wait thats a good point, the perch offset. the Dr Different spring relocatation kit...
1965 Barracuda Build
- Thread starter GoneShawn
- Start date
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ok guys, More thought on the matter and I do agree.
Lets do someting a bit more modern, I found one I like , comes in all kinds of sizes.
Heres the options Ive narrowed it down and need help with final selection.
Rear wheels are always more fun.. Lets start there (rear end is being custom fab we have wiggle room on the dims)
option #1) 20"x8.5 with a 4.75 back space (spring relocation kit) will that fit?
option #2) 18"x8 with a 4.5" back space (spring relocation kit will that fit?
Front wheel Options (I should have stock trac width -.20")
option #1) 18"x8" with 4.5" back space will that fit?
option #2) 17"x7" with 4' back space will that fit?
You need to know how much room you have and what tire will fit. Then it is what wheel is right for the tire and correct offset. Use Tire Rack to look up wheel size, section width and such.
With these older cars you want at least a little bit of sidewall, it is part of the suspension of the car. I would be hesitant to go over 18". 18" does open up options because wheel has more clearance (clears upper ball joint and tie rod) and good performance tires are hard to find under 18".
For example, a 275/40-18 Michelin has a 10.9" section width. If you have 12 to 12-1/2 inches of room you could squeeze that in. It is 26.7" tall (4.3" sidewall) and will fit on a 9-11" wide wheel. They measured section with a 9.5" wheel. Pretty typical for people to use a 10" wheel on a 275 tire. Maybe you can fit a 10" wide tire in the front? A matching front tire could be a 245/40-18 which would want an 8.5" wide wheel and results in a section width of 9.8". That tire is 25.7" tall. So, 1/2" shorter sidewall and a slight natural rake to the car.
I'm not as familiar with 1st gen Barracuda, but that combo would fit a 2nd gen for sure.
Your best bet is to see if you can find anything that fits that you can put on or borrow to get measurements for the front. Rear is much easier.
This is 245/45-17 front and 255/50-17 rear on 17x8 wheels as an example.
Below is 18x9 front, 18x10 rear. 255/40-18 F and 295/40-18 R. Not fitting 1st or 2nd gen Barracuda without significant modifications.
Thats a really good point. What your sort of saying is : what I should do, Is go rip off the back tire, toss a straight edge onto the rear drum extended high enough so I can measure the distance from the face of the drum to the nearest obstruction (ie frame rail)
then I know my maximum back space and then measure to the quater well, or at least where it would be chopped up to get a wheel in there and have my eyes on the max width.
You guys know more than me but, I should at least try
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That looks great!
the front profile photo of the green barracuda, really shows he got the back spacing right. its tight under the car, that what I like too
that
thats a good color too, sort of midnight green?
Because of assembly tolerances, all these cars are different. Even the same car is different side to side. You're going to have to actually MEASURE for wheel and tire fitment. There's no gettin around it. Also, this is just my opinion. I don't believe a 10" wheel will fit. I had center line 9.5" on the rear of my 65 and the JUST would get under there.
It is an extremely close match to the original color.
Here is a car painted the original color GG1 Forest Green Metallic in Laquer:
WA9529 Basecoat / Clearcoat - Difference is really the lighting:
When I was matching up the paint I took a touch up sample and painted a line on the rear package shelf that had been under the upholstery since the car was built and it was a near perfect match considering the difference between a lacquer and polyurethane paint.
you're headed for somewhat nebulous, uncharted waters and as much as you probably don't want to hear it, you're going to have to get in there and physically measure.
to do this "right" you should mock up a rear end with the brakes or have a rear end present and the criticals on those so you'll know where everything falls. in addition to this, you'll want to set your ride height because that will be a limiting factor as well.
very good point
Im going to measure today, but We Have a bit of the chicken and the egg sinerio. I have 2 option with wheels. Buy something off the self, or custom order a set of wheels. Last build I did I ordered custom Budnick wheels, measured thoughly and they fit well, very expensive. Wheels and tires were over $4,000 on that build: budnick wheels and michelen pilot supersport tires (that was 10 years ago costs.) Already had a killer rear end.
