5.7 L Hemi, ZF 8HP70 Swap

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Mac67Cuda

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I'm just beginning the restoration of '67 Barracuda fast back.
My goal is a daily driver, quick 0-60 mph times, and economical gas mileage.

I'm intrigued with the more recent 5.7 L Hemi, ZF 8HP70 8-speed automatic transmission combination.
It's seems to be the going trend for Dodge, RAM, Jeep, and Chrysler models.

I have not found any swap information.
It's either too new or difficult.

What's the forum's opinion?
 
The eight speed would be a great combo with any G3. Just a little early for there to be many showing up in the bone yards or "used" on Craigs list, ebay, etc. Won't be long though. There will probably be quite a learning curve to make the tranny work though, ie. what computer arrangement, etc. Should be nice though...
 
Yeah, computers tend to be the issue nowadays. So many systems are starting to get tied together into one computer that's it's hard to transplant a powertrain with independent control. Just about every car now has wheel speed sensors for ABS/Traction control, body control modules that run windows/doors/maybe even gauges, etc. If you want to pull a modern powertrain you almost need to pull ever wire out of the donor car as well, at least until someone comes up with aftermarket solutions.
 
8 speed would be great a 5 or 6 speed auto would get you there. The 6 speed manual in my Challenger is a double o/d and tach's about 2500 r's @100 mph. Steady 25 mpg. @ 75. Overdrive with the correctly matched rear gear and rear tire size makes quick off the line and good mileage both a reality. tmm
 
Modern Muscle has a computer to control the new motor, but I don't know if they can control that tranny? I'm sure they'll come in and answer if they can.

The main question is what inputs does the tranny need. If the computer needs axle sensor input to control the tranny, your swap just became a lot more difficult.
 
Hot wire can control the NAG1 or the WA580 transmission but it cannot control the eight speed yet. Give them a call and see what's up. The eight speed is brand new so I think you might have to wait.

The good news is Hot Wire does support the naturally aspirated 392. Wonder when they will support the Supercharged 6.2L Hemi. Not that I can afford one. ;)

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Map63Vette said:
Yeah, computers tend to be the issue nowadays. So many systems are starting to get tied together into one computer that's it's hard to transplant a powertrain with independent control. Just about every car now has wheel speed sensors for ABS/Traction control, body control modules that run windows/doors/maybe even gauges, etc. If you want to pull a modern powertrain you almost need to pull ever wire out of the donor car as well, at least until someone comes up with aftermarket solutions.
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Yep, I put a transmission in a gm late model and it took more time to get the updates in the ecm and tcm modules than it took to swap the trans, then you have to do a re-learn with a scan tool after the modules are flashed with the latest software.
Fords are worse yet, if you don't re-program after a transmission swap, It will burn it up in a few miles.
Mopars are the worst, I have heard that even dealership level is having problems with re-flashing .

I would go with a 4l80e if I was doing an auto swap, handles mega power and aftermarket support for the electronics available.
 
Look into the ratios. Anyone I've talked to with the 8-speed says those first 3 gears are over pretty quick. In a car that weighs 2000# less, I'd think it'd be really unnecessary, not to mention likely require major surgery of the tunnel...
 
No reason to do with the 8 speed you have have to remember that the new 8 speed trans are more for economy then performance. Not to mention the aftermarket is just now getting the NAG1 to work in a swap. and that Trans has been out for 8+ years. As of right now the 8 speed can not even be tuned in the new cars yet so until that can happen I do not even think it is worth investing any time or money to see if it can be done.
 
Modern Muscle said:
No reason to do with the 8 speed you have have to remember that the new 8 speed trans are more for economy then performance. Not to mention the aftermarket is just now getting the NAG1 to work in a swap. and that Trans has been out for 8+ years. As of right now the 8 speed can not even be tuned in the new cars yet so until that can happen I do not even think it is worth investing any time or money to see if it can be done.
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I agree with this although the 8-speeds seem to be almost perfectly tuned from the factory not sure how you could improve them much. IMO a tuned NAG1 for crisper shifts would work great for what you want. Or any number of modern 5/6-speed manuals.
 
