Bondo/fiberglass as the right choice

[Kemper]

That varies DRASTICALLY across the country depending on area, probably 2x-3x difference is possible from what I understand. Az is much cheaper than other parts of the country.

Well, I certainly feel I will never have a problem with a repair I did according to the estimates on that. I am , as always, under the impression that a metal repair is better in terms of reliability. I don't think it is the best choice in many situations.
I never look at it as metal vs bondo in competition as to which is considered best or which adds more value to the car.
I look at fiberglass repairs as an alternative and I believe it is the right alternative for many and I believe metal is the right way to go for many.

 

[junkyardhero]

Can I ask what are you really trying to get at with this thread? Are you trying to decide how to proceed with a project?

Jim, he's trying to justify the hacky bondo repairs that he's been desperately trying to pass off as legitimate "preservation" work or as a misguided "more viable and affordable" option to, you know, actually repairing it properly.

to give you some idea of the nonsense he's peddling: here's his quality lower quarter repair

yes. that is bondo, galvanized mesh screen and fiberglass.

he wants so badly to have somebody agree with him that he's willing to ask series of leading questions in hopes of that.

 

[Kemper]

Can I ask what are you really trying to get at with this thread? Are you trying to decide how to proceed with a project?

What I said in my OP . No, I feel my limited expertise is fine for the vehicles I have but am always open for info helpful in my parameters.

 

[mopar head]

He just likes trolling the guys that do metal and weld repairs

 

[Jim Kueneman]

Jim, he's trying to justify the hacky bondo repairs that he's been desperately trying to pass off as legitimate "preservation" work or as a misguided "more viable and affordable" option to, you know, actually repairing it properly.

to give you some idea of the nonsense he's peddling: here's his quality lower quarter repair

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yes. that is bondo, galvanized mesh screen and fiberglass.

he wants so badly to have somebody agree with him that he's willing to ask series of leading questions in hopes of that.

So I’m not totally against what I see there. George Barris did lots of fiberglass custom cars. If all the rust is removed like cutting out on the metal that has rust on the backside then that is a way to do it. What is a total hack is to try to pass off you can sand rust off the exterior of the car, then fill it with fiberglass and expect it to last. The rust has to be gone from the backside too, period.

The disclaimer is making sure it is clear to a future buyer how the repair was done.

 

[72bluNblu]

72bluNblu said:
....Welds don’t need to be covered with anything different than any other metal. It they’re structural just paint them, if it’s bodywork grind them smooth and paint them.

I know context is a difficult thing for you to understand, but my response was to this post -

I cover my welds with short strand fiberglass. What do you suggest?

The type of weld isn’t specified. It’s not mentioned if this is a seam between two different body panels, a butt weld like on a patch panel repair, or even a structural weld.

No weld has to be covered by fiberglass or bondo for the sake of the weld.

For bodywork, it depends on what it is. A seam, like the factory roof/quarter seams, may need filler. What kind depends on how thick the seam is! A butt weld should be ground smooth and only require a skim of filler. And structural welds can be painted or treated for corrosion protection but should NEVER be covered, because they need to be inspected (think roll cage welds).

On factory seams I use lead, or the modern “body solder” equivalent that is allegedly less toxic. Like at the tail panel here

Fiber strand / Duraglass on all seams , Then finish over that with Bondo / Plastic, Ruff it in with #36 then #80 and coat it with a good fill-in-sand urethane. Block it #220 then reprime let it sit for 2 days and re block it with #400. and then edge the car with color, then #600. for paint.

That is the way I was doing it for years. If there is a newer product to eliminate that worK I would like to hear it. I am getting to old for all that block sanding

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Ah, so you use duraglass and bondo for seam treatment and as a skim coat like it’s supposed to be used.

Im pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I’m guessing you wouldn’t use fiberglass, metal screen from the hardware store, with bondo, pop rivets etc to make a lower quarter panel right? Like this?

Pretty sure this isn’t something I’d find on one of your restorations.

Why would you have an estimate on that type of repair and not one for a metal repair ?

I think we have no real data on fiberglass repairs that were done in a similar fashion as most were probably not treated and sealed. The environment the car will be in is the biggest factor so any estimates on how long either will last..depends.

Aside from that - this might be the most practical way for this repair on this car. What would be an estimated cost of a metal repair on this be , assuming the person wouldn't do it themselves ?

No data? Of course there’s no data! No one studies this scientifically.

But anyone that’s actually done bodywork and rust repair on classic cars for any amount of time has seen what happens to cars with bondo and fiberglass repairs like yours- they fail. And the result is harder to fix than the original damage.

