A833 - are they usually a hard box to drive?

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hux340

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Just recently bought a Dodge Demon 340 with the A833. Car has been restored back in 09 & done stuff all kms since then, but don't know what was done to the box.
The box seems fine on a cool day, but on a warm day & the hotter it gets it just seems hard to put into gears & you have to work at it. Is this common?
 
Find out what fluid it has in it for starters if you can.
You may just need different or better stuff.

Thinner fluid works good cold, but when it gets hot it gets too thin for the synchronizer rings to work well.
 
Only by compare to the new boxes of today.
Double check all the parts are properly installed, lined up, bind free in operation with gear oil filled to the top of the fill plug.

Oh, if the clutch and flywheel are mis aligned, this could also be an issue.
 
The clutch expands when it gets hot so it might be your adjusting rod needs some more adjustment. i think its a 9/16 nut just loosen it a bit that will make if easier to disengage the clutch see if it helps.
 
I've personally found the 833 box to be extremely easy to shift.

A few years ago I thought I wanted a C3 corvette.

I drove almost a dozen, including several 4 speed cars, and even a few early C4's with the 4+3.

It was amazing how much better the 833 in my D100 (and every other 833 or 435 I've ever driven) was compared to the muncies and Doug Nash boxes.

Easier to find the gears, easier throw, and easier to go 2-3, plus more forgiving clutch with less effort.
 
Munched synchro teeth caused similar symptoms in mine.

Jamie passon fixed it right up but I wish I'd got the five speed.
 
As mentioned above, check the gear oil first and make sure it is full and not ATF. Another thing that I had issues with in the past is the pilot bushing, it can be too snug and when it warms up it will hang onto or drag the input shaft when it gets hot. I've also had a pressure plate go bad and when the car warmed up it wouldn't fully release the clutch which made it very hard to shift and get into gear.
 
If it shifts worse hot, there is something wrong, not necessarily in the box

Not sure if / how the clutch might be affected by hot /cold, but I would CERTAINLY check that the thing is releasing clean. Figure out "what is in there" and consult the people who made it as to release gap

PILOT BUSHING. If the bell / transmission / engine is slightly out of line, and or if the pilot is too tight or not lubricated, THAT would bind it up

I don't see poor syncros causing this worse hot rather than cold.

There's a large disagreement on ATF vs 90 wt. Some guys claim they had better luck always using ATF, some say 90wt.

I always used 90 wet in mine. I never considered a Mopar box particularly easy to shift.
 
I always use 90 wt gear oil, not synthetic. If the box is good and tight, it is centered on the bell housing pilot hole, a Hurst shifter that is adjusted and torqued to specs, and the throw out bearing is adjusted correctly, there is nothing better shifting than an A833.
 
If you are particularly talking about getting it into 1st or reverse, try pulling it into 2nd gear first, then either 1st or reverse.

hope it helps
 
1st. get whatever is in that transmission out of it. pull drain plug and drain it.

2nd. put whatever you want back in it so we can rule out the fluid causing it. I use 50wt kendall motor oil. do not put anything synthetic in it. mopar 4 speeds operate on friction and synthetic fluids counter the transmissions design.
 
1st. get whatever is in that transmission out of it. pull drain plug and drain it.

2nd. put whatever you want back in it so we can rule out the fluid causing it. I use 50wt kendall motor oil. do not put anything synthetic in it. mopar 4 speeds operate on friction and synthetic fluids counter the transmissions design.

X2, change the fluid, and do not put synthetic fluid in it. Synthetic is too "slipery" for the syncros and causes hard shifts.

Personally I am a fan of atf in them, it was recommended in the factory manuals in cooler climates. In my experience it works great and makes for a nice shifting 4 speed. Just my opinion though.
 
Some days when it's hot if I want to go from 1st to reverse for instance _ nup not gonna happen. Only way to do it is turn the car off jam it in reverse turn the car on & away I go. That sux.
 
Some days when it's hot if I want to go from 1st to reverse for instance _ nup not gonna happen. Only way to do it is turn the car off jam it in reverse turn the car on & away I go. That sux.



Do you feel a drag when you start it back up? Like if the clutch is dragging or partially engaged? If so, check the adjustment. If it is adjusted correctly, (and you've eliminated the fluid) I bet it's a defective pressure plate or pilot bushing issue. I've had both go bad and what you are describing is exactly what my cars were doing.
 
The only 833 I had trouble with was because the pilot bushing was shot. Someone else mentioned this also. I could not speed shift this thing at all, I tried every thing and found the bad bushing.
Brent
 
Lot's of great advice shared already. I tried several different oils in mine, and finally landed on Red Line MTL. It's on the spendy side, but I found it shifts noticeably better with it than any of the standard choices.
Knowing that the clutch is working properly is a must as well.
 
Some days when it's hot if I want to go from 1st to reverse for instance _ nup not gonna happen. Only way to do it is turn the car off jam it in reverse turn the car on & away I go. That sux.

Reverse has no syncro.So oil type has no effect on this gear.If it wants to grind while attempting to engage reverse, then the inputshaft is failing to come to a stop. Or if you wait too long and the shaft has in fact stopped, then occasionally the straight cut gears have landed nose-to nose, and you have to either "jam it in" or give it a little pedal,while putting a little pressure on the stick.
Now as to the input failing to stop, here are the possible reasons for that; 1)Insufficient plate departure(not enough disengagement), or 2) a crooked departure,as in bent disc,or faulty pp,or 3) shaft dragging in crank.

