks, Line lock, and electric fan/water pump. When I picked the car up, it had been sitting for 18ish years untouched. after a weekend of cleaning and other odds and ends (fresh gas, air filter, and scraping all the old racing stickers off the windows), it actually started and ran. Soon after, it stopped getting spark. I have replaced the battery, starter, starter solenoid, ignition control module, ballast resistor, distributor, coil, ignition switch (twice), And most recently replaced the wiring harness under the dash and in the engine bay. After all of this it is still not getting spark, or have power to anything past the firewall except the voltmeter. Does anyone have any suggestions?
A lot of changed items and some very non stock items.
Post some photos of the engine bay wiring and we can figure out what is there, and then walk you through finding the problem.

The photos most helpful will be
Battery to starter relay
Inner fender and firewall showing ECU, ballast resistors, and multi-connector.
That's also where the seatbelt interlock overide switch will be - if its still present.

Additionally lets see the wiring to the fan and water pump - and if you can where that wire connects.
Finally, a photo of the instrument panel because the factory panel didn't have voltmeter.
 
A lot of changed items and some very non stock items.
Post some photos of the engine bay wiring and we can figure out what is there, and then walk you through finding the problem.

The photos most helpful will be
Battery to starter relay
Inner fender and firewall showing ECU, ballast resistors, and multi-connector.
That's also where the seatbelt interlock overide switch will be - if its still present.

Additionally lets see the wiring to the fan and water pump - and if you can where that wire connects.
Finally, a photo of the instrument panel because the factory panel didn't have voltmeter.
I will try to get some photos of it today, it is at my father-in-law's house currently while trying to get it going.

The aftermarket items, I do know, have been wired outside of the harness with in line fuses and breakers and power supplied from the starter relay post, aside from currently the one aftermarket gauge that I explain toward the end of this reply. The tach is currently unwired where I replaced the harnesses. It was the only thing spliced into the harness when I got it and just the power wire on an ignition power source.
I have tried the reset on the seatbelt interlock, where I had seen that in another thread, but I have not bypassed it.
The wiring currently is new "plug and Play" from classic industries and matched everything to a t on wire color and connectors. The only issue with the wiring harness is that it didn't come with the wiper motor harness. I know this is a stupid question, but is it possible that that harness is leaving some circuit incomplete, where it plugs into the bulk head connector and currently is not there?
On the subject of the "voltmeter" I meant the alternator gauge in the cluster. It has alternator, fuel, and speedometer. that gauge in the cluster is inoperable because the posts on the back are loose from age and probably some questionable removable of the cluster at some point (I was overly careful in my removal and reinstallation because the car has sat for 18 years and I have broken plenty a plastic item on much newer vehicles), so that is currently the only thing aftermarket that is wired in, but utilizing the wiring harness connectors to supply power to the aftermarket gauge without splicing or cutting. that will show power with the key on, but that is the only thing getting power in the interior with a tester.
 
OK. I can touch on some things with the additional info.
The wiper motors always had their wire harness, and yes some years/options the connector plug at the bulkhead has wires for other circuits. We can see what circuits go in that connector by looking at the factroy wiring diagrams. These are in the back of the electrical section of the 1974 Chassis Manual and the Body Manual.

It may be possible to route the tach circuits the same as a the factory did. We can come back to that. There were lots of variations by factory.

Seatbelt interlock will prevent the starter relay from working. The starter won't crank. Everything else will still work.
This will make more sense when looking at a schematic for the power supplies.

The 'alternator' gage is an ammeter showing current flowing in or out of the battery.
If the battery is discharging when the engine is running, then the alternator is not working.
I suspect they named it 'alternator gage' back in 1960 to emphasize their cars and trucks had alternators not generators. Ammeters were pretty standard back then so everyone was familiar with what they indicate. The normal position of the ammeter varies depending on what the battery is doing but most othe time its centered - zero.

If the car had a leak in that area, then the panel and connections get messed up. I'm not sure how common that problem was in '74 but the early 70s cars had a reputation for that. The rest of the factory gages are completely seperate. They get power through the key switch which is then limited to an average 5-6 Volts.

Here's the basic scheme of a '74 Duster with standard wiring. There were some heavy duty options, most commonly on cars equiped with electric rear window defrost grids. The circuit concept is the same, but the main power (from alternator and battery) goes through grommets in the firewall. If you're car has that you'll have to adapt the standard harness as the factory did.