I know you think your fiberglass, screen and bondo repairs are somehow “special” and different, but every hack that shortcuts real repairs does work exactly like yours. It all fails. Your work isn’t any different than any flipper or con man’s.

 

[Kemper]

He just likes trolling the guys that do metal and weld repairs

I never said anything negative about anyone's metal and weld repairs as far as quality of their work.

 

[72bluNblu]

I never said anything negative about anyone's metal and weld repairs as far as quality of their work.

Uh, yes, you have.

 

[junkyardhero]

I never said anything negative about anyone's metal and weld repairs as far as quality of their work.

this is such unmitigated horseshit that my eyeballs just rolled into the back of my skull.

why try and take the high road now? you've been going low the whole time.

AGAIN changing the narrative to fit whatever it is you think casts you in the best possible light. disgusting and shameful.

 

[Kemper]

So I’m not totally against what I see there. If all the rust is removed like cutting out on the metal that has rust on the backside then that is a way to do it. What is a total hack is to try to pass off you can sand rust off the exterior of the car, then fill it with fiberglass and expect it to last. The rust has to be gone from the backside too, period.

It seems we are in agreement . Thanks for talking about the important aspects as those will be helpful to someone that is going to do a repair like this.

 

[RustyRatRod]

this is such unmitigated horseshit that my eyeballs just rolled into the back of my skull.

More than with AJ? If so, that's a LONG way to roll.

 

[Kemper]

Never did look at this as a competition or game of "internet" guys. Just giving an honest look and demonstration of an alternative to replacing metal. A lot of people have and a lot of people will be doing fiberglass/bondo repairs all across the hobby for years to come. You might want to be a little more considerate to them as it may be the best route for them for a variety of reasons.

 

[gdrill]

There is likely nothing dangerous about that type of repair in certain parts of a car. But, if somebody is doing that, might they bondo a rusted frame rail? YES, they will. Seen it myself. Body work is work for a reason. A repair like that will need to be repaired again at some point if the car lives long enough. Maybe it is a 5 year plan.

Don't expect anybody to praise or promote patching a car together with license plates and road signs. That is for the rat rod crowd. Many did it in their youth because they just couldn't afford to fix a car properly. That did not make it right. Think about a floor held together by screws, rivets and random pieces of steel.......a big enough stick would pierce right into the cabin, let alone the fact that the floor is part of the structure in many vehicles.

Bye now

 

[72bluNblu]

Never did look at this as a competition or game of "internet" guys. Just giving an honest look and demonstration of an alternative to replacing metal. A lot of people have and a lot of people will be doing fiberglass/bondo repairs all across the hobby for years to come. You might want to be a little more considerate to them as it may be the best route for them for a variety of reasons.

Please. This has been a competition since your first post. Otherwise you could have just left all this in your build thread, and not started thread after thread after thread, or dragged it into other people’s unrelated threads. And getting a couple of people to agree with you doesn’t mean you have a legitimate repair, BTW. You can get thousands of people to agree the Earth is flat and every one of them is wrong, simple as that.

I don’t have to be considerate to anyone that’s sculpting lower quarters out of fiberglass, hardware store metal screen and gobs and gobs of bondo. There is one right way to rapair that damage- cut out the rust, weld in new panels or patch panels, use filler sparingly and paint everything. Everything else is a band aid at best and butchery at worst.

Money, or lack of it, does not make your repairs the right answer. You could have wire wheeled the rust, treated it with a rust neutralizer, and used POR 15 or another paint to prevent further damage. The rust would have been stopped temporarily and you could have made the proper repair later. But that would still show that there was damage, it wouldn’t be pretty to boost your ego or trick people into thinking you have something that isn’t substantially damaged.

So we get to what you did- hiding the damage with sculpted fiberglass, wire screen and bondo to create the body lines and features. All that does is hide the damage, and when fiberglass flexes the bondo won’t remain sealed, the whole mess will start absorbing water and then the rust will return even worse than before. And now totally hidden, so someone’s going to get screwed later with a much more extensive repair.

 

[Kemper]

Please. This has been a competition since your first post. Otherwise you could have just left all this in your build thread, and not started thread after thread after thread, or dragged it into other people’s unrelated threads. And getting a couple of people to agree with you doesn’t mean you have a legitimate repair, BTW. You can get thousands of people to agree the Earth is flat and every one of them is wrong, simple as that.

I don’t have to be considerate to anyone that’s sculpting lower quarters out of fiberglass, hardware store metal screen and gobs and gobs of bondo. There is one right way to rapair that damage- cut out the rust, weld in new panels or patch panels, use filler sparingly and paint everything. Everything else is a band aid at best and butchery at worst.