On this Car, It needs a rear end. Where I need to have a custom rear end built, It seem most economical to at least see if I can find a wheel off the shelf that would fit the project. The wheels I think would compliment the car have a backset of 4.75 and 4.5 in the rear. I prefer the 4.75 wheel. 4.75 sounds a bit much for a stock rear end, but I could have them bump the rearend just .25 of an inch to get them to fit. I find value in stick with the factory rear end dims, but if Im able to get a wheel package for half the price of custom wheels thats $2,000 savings
Im considering adding that 1/4" to either side of the rear. now that does also seem like : If i just order longer lugs, I could use a 1/4" wheel spacer, but that seem like poor planning?
so... here's what *I* would do
(full caveat: i am actually three raccoons in a trench coat)
start with what is known and then extrapolate from there.
you (likely) have a 7.25 in there now, so that dimension is knowable. now you can compare that to these data points in this thread:
then, with that information, and the specs from the disc kit and moser you can calculate what your wheel mounting surface is. so that's one critical. in the same hand, you'll know where the spring lands-- this is a fixed point, so an easy calc.
the next would be setting up your dummy axle to the ride height(s) you think you'd like to be at-- so you'll need the rim size, but more importantly the tire size from the manufacturer because not all same size tires are the same size, ya dig?
so now you have your ride height, your WMS and where the spring is-- from there with the rim specs you can see if or how far you need to move the spring, and thus the perches on the axle housing, along with an idea of the area that the rim and tire takes up. this should give you a fairly good idea and decent picture of how everything is going to fit and where possible points of contact are.
don't forget to account for suspension movement. not only vertically but also horizontally. hard cornering can lead to shifting the axle ever so slightly and rubbing the wells and or frame/springs.
i understand a lot of this is abstract and a pain with the physical moving and positioning of heavy components, but that's the price of admission for running on the ragged edge rim/tire wise.
full disclaimer: it's early and i'm not fully caffeinated-ed yet, and as mentioned i am also three raccoons, so i probably missed something in there. but you get the overall idea of the thing with the stuffs.
mygasser
Well-Known Member
if you're having the rear end custom made, you know from experience custom wheels are very expensive. so if it were me i'd buy the wheels i want off the shelf and the savings can go towards the custom rear end made to suit the wheels. so if as you said put a straight edge on the existing rear end that allows you to measure inwards and out to determine overall wheel/tyre width (regardless of backspace) get the off the shelf wheel tyre package in the wheel well and measure between the mounting faces side to side.
neil.
neil.
After measuring the car this seems very close to accurate for my situation, only real difference is we decided 18 in wheels ..not 15 as I previously mentioned) as of right now, we hope to go with
18x8 rear with 4.5 backspacing
17x7 front (have not measured actually space yet but 4.5 is avaible and hopefully will fit)
very close to being able to not relocat the spring, but mind as well to be safe?
I think maybe it's four or five. Maybe six.
Nasty. But hay, it's your car, I wish you well.
I spoke with Peter from Bergman, and I certainly do not want to speak on his behalf, but He convinced me, if you want the car to really perform go 18" wheels at least, my words not his but.
I do like the centerline wheels, all time classic beautiful wheels. Tire roll and sidwall play a part I guess... It really depends on what your average joe might expect behind the wheel. I would probably be more than happy with a 15 inch wheel , but I understand the difference.
Good evening, and more mopar parts are for sure good.
Fun Update today, Finalized and signed off for Moser to build the rear end. I have to say, They are awsome to deal with.
We know theres a sliding scale when it comes to customer service. They get a perfect 10. They are beyond good, please let me explain;
I signed off on the 3rd draft. (just tossing and turning on my end of details) And I got an email, just before fab
they wanted to chat...What detail was left? no Idea, so I call and The gentelman I was working with mentions, " I remeber we were talking and just wanted to double check".
I called, he was on the other line....got on the phone within 10 seconds. He remebered, what I had forgotten
He remebered, I jokingly told him, the only chevy part on this build would be the bolt pattern on the wheels 5x4.75.
and he asked, are you sure. and I said yes because more wheels are in that pattern.. and he said no worries, I just know that mopar has the 4.5. And then while we were talking, it made scense. Asked him to hold a moment and I realized.. hold one second, please if you could... he could... I pulled up my desired wheels. On the shelf with 4.5 pattern in the backspace I want and hate to admit 4.75 wasnt. And then the scenario came to mind, be stuck with a chevy bolt pattern, or Mopar ..and like a bolt of lightning it hit me. Lets go 4.5 mopar..Then we can play with Mopar wheels.. Thats customer service at its finest. Smart enough to care enough to double check a detail like that.