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The battery and the alternator output are joined to the other circuits at a welded splice hidden in the harness. That's the solid black circle. Since the battery is connected to all those wires, they are hot at all times. Dome light, brake lights, headlights, horn, all work even with the key off.

When the key is in Run position, the power feed to the key switch is connected to both the Ignition run (J2) circuit and the Accessory circuit (Q2). Wipers are on Q2 but have no fuse. There's a circuit breaker usually in the switch.

The ammeter is a solid metal plate with two studs pressed in. When electrons are moving through the plate, the needle is deflected by the small electromagnetic field generated. No current, no deflection.
If the ammeter studs are loose, the ammeter must be replaced or repaired. Electrons can't jump gaps or go through corrosion without generating heat and loosing power. If the ammeter shows near max either charging or discharging, something is very wrong. Shut down and if that doesn't solve it, disconnnect the battery.
 
IIRC Mymopar doesn't have the '74 Shop manuals but they may have the extracts of the wiring diagrams included in the Wiring diagram zip file. I say that because I have a digital copy on my computer/


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Yes the wiper connector also has the backup lights and key to starter relay wire.
When reading the factory diagrams.
R is for alteRnator wires
A is code for bAttery wire
J is code for Ignition (interpret that loosely). J2 is Ignition Run and engine related including alternator feed. J3 is Ignition Start.
L is for lights
H is for Horn
B is Backup
S is Starter
V is Wipers
S is for Start and since yours is a '74, the seatbelt interlock made the start circuits more complicated.


There's a 1974 Master Tech filmstrip and booklet about using the new style of diagrams and explains all of the wire codes.
pdf version here: Browse MTSC by Model Year – 1974 – MyMopar
Use the wiring diagram to make your own drawing of the circuit(s) you are interested in.

Complete descriptive listing of the Master Booklets and films is here:
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics
Once you know the year to look under you may want to go to back to the mymopar website to view them in pdf format.
 
On the subject of the "voltmeter" I meant the alternator gauge in the cluster. It has alternator, fuel, and speedometer. that gauge in the cluster is inoperable because the posts on the back are loose from age and probably some questionable removable of the cluster at some point
Does this mean the ammeter is not hooked up at all?
The ammeter is an "inline" gauge, and an integral part of the main circuit. If just left disconnected, you won't have power to a great deal of the car.
If you don't feel comfortable with the condition of the ammeter and prefer to eliminate it (even if just temporarily), the two leads that connect to it need to be joined together once removed from the gauge. A small machine screw and nut are all that is needed to connect the two ring terminals, and wrap it well with electrical tape.
 
IIRC Mymopar doesn't have the '74 Shop manuals but they may have the extracts of the wiring diagrams included in the Wiring diagram zip file. I say that because I have a digital copy on my computer/


View attachment 1716473503

Yes the wiper connector also has the backup lights and key to starter relay wire.
When reading the factory diagrams.
R is for alteRnator wires
A is code for bAttery wire
J is code for Ignition (interpret that loosely). J2 is Ignition Run and engine related including alternator feed. J3 is Ignition Start.
L is for lights
H is for Horn
B is Backup
S is Starter
V is Wipers
S is for Start and since yours is a '74, the seatbelt interlock made the start circuits more complicated.


There's a 1974 Master Tech filmstrip and booklet about using the new style of diagrams and explains all of the wire codes.
pdf version here: Browse MTSC by Model Year – 1974 – MyMopar
Use the wiring diagram to make your own drawing of the circuit(s) you are interested in.

Complete descriptive listing of the Master Booklets and films is here:
Master Technician Service Conference - Chrysler's Training for Mechanics
Once you know the year to look under you may want to go to back to the mymopar website to view them in pdf format.
All of this is fantastic information and I am forever grateful! I am headed over there this afternoon to grab those pictures and scratch my head on it a little more with this new information. I also have a full car schematic ordered that should be here Monday, but I will definitely be referring to this information for now.
 
Does this mean the ammeter is not hooked up at all?
The ammeter is an "inline" gauge, and an integral part of the main circuit. If just left disconnected, you won't have power to a great deal of the car.
If you don't feel comfortable with the condition of the ammeter and prefer to eliminate it (even if just temporarily), the two leads that connect to it need to be joined together once removed from the gauge. A small machine screw and nut are all that is needed to connect the two ring terminals, and wrap it well with electrical tape.
The wires from the factory gauge are connected to an aftermarket gauge.
 