Money, or lack of it, does not make your repairs the right answer. You could have wire wheeled the rust, treated it with a rust neutralizer, and used POR 15 or another paint to prevent further damage. The rust would have been stopped temporarily and you could have made the proper repair later. But that would still show that there was damage, it wouldn’t be pretty to boost your ego or trick people into thinking you have something that isn’t substantially damaged.

So we get to what you did- hiding the damage with sculpted fiberglass, wire screen and bondo to create the body lines and features. All that does is hide the damage, and when fiberglass flexes the bondo won’t remain sealed, the whole mess will start absorbing water and then the rust will return even worse than before. And now totally hidden, so someone’s going to get screwed later with a much more extensive repair.

I see it bothers you if someone looks at this in a fair way . You have no idea how long a bondo job will last because I don't think you ever seen one that was treated and sealed . You simply don't know nor do I . I think my work will be fine basing it on fiberglass repairs I've seen and done in the past that didn't show much thought or treatment if any.

Get over you Bondo Deraingment Syndrome and if you don't have anything to add to help people out that are going to use bondo why are you on this thread ? I did make the proper repair for my car because it is a no-weld preservation .
You look silly telling someone what they should do to their car , when they should do it and what they should do in between.

It's not about lack of money on my end. If you are ever in need stop by and I'll help you out.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I find it difficult to believe this guy can do any work at all he's on the internet trolling so much. He's here as well as Facebook constantly arguing. Is he on any of the other "Bodys" sites too? He's gotta be at it 8-12 hours a day.

 

[mopar head]

It's not about lack of money on my end. If you are ever in need stop by and I'll help you out.

I could always use some money, but do I have to go all the way to misery? can`t you just mail me a check? lol

 

[72bluNblu]

I see it bothers you if someone looks at this in a fair way . You have no idea how long a bondo job will last because I don't think you ever seen one that was treated and sealed . You simply don't know nor do I . I think my work will be fine basing it on fiberglass repairs I've seen and done in the past that didn't show much thought or treatment if any.

See, that’s the problem. You’ve assumed I haven’t seen exactly what you’re describing.

But I have. I’ve been working on cars for over 30 years. I’ve done bodywork on cars that’s been there that long. And I’ve seen other cars done with shoddy repairs like yours. They DO NOT LAST.

And know because I’ve seen it. All my buddies had cars in high school. I’ve seen all kinds of crappy, half assed repairs, mostly by dumb teenagers. And I know what happened to those cars, and how fast it happened.

Nothing you’re doing is new or different. The outcomes are well known to anyone that’s been doing this kind of work for decades. I’m sure you don’t have any idea how long your repairs will last, but that doesn’t mean no one else does.

Get over you Bondo Deraingment Syndrome and if you don't have anything to add to help people out that are going to use bondo why are you on this thread ?

I’m here so people understand how to properly use bondo. What you’re doing isn’t it.

Someone has to say that wire screen and bondo is not a substitute for metal panels, because it isn’t. And it’s not a proper use of bondo either!

I did make the proper repair for my car because it is a no-weld preservation .

That’s not a thing. “No weld preservation” is not a real thing anyone does. And if it was, it still wouldn’t be appropriate for a rust damaged car that needs new panels.

It's not about lack of money on my end. If you are ever in need stop by and I'll help you out.

Really? So then do it right. If money is not the problem, don’t hack up a car with flipper tricks and BS. If you can’t weld, pay someone that can.

 

[harrisonm]

question: would anybody here regard a repair using galvanized screen and bondo as "done properly"?

Yes and No. Would I ever say a patch like that has been "Done Properly?" No! But keep in mind that not everybody has a welder. Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do. So if you are in the hobby, must do everything on a budget and are doing all the work yourself then yes, a patch similar to that can be a workable alternative. Done carefully, hack patch jobs can look good and last quite a while.
What you posted in #27 is a definite NO if the question is was it done properly. That being said, a patch like the one done in #27 could last for many years if done carefully. By carefully I mean scuff all areas with 80 grit for adhesion, make everything clean prior to applying filler, using Duraglass as the base coat is a good idea since it will resist cracking and finally I would apply the final filler in thinner layers. I assure you that I could do a repair like that and it would last for many years. Notice I didn't say Bondo. I never use it. I use Evercoat Rage Gold. I think it is the best. Would I do a repair like in #27? NO! I have been welding in patches for about 20 years, but not everybody has a welder. Some people have to make patches the hard way. Before I knew how to weld, I have made patches with sheet metal where I cut out all the rust, tapped the edges of the hole in a bit so I could pop rivet the patch in and have the rivet head below the level surface and then used filler. Some of those patches lasted at least 15 years.
What will NOT work is some of the patching you see on YouTube (like the rusty wheel well lip in #7) where they just hit the rust with a wire brush, tap the bad area in a bit and then pump in the filler.
LET ME STRESS that I am saying that welding is definitely the best method of patching, and I am not saying that I accept the picture in post #27 as being done 'properly', but " Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do."