And today we also ordered the BAC spring relocation kit with the slider. The more I think about that kit , the more I like it.
Looks like suspention is on the agenda this month.
Fun Update today, Finalized and signed off for Moser to build the rear end. I have to say, They are awsome to deal with.
We know theres a sliding scale when it comes to customer service. They get a perfect 10. They are beyond good, please let me explain;
I signed off on the 3rd draft. (just tossing and turning on my end of details) And I got an email, just before fab
they wanted to chat...What detail was left? no Idea, so I call and The gentelman I was working with mentions, " I remeber we were talking and just wanted to double check".
I called, he was on the other line....got on the phone within 10 seconds. He remebered, what I had forgotten
He remebered, I jokingly told him, the only chevy part on this build would be the bolt pattern on the wheels 5x4.75.
and he asked, are you sure. and I said yes because more wheels are in that pattern.. and he said no worries, I just know that mopar has the 4.5. And then while we were talking, it made scense. Asked him to hold a moment and I realized.. hold one second, please if you could... he could... I pulled up my desired wheels. On the shelf with 4.5 pattern in the backspace I want and hate to admit 4.75 wasnt. And then the scenario came to mind, be stuck with a chevy bolt pattern, or Mopar ..and like a bolt of lightning it hit me. Lets go 4.5 mopar..Then we can play with Mopar wheels.. Thats customer service at its finest. Smart enough to care enough to double check a detail like that.
And today we also ordered the BAC spring relocation kit with the slider. The more I think about that kit , the more I like it.
Looks like suspention is on the agenda this month.
So what width did you go with for the rear end? Is Moser installing the spring perches at 42" C-C for the BAC kit?
Good morning.
Here's the build sheet. I measured the existing perch center to center and the worksheet they sent seem to match there calculations within1/8" or less.
On the car currently, I measured 43-1/4" center of perch to center of perch.
Inward half an inch on either side was the concept for The BAC slider stuff. The build sheet : dimension L is 42-1/8.
Seems like that will worked.
The Dimensions D should be stock. This is an old sheet. I believe D is now 57-1/8
Thanks for checking it out.
Here's the build sheet. I measured the existing perch center to center and the worksheet they sent seem to match there calculations within1/8" or less.
On the car currently, I measured 43-1/4" center of perch to center of perch.
Inward half an inch on either side was the concept for The BAC slider stuff. The build sheet : dimension L is 42-1/8.
Seems like that will worked.
The Dimensions D should be stock. This is an old sheet. I believe D is now 57-1/8
Thanks for checking it out.
Woody500
Well-Known Member
People on FABO say to always take new heads apart & double check everything. They're usually saying it about other brands, so I'm not sure what the consensus is on Trickflow, or if you should inspect their work like the rest.Ok, We have a update, ordered ATK SP57 Which is a Magnum 408 short block with Forged Crank, Forged Rods and Forged Pistions. thats a 20.5 dish piston from Jegs.
Summit just started a new promotion, so I ordered the Trickflow 190 heads and the Trickflow Track Heat Intake
Which should be somewhere around 10. to 1 compression ratio.
The trick is order one head at a time to make best use of the "over $1,000 = $80 off and $40 off $500 so i threw in some gasket and a spark plug to get to $500 on the intake .. all together on the 3 items, I got $200 off.. All in stock, went with fully assembled roller hydraulic springs for the extra few bucks..Not to shabby Single plane intake.. just dump it in there..lol
Somebody will probably be glad to fill us in.
I bet spraying it with some cleaner would do it. I was thinking of just pulling the valves and checking the clearance on the valves.. Ive heard some say the bronze guides are tight and need honing.
Some like to run the car with one spring when breaking in a flat tappet cam.
Im running roller lifters. It looks clean as a whistle, but, I do agree might be worth a visit, plus thats kind of a fun one, so long as I get the keeps back in right lol
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