warrendodge
Well-Known Member
i went with Denny because he was on the forum i am more than happy with his product and service
i went with Denny because he was on the forum i am more than happy with his product and service
I'm comparing the cost of doing a complete front end rebuild using all new parts as well as installing say all the Hotchkis or firm feel parts, good shocks, big torsion bars and one of those borgeson steering boxes, the price would add up similar to the after market k member.
hmm, now you have me curious. time for math.
Firm feel, rebuilt kits range from 1600 to 3400 depending on what you want/get
Hotchkis, starts at 2400 not including T-bars. or brakes
yeah, you be right. by the time you'd upgrade similarly, youre gonna be about the same
Either way, you're gonna spend a couple grand. I guess it depends ultimately on what you want out of that money.
Although I've followed this thread because I really do like reading about the different suspension builders and set ups, I've stayed out of it so far because I know I'm probably considered one of those "torsion bar purists" mentioned earlier. But, since the question was asked about the cost of setting up a "comparable" torsion bar suspension, here's my .02 on the pricing only. Most of these prices should be pretty accurate, some of them are a few months old-
1.12" Firm Feel torsion bars: $355
Tubular UCA’s (PST, FFI, etc): $350
Adjustable strut rods (PST SR 14385): $280
Solid tie rod sleeves (PST SAS 440S): $50
LCA boxing plate (PST LCAPLTMOP621): $15
Greasable LCA pins (FFI w bushings): $135
Hellwig tubular front sway bar #55905: $180
Bilstein RCD shocks (front only): $220
Flaming River 16:1 steering box: $610
Tie rod ends (Moog): $60
Pitman and idler (Moog): $115
lower ball joints (Moog): $90
Total (without brakes) $2,460
So that should be a fairly accurate estimate for everything to be "new", assuming you already had '73+ spindles, LCA's, and '73 disk brakes to work with.
If you didn't-you could add Dr. Diff's 10.95" brake kit, which includes the '73 up style spindles and 10.95" disk set up (you'd still need a set of stock LCA's, but who doesn't have those?)
Dr. Diff's 10.95" rotor kit: $445
So, total with stock brakes and '73+ spindles is $2,905
So, with stock 10.95" disk brakes that's still $395 cheaper than the GTS set up and $845 less than the HDK. And that's a pretty well set up torsion bar suspended car.
Although I've followed this thread because I really do like reading about the different suspension builders and set ups, I've stayed out of it so far because I know I'm probably considered one of those "torsion bar purists" mentioned earlier. But, since the question was asked about the cost of setting up a "comparable" torsion bar suspension, here's my .02 on the pricing only. Most of these prices should be pretty accurate, some of them are a few months old-
1.12" Firm Feel torsion bars: $355
Tubular UCAs (PST, FFI, etc): $350
Adjustable strut rods (PST SR 14385): $280
Solid tie rod sleeves (PST SAS 440S): $50
LCA boxing plate (PST LCAPLTMOP621): $15
Greasable LCA pins (FFI w bushings): $135
Hellwig tubular front sway bar #55905: $180
Bilstein RCD shocks (front only): $220
Flaming River 16:1 steering box: $610
Tie rod ends (Moog): $60
Pitman and idler (Moog): $115
lower ball joints (Moog): $90
Total (without brakes) $2,460
So that should be a fairly accurate estimate for everything to be "new", assuming you already had '73+ spindles, LCA's, and '73 disk brakes to work with.
If you didn't-you could add Dr. Diff's 10.95" brake kit, which includes the '73 up style spindles and 10.95" disk set up (you'd still need a set of stock LCA's, but who doesn't have those?)
Dr. Diff's 10.95" rotor kit: $445
So, total with stock brakes and '73+ spindles is $2,905
So, with stock 10.95" disk brakes that's still $395 cheaper than the GTS set up and $845 less than the HDK. And that's a pretty well set up torsion bar suspended car.
Awesome break down. Either way you go is gonna cost some coin.
Just wait your going to get the die hard pipe in and tell you there all a waste of money and a stock setup can be just as good, which is not what you asked but it happens over and over every time this question is asked, then comes the name calling and were all off the original subject. Good luck.