Modern Muscle said:
No reason to do with the 8 speed you have have to remember that the new 8 speed trans are more for economy then performance. Not to mention the aftermarket is just now getting the NAG1 to work in a swap. and that Trans has been out for 8+ years. As of right now the 8 speed can not even be tuned in the new cars yet so until that can happen I do not even think it is worth investing any time or money to see if it can be done.
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I think the new boxes are also more efficient and have less losses through the gears, but I'd agree that it's likely not worth the effort to make one work for the limited gain you might see. A lot of times people forget that efficiency = power in the sense that you can use the power that was previously wasted by inefficient components. One reason I liked the modern engine swap idea. Similar displacement but better efficiency means more power per cubic inch.
 
Was wondering if anyone has done a swap to an LS3 and tans combo kit into a Cuda.I have a 68 Cuda and looking to make a touring car but have modern running gear. The LS3 looks like the simple solution having the ECU and harness plus trans comes with in some kits. Like guys have said some combo's are just to new and nothing on the swaps yet. I see a lot of shows and guys using the LS3 so I thought this would be a great start. Of course I have no clue yet if my QA1 K-frame and the actual trans tunnel of the car will all work without severe modification's. Yes I know its a Chev but I am a fan of something that I can at least get help in my area if I need for ECU flashing and tuning for future updates. So if anyone knew of what If anyone knows what I maybe challenged with in this swap I would appreciate the reply. I was thinking of using the Unisteer electric box on the column verses trying to fab. something for rack and pinion. Not sure if this will work but cannot grasp any other idea at the moment.
 
Yeah, just what all the other guys do, put an ls3 in it. Why even have a Mopar if you're gonna do that? Better yet just buy an old Pinto, weld in the LS3 and then just bolt your Barracuda emblems on that. Be pretty much the same as a Barracuda with an LS3 and an AlterKtion.......
 
You must be young, new to the Mopar world and no loyalty to MaMopar. You could put a cummins diesel in it and get more respect since they come in Rams. Don't put a Chev in a Mopar. Just not cool...



articcolds said:
Was wondering if anyone has done a swap to an LS3 and tans combo kit into a Cuda.I have a 68 Cuda and looking to make a touring car but have modern running gear. The LS3 looks like the simple solution having the ECU and harness plus trans comes with in some kits. Like guys have said some combo's are just to new and nothing on the swaps yet. I see a lot of shows and guys using the LS3 so I thought this would be a great start. Of course I have no clue yet if my QA1 K-frame and the actual trans tunnel of the car will all work without severe modification's. Yes I know its a Chev but I am a fan of something that I can at least get help in my area if I need for ECU flashing and tuning for future updates. So if anyone knew of what If anyone knows what I maybe challenged with in this swap I would appreciate the reply. I was thinking of using the Unisteer electric box on the column verses trying to fab. something for rack and pinion. Not sure if this will work but cannot grasp any other idea at the moment.
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The easiest and most cost effective way is to put a tr6060 behind the 5.7 and call it a day. Otherwise, you can put a 4l80 behind it. A stock 4l80 will hold more than 90% of the folks on the board will put through it. They are cheap, plentiful, and everyone makes a controller for it.
 
It always the same on forums. You try to get some input and a perfectly good question. Some have no idea what your building or some requirements to road racing. Run the mouth and so the IQ factor. Real nice! I appreciate the input to the question. Loyalty that funny how many labels have you looked at lately on what is made where and who makes it haha funny
There is a crate assembly that has the LS3 Combo with transmission. This kit also has the harness and ECU control for trans. I have looked ant the Mopar 5.7 but the cost of $13,000 verse $7000 can prove to be the answer.
 
