What should i change to get into high 11's?

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69dodgedart360

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So I would like to build a mid to high 11 second car out of my current 12.9 car. I am of course trying to do this right the first time and still want to be able to hit the freeway and cruise since this is a more of a cruiser than a racer. The reason I have this specific goal is to whoop my brothers 383 nova that he got on the road. His car theoretically runs low to mid 11's and the motor dyno'd 520hp 505 tq. I am wondering if I should go 408, buy a converter from dynamic and that would do it. Any and all similar builds and advice are appreciated. No nitrous! I currently have this set up.
69 dart all steel full interior
360 10:1 compression
X heads with port work 2.05 1.62 valves
Comp flat tappet Hyd. Xe284 .507/5.11 lift 1.5 ratio
Edelbrock air gap
750cfm demon carb
Tti exhaust/ 2.5 pipe
Msd everything
3.55 locker
2500rpm b&m torque converter on. 26 inch tire w/ ss springs
Do not know hp or tq figures. 60ft times were 2.1's
 
408 will get it done...x heads ported...any flow bench info?...

upgrade converter to 3500 rpm from dynamics...
 
I am also considering hooking the car up to a chassis dyno to see what I get to have a better idea on what I'm working with but also am thinking of just pulling the heads off and sending them out to see what flow numbers I get.
 
No flow numbers. These heads were done about 7 years ago and have about 40,000 miles on them. But we're completely gone through.
 
"His car theoretically runs low to mid 11's and the motor dyno'd 520hp 505 tq."

Since that is your goal....what kind of gearing and converter does that nova have?...it take a lot more then a motor making *** hp on dyno to run 11s...

you can beat him with a better package and less horsepower...suspension/converter/gearing and tires.
 
That engine, if the heads are decent, should run low 12's and maybe high 11's as is in a decent chassis. What kind of MPH does it run?

The chasiss is the weak point on your car right now.

More converter too... something that flashes in the 4K range would make huge difference.
 
crackedback said:
That engine, if the heads are decent, should run low 12's and maybe high 11's as is in a decent chassis. What kind of MPH does it run?

The chasiss is the weak point on your car right now.

More converter too... something that flashes in the 4K range would make huge difference.
Click to expand...

X2

1---Trying to "keep up with Jones" is never going to work

along-came-cooper.jpg


2--Stick some 3.90's or 4.11's in there, and go to it
 
He has a torque converter that gives him 32-3500rpm flash stall and he has 3.73's on a 26 inch tire. I do have an extra 3.91 pumpkin but it has to be gone through (bearings are a little noisy and its an open diff). My mph was 105. ( this was also my first time ever at a track and I was on street tires not DR's).
I know keeping up with the jones's is not going to work but he is my older brother and I simply can't let him beat me or at least not make it easy for him to beat me haha. Outside of drag shocks and subframe connectors is there anything else I could do to the suspension for a SS spring car?
 
I know you stated no nitrous but...... It would get it done.
 
get a fresh valve job. put the 3.91's in. a new timing chain and degree the cam in with at least 4-6 degrees advanced centerline. this shouldn't cost too much. adjustable rocker gear and pushrods. next a new convertor like said before. then if you're still having trouble with him change the cam to a solid with at least .600" lift and still keep it advanced the same.
 
The cheapest and simplest way is a 250 HP plate shot.
 
less weight, more hp. your wallet will be lighter haha.

smaller engines need more gear for launch. so yeah what bob said.

since it's a street cruiser you are limited by your fuel. stroking the 360 up or moving to a big block will definitely be the easiest ways... neither are cheap. even keeping your 360 in order to make it run high rpms that you will need with your high stall and 4:10's or whatever gears will cost a lot of money. it could be done that way as well. high flow heads, aluminum preferred. external oil system. solid cam / adjustable rockers / correct lenght pushrods.

so small block / stroker / big block all 3 could do it but it's all what you want to spend.

bob's solution is the cheapest. you could just go with a .600 cam like he says, and get everything fitted while you got the heads off. the right springs for the cam etc.

*** the cheapest way to go would be if you find someone selling a set of sb aluminum heads all ready done up with adjustable rockers and big springs already ;)

check with MRL Performance maybe he has a set around. or pm IQ52

just be careful i would only get a set of heads from someone you know wont do you wrong... you dont want a set that has been abused. cracks, too much material taken off, etc.
 
crackedback said:
That engine, if the heads are decent, should run low 12's and maybe high 11's as is in a decent chassis. What kind of MPH does it run?

The chasiss is the weak point on your car right now.

More converter too... something that flashes in the 4K range would make huge difference.
Click to expand...


This ^^^^^ is your best bet. Sorry, I missed the "no nitrous" disclaimer.
 
Like others have said, you're going to need the whole package to get your car to ET well (power + suspension that works + sticky tires)....but here is my motor build if you're curious:

360 block, 410 ci, 10.8:1 compression (93 octane pump gas)
Eagle 4.00 steel crank, Scat I-beams, Diamond pistons, total seal rings (file fit),
ARP main/head studs, Edelbrock heads stage II ported by Ryan J @ Shadydell,
Small solid roller 248/254 duration w/ .576/.582 lift, Victor, 750 dp,
4.10 gears, spool, 35 spline axles, full Caltracs setup,
727, manual valve body, 8” converter, 28x11.5 Hoosier QTP
3200 lbs, street trim and with 3 inch Flowmasters.

This combo makes close to the same power that your brothers car does (never dynoed, but going from trap speed it is close), but it gets it all to the ground....it runs low 6.80's @ 99+ mph in the 1/8 (which is ~10.7 in the 1/4).
 