A lot of changed items and some very non stock items.
Post some photos of the engine bay wiring and we can figure out what is there, and then walk you through finding the problem.

The photos most helpful will be
Battery to starter relay
Inner fender and firewall showing ECU, ballast resistors, and multi-connector.
That's also where the seatbelt interlock overide switch will be - if its still present.

Additionally lets see the wiring to the fan and water pump - and if you can where that wire connects.
Finally, a photo of the instrument panel because the factory panel didn't have voltmeter.
I was able to get there and get some work done on it yesterday, as well as grab some pictures of the engine bay wiring. Before I get into the pictures, there are some updates from yesterdays work. The Ammeter was the issue getting power through the firewall. After those wires were removed from the aftermarket gauge, power began to make it through the dash and rest of the car. We still were not getting spark, so we began to test continuity and use a test light to see where we got power and where it stopped. all of this referring to start sequence schematics that I found in another post on here a month ago when this all started. We decided that we would try the spare ignition switch we have, and that gave us power to the ignition components, but still not getting spark. The ignition switch is also, still not activating the starter and a push button is needed for that (this was working previously when the ignition switch was a known problem). I also tried the reset button on the seatbelt interlock with no change to anything.
On the pictures... it is a mess to look at, but the wiring harness is all new and neatly wrapped. The mess are the aftermarket items that aren't connected into the harness anywhere other than powered off of the starter relay.
In the second picture, the wire that is circled in blue is the ground wire that had been ran from the tach that is now completely unwired. The plug circled in purple was never plugged to anything.
In the fourth picture of the starter relay, the neutral safety wire that is cut is wired into the B&M shifter's neutral safety switch, and was also working wired like this previously.
In the sixth picture, the plug and gray wire circled in green were also not plugged into anything previously.
Last, in the last picture, the black wire with rubber boot that I am holding up was not plugged into anything even with the car running, and comes out of the engine harness below the washer fluid tank. It reaches up to the battery. I cant find that wire on any schematic, but it was on both the old harness that came out and the new harness that was put in.

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The Ammeter was the issue getting power through the firewall. After those wires were removed from the aftermarket gauge, power began to make it through the dash and rest of the car.

Most aftermarket ammeters work the same as the factory. Power from the battey flows through them.
At one time these were super common 'cause most Chevies were getting warning warning lights and hot rodders wanted their gages.
1762095167236.png

So disconnecting should have stopped the power flow.
Possibilities are:
a. You connected the feed wires together
b. The ammeter is a shunted ammeter which internally has high resistance. The power flows around it through an external shunt.
c. Its a voltmeter which has very high resistance. No power flows through voltmeters.
d. Someone connected the ammeter to ground creating a short. A dangerous short to boot.
 
Most aftermarket ammeters work the same as the factory. Power from the battey flows through them.
At one time these were super common 'cause most Chevies were getting warning warning lights and hot rodders wanted their gages.
View attachment 1716474098
So disconnecting should have stopped the power flow.
Possibilities are:
a. You connected the feed wires together
b. The ammeter is a shunted ammeter which internally has high resistance. The power flows around it through an external shunt.
c. Its a voltmeter which has very high resistance. No power flows through voltmeters.
d. Someone connected the ammeter to ground creating a short. A dangerous short to boot.
for sake of testing the wires were connected together. on the gauge front.
 
The ignition switch is also, still not activating the starter and a push button is needed for that (this was working previously when the ignition switch was a known problem). I also tried the reset button on the seatbelt interlock with no change to anything.

Since the car was a race car, a pushbutton start is not surprising. Not a big deal.
To make the factory set up work, there needs to be power to the starter relay S terminal and a path to ground. Without opening the diagrams, S2 is probably start and S4 maybe the path to the neutral safety switch.
For the ignition to get power with key in start position, circut J3 is needed.
1762096365841.png

In the bulkhead we see S2 and J3 but not S4. S4 could be for the seatbelt interlock in which case its irrelevant if you jumper at the underhood switch.

Next photo is the 'engine connector' and I don't see the J3
1762096497948.png


looks like there's no J2 either
1762096668852.png
 
Since the car was a race car, a pushbutton start is not surprising. Not a big deal.
To make the factory set up work, there needs to be power to the starter relay S terminal and a path to ground. Without opening the diagrams, S2 is probably start and S4 maybe the path to the neutral safety switch.
For the ignition to get power with key in start position, circut J3 is needed.
View attachment 1716474101
In the bulkhead we see S2 and J3 but not S4. S4 could be for the seatbelt interlock in which case its irrelevant if you jumper at the underhood switch.