 

[72bluNblu]

Yes and No. Would I ever say a patch like that has been "Done Properly?" No! But keep in mind that not everybody has a welder. Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do. So if you are in the hobby, must do everything on a budget and are doing all the work yourself then yes, a patch similar to that can be a workable alternative. Done carefully, hack patch jobs can look good and last quite a while.
What you posted in #27 is a definite NO if the question is was it done properly. That being said, a patch like the one done in #27 could last for many years if done carefully. By carefully I mean scuff all areas with 80 grit for adhesion, make everything clean prior to applying filler, using Duraglass as the base coat is a good idea since it will resist cracking and finally I would apply the final filler in thinner layers. I assure you that I could do a repair like that and it would last for many years. Notice I didn't say Bondo. I never use it. I use Evercoat Rage Gold. I think it is the best. Would I do a repair like in #27? NO! I have been welding in patches for about 20 years, but not everybody has a welder. Some people have to make patches the hard way. Before I knew how to weld, I have made patches with sheet metal where I cut out all the rust, tapped the edges of the hole in a bit so I could pop rivet the patch in and have the rivet head below the level surface and then used filler. Some of those patches lasted at least 15 years.
What will NOT work is some of the patching you see on YouTube (like the rusty wheel well lip in #7) where they just hit the rust with a wire brush, tap the bad area in a bit and then pump in the filler.
LET ME STRESS that I am saying that welding is definitely the best method of patching, and I am not saying that I accept the picture in post #27 as being done 'properly', but " Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do."

There’s no reason to do what’s there in #27. Look at the original pictures in his thread, the rust isn’t that terrible. If you don’t have a welder, you can hit the whole thing with a wire wheel, clean everything out off the trunk drop off, neutralize the rust and hit it all with POR15. The remaining metal will last longer than that hack job patch.

Not only that, but the hack job patch brings in the possibility of that car being sold to someone that doesn’t know how bad the damage is or what it will still require to make it right. And that’s what that hack job patch is about- fooling people about the quality of that car.

 

[junkyardhero]

Yes and No. Would I ever say a patch like that has been "Done Properly?" No! But keep in mind that not everybody has a welder. Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do. So if you are in the hobby, must do everything on a budget and are doing all the work yourself then yes, a patch similar to that can be a workable alternative. Done carefully, hack patch jobs can look good and last quite a while.
What you posted in #27 is a definite NO if the question is was it done properly. That being said, a patch like the one done in #27 could last for many years if done carefully. By carefully I mean scuff all areas with 80 grit for adhesion, make everything clean prior to applying filler, using Duraglass as the base coat is a good idea since it will resist cracking and finally I would apply the final filler in thinner layers. I assure you that I could do a repair like that and it would last for many years. Notice I didn't say Bondo. I never use it. I use Evercoat Rage Gold. I think it is the best. Would I do a repair like in #27? NO! I have been welding in patches for about 20 years, but not everybody has a welder. Some people have to make patches the hard way. Before I knew how to weld, I have made patches with sheet metal where I cut out all the rust, tapped the edges of the hole in a bit so I could pop rivet the patch in and have the rivet head below the level surface and then used filler. Some of those patches lasted at least 15 years.
What will NOT work is some of the patching you see on YouTube (like the rusty wheel well lip in #7) where they just hit the rust with a wire brush, tap the bad area in a bit and then pump in the filler.
LET ME STRESS that I am saying that welding is definitely the best method of patching, and I am not saying that I accept the picture in post #27 as being done 'properly', but " Sometimes we gotta do what we gotta do."

to an extent, i agree that sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

but when you're talking about preserving a car? yeah, bondo billy hack job doesn't come into the equation.

you gotta do what you gotta do to get to work the next day. you gotta do what you gotta do to keep rain water from pouring down the windshield and shorting out your dash on your daily.

you absolutely do not "gotta do what you gotta do" when you not only have the money but you have that gat-damn pre formed patch panels sitting in the trunk of the project car.

 

[One Bullet Barney]

.

 

[One Bullet Barney]

Time to close this thread?

 

[FISHYPETE]

Yes-AGAIN

 

[ir3333]

Bondo is never used as a repair...it is for correcting small imperfections prior to paint. Epoxies and short or long strand fiberglass may be used for larger voids or where water proofing is required. Nothing will last over rusted metal...not even a welded patch. But a repair over a rusted area can last for sometime if it is kept totally dry.