Your 2.1 60 foot time is not so great which is chassis. Front section of springs clamped? Pinion snubber? Subframe connectors?

Small blocks like gears, preferably anything 4.10:1-up.

I'll agree with others who have said to upgrade your converter, most definitely. Is it a 904 or 727? 904 is less rotating mass. A low gear set might help too.

Do you know what your car weighs? You can figure out approximately how much hp you have at the wheels (based on ET/mph) if you know your weight. Once you can ascertain that, then you can start to get an idea of how to build your combo towards your goal. You'll probably need around 400-425hp at the crank (figure 15-20% parasitic driveline loss so around 340-350 at the wheels) and weigh around 3100 lbs.

1/4 mile hp calculator.
 
flyfish said:
Like others have said, you're going to need the whole package to get your car to ET well (power + suspension that works + sticky tires)....but here is my motor build if you're curious:

360 block, 410 ci, 10.8:1 compression (93 octane pump gas)
Eagle 4.00 steel crank, Scat I-beams, Diamond pistons, total seal rings (file fit),
ARP main/head studs, Edelbrock heads stage II ported by Ryan J @ Shadydell,
Small solid roller 248/254 duration w/ .576/.582 lift, Victor, 750 dp,
4.10 gears, spool, 35 spline axles, full Caltracs setup,
727, manual valve body, 8” converter, 28x11.5 Hoosier QTP
3200 lbs, street trim and with 3 inch Flowmasters.

This combo makes close to the same power that your brothers car does (never dynoed, but going from trap speed it is close), but it gets it all to the ground....it runs low 6.80's @ 99+ mph in the 1/8 (which is ~10.7 in the 1/4).
Click to expand...

I'd listen to what this guy is saying. His short times are in the sub 1.5's, according to his sig. His car is pretty darn dialed as far as getting power to the ground! That is really the key.

You can spend all kinds of money on go fast parts, but if you're not optimizing the power through suspension set up and tires, you're clapping with one hand. Sorry if I missed it, but how much does youre car weigh with you in it? What is your average trap speed? A 2.1 short time isn't great. You could probably gain .500 seconds or more, just getting your 60' down to the sub 2.0 area.
 
My wifes 360 Dart is full dress,close to same motor as yours, has 4500 Hughes converter 4:30 gears, and 28"x 9 1/2" hoosier slicks.Stock springs with snuber.
It runs 12:10 @ sea level, and 12:40's here @ 4,000'
It's going to take gears and a converter to get where you want to go. 4:30's will be barely streetable though with a short tire.
 

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The four times I raced at the track my mph was in 104-106. 12.9 at 106 being my best time. I have nothing done to the rear suspension at all other then the SS springs. I have not weighed the car but I only weigh 140 so I am taking a guess at 3300lbs. I feel like I should start by adding in some shocks in the rear, possibly some rancho's (after reading a couple posts on them), then adding in some subframe connectors. Should I use a pinion snubber with SS springs? After that I think I am going to follow bobs advice and advance the cam (since it won't cost me anything) and add a better torque converter. I am running a 727 with a transgo TF2 shift kit, a 4.2 lever, and I believe red alto/kolene internals. I called dynamic converters and was told 595 for a 9 1/2 converter and have also looked at cope racing trans for a 9 1/2 converter for about 500.
 
Should I spend the money to get my heads flow benched to have a better understanding of how my heads are or would running it on a chassis dyno be a better option?
 
Put connectors on it FIRST!

Good shocks (rancho/Calvert) will help, BUT, most of the time you are losing in 60' is likely in the front suspension. It's missing maybe 4 tenths in 60's time.

Forget the snubber, waste of money.

I'd buy a dynamic, ultimate, A1, ATI or TA converter.
 
you need to take a ton of time off that 60'

my car would go 1.69 60' with beat *** 100,000 mile slant six rear springs and air shocks and stock small block torsion bars and beat shocks.. had a dynamic 9.5" converter and 3.91 gear.
 
With your Horse Power, frame connectors aren't going to do anything. Look again at my wifes 72 Dart (above picture), no frame connectors, stock worn out rear springs SNUBBER and 3 way Comp. eng.adjustable shocks only (stock shocks in the front) Stock V8 torsion bars etc.No roll bar,full wieght of 3250 lbs.....it's all in the converter, & gears, mostly gears bud.Harder leave quicker ET. (if you got traction).
And by the way SNUBBER yes, yes, and yes, look at my mild BB Valiant with only SS springs, 3 way adj shocks, and adjustable SNUBBER.SB V8 torsion bars, stock front shocks.3300 lbs with my big butt in it.
 

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Ditch the Edelbrock for a 650-750 holly DP,upgrade the converter PTC 9.5" street converter 4000ish stall would work great for street strip use,3.91 or better gearing should get you high 11's.
 
goldmember said:
Ditch the Edelbrock for a 650-750 holly DP,upgrade the converter PTC 9.5" street converter 4000ish stall would work great for street strip use,3.91 or better gearing should get you high 11's.
Click to expand...
This^^^^. Your sixties are LAAAZZZZY! A DP Holley and some verter are ay numero uno....
 
Steeper gears and a better converter could get you into the low 12's, but that still leaves you a second a way from your goal...you will have to add a LOT of power to get there (about 100 hp)....but it really is a good COMBINATION of parts that work well together that is key.

I would start with the 90/10 drag shocks in the front and frame connectors.

I would not get the gears or the converter until you determine what you are doing for the additional power. Compression, cam, intake, carb, converter, gears, etc, should all match to make the most of what you've got. As you said in your first post, you want to do this right the first time...so take some time and plan it rather than buying random parts. JMO.
 
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