articcolds said:
It always the same on forums. You try to get some input and a perfectly good question. Some have no idea what your building or some requirements to road racing. Run the mouth and so the IQ factor. Real nice! I appreciate the input to the question. Loyalty that funny how many labels have you looked at lately on what is made where and who makes it haha funny There is a crate assembly that has the LS3 Combo with transmission. This kit also has the harness and ECU control for trans. I have looked ant the Mopar 5.7 but the cost of $13,000 verse $7000 can prove to be the answer.
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Look in the projects forum. A guy was doing it but stopped posting about a year ago due to the negativity. Last I heard, the car was for sale a couple weeks ago. IMO, why buy a mopar if you're just going to throw a Chevy engine in it? I get you want to road race and have certain demands, but a Hemi can meet all those same demands. Uhcoog1 has a 6.1L in his Duster and has passed multiple modern sport/supercars on a road course. I will admit that the LS is a good engine and they're plentiful, but they're so overdone. Everyone tells me to do it for my Dart whenever I talk about replacing my 273 and they bore me to death. IMO, don't take what may be the "easier" route just because it seems cheaper on paper. You may end up needing to do quite a bit of extra fab work to make that fit, and a Hemi swap already has a lot of fab work. Remember, no one makes LS to Mopar A-body swaps. As far as which is the better engine, just from doing some quick reading on a bunch of other forums, the only major advantage an LS has over a GIII Hemi is cost. Everything else they're either quite even or the Hemi is triumphant. At the end of the day, it's your car. Do as you please. Why should anything I say matter in your decision?
 
articcolds said:
Was wondering if anyone has done a swap to an LS3 and tans combo kit into a Cuda.I have a 68 Cuda and looking to make a touring car but have modern running gear. The LS3 looks like the simple solution having the ECU and harness plus trans comes with in some kits. Like guys have said some combo's are just to new and nothing on the swaps yet. I see a lot of shows and guys using the LS3 so I thought this would be a great start. Of course I have no clue yet if my QA1 K-frame and the actual trans tunnel of the car will all work without severe modification's. Yes I know its a Chev but I am a fan of something that I can at least get help in my area if I need for ECU flashing and tuning for future updates. So if anyone knew of what If anyone knows what I maybe challenged with in this swap I would appreciate the reply. I was thinking of using the Unisteer electric box on the column verses trying to fab. something for rack and pinion. Not sure if this will work but cannot grasp any other idea at the moment.
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I do like your idea for an electric power steering column though. I've thoght about that myself a few times, but haven't really looked too far into it. Still pretty costly as I understand it, so a Borgeson box may still be the cheaper route if someone has to have power steering without a rack and pinion K frame. Ratio might get interesting though. Power assist is all well and good, but typically you only run power because you want a quicker ratio as well. I know they have at least one quicker ratio manual box and there's a quicker ratio pitman too I believe, but I don't think that pitman clears a modern engine oil pan very well.
 
I just bought a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L and the 8 speed auto. By far the best transmission I have driven. Long haul or quick shifts the Jeep is a pig and still it hauls a**. There are basically two modes for the trans sport or econ. The trans can be shifted with paddles too, but the sport option is better than me. This is the same trans in the SRT Jeep and the Hellcat Challenger or Charger. Obviously there has been some mods for the torque increase on the Hellcat version. My GC will cruise at 22-25MPG all day when I am on a long haul.

A 2014 HEMI with 360 HP and all that torque in a light a body will scoot. I would love to someone here tackle the project. Hmmm?

Maybe I should pull the motor out of my Jeep...

Honey. can I get the keys to the Jeep?
 
articcolds said:
It always the same on forums. You try to get some input and a perfectly good question. Some have no idea what your building or some requirements to road racing. Run the mouth and so the IQ factor. Real nice! I appreciate the input to the question. Loyalty that funny how many labels have you looked at lately on what is made where and who makes it haha funny
There is a crate assembly that has the LS3 Combo with transmission. This kit also has the harness and ECU control for trans. I have looked ant the Mopar 5.7 but the cost of $13,000 verse $7000 can prove to be the answer.
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Name-calling isn't going to gain you any more friends, and if the cost is your concern, I'm not sure why you bought a Mopar to begin with, especially for a road race car, as there is WAY more available for suspension/handling for GM's at a fraction of the cost. And if it's going to cost $13k to do the Hemi, I'm guessing you haven't spent alot of time reqding here. If my Hemi (turnkey, conversion mounts, pan, headers, etc) has lightened my wallet more than $7k CDN I did something seriously wrong...
 
I think this kid is just new to the Mopar world and doesn't know yet that Mopar guys, for the most part stay loyal to the breed. A Chevy LS in a 68 Cuda is do-able and certainly cheaper, but it's a total waste of a Cuda. A dirty shame actually. I think the guy also just likes to come around the Mopar crowd and "stir it up" a little. Whatever...
 