. This is why I quit posting my build on FABO....it's really going down hill fast.
I still feel like the stock style steering Box with pitman arm, drag link, idler arm, inner and outer tie rod ends are going to feel less precise then a steering rack with only end link. There is also the longevity aspect. With more moving joints the stock system is going to loosen up and have more "slop" then the rack will. I had my car set up with the best of the best stock upgraded stock style suspension and it was a big improvement over the old worn out stuff but still not even close to how tight,precise and confidence inspiring as my new HDk setup. I know everyone has there own opinions but I literally did both systems to the extreme and I have found myself wondering why I didn't make the switch so much sooner.
Then there are the other benefits:
Outstanding header clearance
Easy to find replacement parts. The mustang II front suspension is the single most used system in the aftermarket.
Oil pan choices are endless
The added room makes a big block dart easy to work with and maintain
I agree, I just wasn't gonna turn the thread into stock vs aftermarket debate.....
See stock stuff had to get brought up yet again.......The OP didn't ask that, yet someone always feel the need to take any opportunity to throw there off topic opinion in there. This is why I quit posting my build on FABO....it's really going down hill fast.
If you add the Borgeson box and a slightly better front shock ( fox, QA1, Viking ) I feel that you can't make the argument that the stock front end is any cheaper when built to a high level. I have a car with a built stock style front end and and one with an RMS and I when I install the Borgeson box in it it will have as much money in the front end as the RMS car.
For the rear suspension I would say you could save $1000-1200 keeping the leaf springs over say doing a street lynx system, but you have really no adjustably with the leaf set up compared to the coil over setup.
On another note 72Blu, I always enjoy your posts and the input that you provide to this site, thank you for that!
The stock stuff was brought up already. I posted to show a price break down, because really the comparison between the torsion bar suspension and the coilover suspensions WILL ALWAYS be there. It's a natural comparison. It's not an attack on coilover suspensions, and although the OP didn't bring it up, it was brought up already. I'm just trying to keep things accurate.
There's no need to turn this thread into a stock vs aftermarket thread, although that's a bit of a misnomer because there's nothing stock about my torsion bar suspension, or the suspension I posted really. There are plenty of stock vs aftermarket threads already, so we don't have the debate "which one is better" here at all.
As far as the comparison goes at all- ALL suspension systems are a trade off. It is simply the nature of suspension design. Regardless of the suspension system, each one has advantages and disadvantages. If going coilover has more advantages for how you're using the car, then do it. If it doesn't, then don't. It's as simple as that.
No one system is going to be universally "better". We all build our cars differently, use our cars differently, and we all have different driving habits. That means the suspension set up that's best for me, or you, wouldn't necessarily be the best system for someone else.
That's no reason to stop posting on your thread. I get plenty of flack on mine too, as I mentioned already, there's pretty much nothing stock about it. And I love your build, I just don't have that kind of coin. Seriously, it's one of my favorite builds on the site. :thumbup:
This comes down to options though. You can get the coilover systems with better shocks too, and they'll cost more. If you add a power rack instead of a manual rack, they cost more. If you buy the RMS set up, it costs more. My point was to show a fairly basic, in the ballpark upgraded torsion bar suspension, and not overwhelm the thread with cost comparisons for every possible combination.
I'll update my build thread with a breakdown of my front suspension later. I can tell you that I have better components than the breakdown above, and I'm pretty sure I still have less than $3k into it because of the parts I've bought 2nd hand or slightly used.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money....his geometry looks superb, good camber gain, amazing bump steer, and great suspension travel, also found out his b/e body kits have 7 inches of travel, obviously more room toe get a longer coil over in, and his a bodies just shy of 6.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money.
where is this listed??? Is there a website? I haven't seen one picture of one of these in use or any published specs. I'd be calling b.s. until I heard some ride and drive reports online from independent users. jmho before I spent any money.
And secondly, I haven't seen a single spec from denny other than track width, I've searched his site, this forum, and since you've been following so close, how many times did I ask him about bumpsteer?
http://www.moparsuspension.com/pages/mopar-suspension-frequently-asked-questions.phpAlso...hemidenny nor RMS have their respective specs posted on their website either....or at least I cant find them. So where's those specs