Next photo is the 'engine connector' and I don't see the J3
View attachment 1716474102

looks like there's no J2 either
View attachment 1716474103
S4 looks like it plugs into the bulk head from the wiper motor harness. is that correct? and the missing J3, that connector is connected how it was on the old harness over at the firewall below the coil.
 
The mess are the aftermarket items that aren't connected into the harness anywhere other than powered off of the starter relay.
In general, taking power at that junction is easy but electrically bad.
Some thing really do need battery power. Something like a winch that draws 50 or 100 amps, or the starter which draws over 100 amps.
Most items should get their power from the alternator or as short of a path from the alternator as is reasonable.
Reasons:
Least resistance.
On the downstream side of the fusible link. No reason to pass additional power through this weak link.
Places the branch on the correct side of the ammeter. Anything drawing power from the battery side of the ammeter will show as battery charging. That's just confusing.
 
In the second picture, the wire that is circled in blue is the ground wire that had been ran from the tach that is now completely unwired. The plug circled in purple was never plugged to anything.
This doesn't make sense to me. What brand and model tach is on the car?
I'd disconnect and tape the ground for now.
The other IDK I can't even see it.
In the fourth picture of the starter relay, the neutral safety wire that is cut is wired into the B&M shifter's neutral safety switch, and was also working wired like this previously.
Should be OK then.
In the sixth picture, the plug and gray wire circled in green were also not plugged into anything previously.
The connector with the double is probably for the choke assist. Follow the J2 branches on the diagram and then look at the CE connector charts

The connector in the last photo looks to me like the ones used on the brake warning switch.

The terminal blocks on the fender look really corroded. I wouldn't use them. Replace or toss and/or come up with some new junctions. What's best depends on what you will be doing with the car.
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This looks like a circuit breaker
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S4 looks like it plugs into the bulk head from the wiper motor harness. is that correct? and the missing J3, that connector is connected how it was on the old harness over at the firewall below the coil.
S4 is the neutral safety so it looks like that is taken care of by the splice to the B&M.
You can always make it nicer but seems functional for now.
 
Most items should get their power from the alternator or as short of a path from the alternator as is reasonable.
Reasons:
Least resistance.
On the downstream side of the fusible link. No reason to pass additional power through this weak link.
Places the branch on the correct side of the ammeter. Anything drawing power from the battery side of the ammeter will show as battery charging. That's just confusing.

1762099950318.png
 
A couple things to note for '74
On the diagram J3 designation is used for both the ignition start wire and the wire segment connecting the half ohm ballast resistor to the coil.

The S2 wire branches with one branch going to the interlock box and the other branch going to the override switch. S1 is the normal path for powering the starter relay when the interlock is working properly. If its not, just connect the S2 wires together at the switch under the hood.
(The switch under the hood is set up to disengage when the key goes back to run.)

1762101626009.png
 
Revising that to show where the engine connector CE37 fits into the J2 and J3 circuit according to the '74 diagram for a V-8
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In case you haven't seen these.
Removing the OEM type terminals from the connectors is pretty easy once you've done a few. This way you can salvage the windsheild wiper connector and move circuits etc.

and last couple pages here
 
This doesn't make sense to me. What brand and model tach is on the car?
I'd disconnect and tape the ground for now.
The other IDK I can't even see it.

Should be OK then.

The connector with the double is probably for the choke assist. Follow the J2 branches on the diagram and then look at the CE connector charts

The connector in the last photo looks to me like the ones used on the brake warning switch.

The terminal blocks on the fender look really corroded. I wouldn't use them. Replace or toss and/or come up with some new junctions. What's best depends on what you will be doing with the car.
View attachment 1716474106

This looks like a circuit breaker
View attachment 1716474109
correct those are breakers and are just wired into the line lock and the fan/water pump motor. the only place these two connect to the car are where they are mounted and power from the starter relay.
 
Update, still scratching our heads. Finally got power to the coil, but it is only just over 4 volts and still no spark. I read in another post here on for a bodies only that less than 6-10 volts to the coil points to the ballast not getting enough voltage from the ignition? Slowly getting closer I think, but not quite there it seems.
 
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