Finally, if the plate departure is good, then we move to aligning the Neutral Gate and securing the levers onto the studs. This is the number one trouble spot. The nuts come a little loose and then the external levers start to round the corners of the internal levers, and then setting up the neutral gate becomes impossible.Short of replacing parts, I have found the best solution to these rounded corners is red loc-tite.The hard part is not getting that stuff where you don't want it. It absolutely must not find it's way between the cover and the internal lever, and it wants to desperately wick its way in there.In the past, with the cover on the box and in the car, I have tried two methods; 1) was to apply sewing machine oil into that space and allow it to wick into there, and wipe off the access, and 2) was to apply a thin coat of RTV sealer over the area, and let it dry.Both methods worked for me.Next is to get the loc-tite to fill the voids between the levers and the indexed shoulders. I pre coat all the surfaces involved,including the threaded stud, and then correctly install the lever and the special serrated nut.(BTW; this nut has a built in flange. On that flange you will see a series of radially oriented serrations. These bite into the metal levers, better than any loc-washers, and press the lever down flat onto the stud.If the nuts have been allowed to operate loose, then the serrations lose their sharpness and they will no longer hold their torque.Do not be tempted to replace these with regular grade 5 stuff.The grade 5 stuff will not hold it's torque. The loc washer will fail, the flat washer will squeeze out and the threads in the nut will pull out,not necessarily in that order. Loc-tite will prevent the grade 5 nut from backing off but will do nothing for the washers, and the levers will work loose again, and you will be back to square one.Except now you have the loc-tite to deal with.If your serrated nuts are MIA, try to find the correct replacements, or use grade 8 or better parts.) Then I back off the nut a couple of turns and drizzle a bit more loc-tite in there. And finally tighten the nut. The access loc-tite will squeeze out the back, and run down the the back of the lever or maybe the cover. Wipe up what you can. Do both like this; the 1-2 and the 3-4. Give it a half hour, and come back. Make sure it shifts. Repeat in an hours time. Do not use the nut to shift it, use the outer lever and a crescent wrench. Once this is dry,it will not work loose for a very,very, long time. Then reinstall the shiftrods and set up the neutral gate.

Oil is a preference, except as mentioned, do not use synthetics. In winter ATF works well. In summer 80/90 works well. If the brass rings are set up right, ATF is awesome.
The gears in this box are big and heavy. In summer the thicker oil can help slow those bad boys down, making it easier on the brass rings. But that same thick oil is hard to squeeze out of from between the brass and the cone; and until it is out, the brass cannot do it's job. So it's a bit of a balancing act. The ATF squeezes out real nice.

FWIW;My all-time favorite shifting boxs from the 60s and 70s were the top-loader Fords. Man, when those were new, they were marvelous.
I remember my first Chrysler 4-spd. It was fall of 70, and I just purchased my second car, a 70Swinger340.I was 17. It had just 11,000 miles on it.It shifted OK, cuz it was new, and it was mine, and I didn't know any better. The following year, my brother in law purchased a 70 or 71 Cougar351 The top-loader in that thing was something else.
Fast forward to the late ninetys. By now I had learned to make the A833 box shift.These boxes can be made to shift like that. Maybe better.I wanna say better, but I haven't shifted a Ford for a very,very,long time now.

So now let's talk about engaging First from a dead stop. The very first question is; does it grind? No is a good answer. Next, does it engage eventually?Yes is a good answer; it means the brass is working. But its having a hard time bringing the geartrain to a stop, So that goes back to plate departure;you need a little more.. A no answer means the brass just can't do it, and there is something wrong in the clutch, preventing it from coming to a stop .
Occasionally the brass works too good, instantly stopping the works, but again landing the gears nose-to-nose, and stopping the stick from completing the shift unless "jammed". Again, a little pedal while pressure is applied to the stick, will move the teeth, and in she goes.
Back to question one; if it grinds,And you know for sure that there is no, NO, synthetic oil in there,then the brass is done, and it's time for a rebuild.
 
Lot's of great advice shared already. I tried several different oils in mine, and finally landed on Red Line MTL. It's on the spendy side, but I found it shifts noticeably better with it than any of the standard choices.
Knowing that the clutch is working properly is a must as well.

Bingo......Redline MTL.

Installed this in my 833, and it shifts so much better.

Read up on brass syncros, and what type of oil they need.
Then put Redline MTL in. You wont be sorry.
 
My ex wife wanted her box drove as hard as possible.
 
Bingo......Redline MTL.

Installed this in my 833, and it shifts so much better.

Read up on brass syncros, and what type of oil they need.
Then put Redline MTL in. You wont be sorry.

Mine shifts very nicely. I was surprised never having driven an A-833 before I got my Duster.
x3 on the Redline MTL - I changed mine last year. Shot an email over to Brewer's Performance as I wasn't sure what would work best. They said it would work great and it does. Shifts smoothly cold or hot. Seems to be an improvement over what was in it when I bought the car.

Steve
 
Just a little info on the difference between gear oil and "syncro oil", and which is best for use with yellow metal syncros. (brass)

[ame]http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf[/ame]

hope it helps
 
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