72BBSwinger said:
Yeah, just what all the other guys do, put an ls3 in it. Why even have a Mopar if you're gonna do that? Better yet just buy an old Pinto, weld in the LS3 and then just bolt your Barracuda emblems on that. Be pretty much the same as a Barracuda with an LS3 and an AlterKtion.......
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Because some people like the looks of the mopar and want a proven superior engine. The price he'll pay for that new hemi will be about the same as the LS3, and that LS3 powered mopar will destroy the hemi(yeah yeah, no one cares about built engines where budget is no concern)

Articcolds: An LS is doable with coilover suspension. Kind of a headache with the torsion bars.
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
I think this kid is just new to the Mopar world and doesn't know yet that Mopar guys, for the most part stay loyal to the breed. A Chevy LS in a 68 Cuda is do-able and certainly cheaper, but it's a total waste of a Cuda. A dirty shame actually. I think the guy also just likes to come around the Mopar crowd and "stir it up" a little. Whatever...
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Would you rather the car rot in a junk yard??

Its something i'll never understand about you mopar only people.
 
articcolds said:
Was wondering if anyone has done a swap to an LS3 and tans combo kit into a Cuda.I have a 68 Cuda and looking to make a touring car but have modern running gear. The LS3 looks like the simple solution having the ECU and harness plus trans comes with in some kits. Like guys have said some combo's are just to new and nothing on the swaps yet. I see a lot of shows and guys using the LS3 so I thought this would be a great start. Of course I have no clue yet if my QA1 K-frame and the actual trans tunnel of the car will all work without severe modification's. Yes I know its a Chev but I am a fan of something that I can at least get help in my area if I need for ECU flashing and tuning for future updates. So if anyone knew of what If anyone knows what I maybe challenged with in this swap I would appreciate the reply. I was thinking of using the Unisteer electric box on the column verses trying to fab. something for rack and pinion. Not sure if this will work but cannot grasp any other idea at the moment.
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Here you go bud:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=202836
and then all the bickering was moved to here:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=272207

If you want to put an LSx motor in your mopar, I respect your decision. If you want to do it to 'save money', know going in that probably won't be the case. If you have good fabrication skills, then you'll do fine. Otherwise you'll have to spend good money paying someone else to (or paying for a coil over k member, etc).

If I recall, the price difference between a 3G hemi swap and a LSx swap in a mopar chassis was marginal at best.

For a decent price comparison, a running 6.1 can be had for $4k. Add in another $2k for the computer, and that's pretty darn close to your $7k including a tranny for the LS3.

Magnumdust - I appreciate you defending the guy, but you don't have to throw insults at the 3G hemi while doing so. We can get started back in the bickering thread if that's the way you want to go.

At any rate, let's try to keep this thread on topic.
 
Uhcoog1 said:
Here you go bud:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=202836
and then all the bickering was moved to here:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=272207

If you want to put an LSx motor in your mopar, I respect your decision. If you want to do it to 'save money', know going in that probably won't be the case. If you have good fabrication skills, then you'll do fine. Otherwise you'll have to spend good money paying someone else to (or paying for a coil over k member, etc).

If I recall, the price difference between a 3G hemi swap and a LSx swap in a mopar chassis was marginal at best.

For a decent price comparison, a running 6.1 can be had for $4k. Add in another $2k for the computer, and that's pretty darn close to your $7k including a tranny for the LS3.

Magnumdust - I appreciate you defending the guy, but you don't have to throw insults at the 3G hemi while doing so. We can get started back in the bickering thread if that's the way you want to go.

At any rate, let's try to keep this thread on topic.
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Its not an insult at all. Its a simple matter of fact. From the factory, a new hemi will yeild some pretty underwhelming results for what you're gonna pay. You and other certainly have shown that you can make good power when you dump buckets of money into it. But those results are about the same as what can be done with any number of LS based engines that doesn't need bottom end work.

I also think you're overestimating the cost of the LS. The builds i've seen on here, the hemi is no pick nick with the factory K either. At least if you want power steering. Leading a lot of people to go for the alterkation(or competitors) anyways.
 
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