.13 mA draw on battery normal?

[BillGrissom]

Don't rely on that rusty sheet-metal screw to ground your ignition module. The factory did, which causes endless problems today. Run a dedicated ground wire. Next time you get nothing when you turn the key, turn on the dome light and use that as a poor-man's voltmeter. If it doesn't light up with key off, problem in the wiring. If it gets real dim when you try to crank, problems with the battery or battery terminals.

When I lived in Atlanta, I had to clean the battery terminals every 2 years or "no crank". Consider that normal maintenance for any car in the east. If you read the voltage directly at the battery posts (not connectors) and it holds >11 V as you try to crank, but the starter doesn't turn, the problem is corrosion at the post to clamp interface. Use a battery brush, sold everywhere because a common issue.

 

[sargentrs]

Thanks for the tips, Bill! I like the "poor man's voltmeter".

 

[sargentrs]

Here we go again. Started fine all week. Drive 4 miles to my sons house and now she's dead again. And of course, I have no tools with me. I have headlights but no turn signals. I'll have to get him to run me home and get my voltmeter n tools.:banghead:

 

[nm9stheham]

At least it is just 4 miles...... new lesson: tools stay in the car 'til this is really fixed! Make sure the ignition switch is in RUN when you check for turn signals. Headlights at somewhat close to regular brightness on means that there is a connection through the fusible link into the interior. Have you cleaned all the grounds and the battery terminals?

 

[sargentrs]

Switch in run with no turn signals. Battery terminals clean. Can jump across starter with screwdriver and turn over and have spark at coil wire when grounded to inner fender.

 

[sargentrs]

Hard to tell how bright headlights are, bright sunny day. Have power to dash with key on. I know because my parking brake cable snapped and the red brake light in the dash won't go out unless you hold the handle in. I keep a rubber band around it for now.

 

[nm9stheham]

Good to know that you have the ignition OK; I presume this with thr key in RUN and with the screwdriver on the starter?

Check the brown-yellow wire from the firewall connector to the starter relay for 12v when you turn the key to START.

If 12V IS going to the start relay, then check the other brown-yellow wire with the key in START and see if it 12v or 0v. If 0V, then the starter relay is bad. If 12V is there, then the neutral start switch (or clutch switch for a manual) is bad (or the wiring) or there is a misalignment in the auto trans shift linkage.

If 12V IS NOT going to the starter relay on the 1st brown-yellow wire, then it is in the igntion switch, the switch connector, the wires, or the firewall connector where that brown-yellow wire goes through.

(BTW, Not having turns signals with the key in RUN makes the ignition switch suspicious, but please go through the start system troubleshooting above first.)

Do you have access to the schematic? That always helps me....

 

[sargentrs]

OK. Have no power on brown wire or brown/yellow wire at starter relay. Have power to yellow, black and dk blue wires from ignition switch.

 

[sargentrs]

I have schematic in front of me. Btw, above at relay was with key on.

 

[sargentrs]

Incidentally, I noticed when I the key to start, the brake warning light in dash dimmed considerably.

 

[nm9stheham]

Test the brown and brown yellow wires with the key in START; the brown wire only has power when in START as noted, not in RUN. It is the wire from the ignition switch that activates the starter relay when starting the car and only has 12v when starting. Voltage show up on different wires and connections when in START vs RUN so you have to do this right.

The brake light dimming could indicate that there is a corroded spot in the power connections from the battery, in the fusible link, the buklhead connection, in the welded splice in the harnes or a related spot. Look at the battery voltage sitting, and then when the key is in start and then move along to the big stud on the start relay, then to the fusible link off of the realy at its firewall connection. Find where the battery voltage drops in that chain when the key is in start.

You gotta do these tests to find this out. And if you want to get on the phone, PM me and I'll PM my phone number back and we can do this in real time. I am somewhat idle this Sat eve.

 

[sargentrs]

Thanks for the offer! I'll sure take you up on that. Here's what else transpired. Suddenly lost power to the dashboard. Started tracing from the battery to the firewall. All was good on both sides of the fusible link. Had nothing on the inside though. Went back to the engine compartment and checked the main feed again. Had voltage from the battery all the way to the fusible link but nothing on the other side of it. Aha! Checked again, nothing on the front side of it. WTH! Backed up along the firewall to the inner fender and all was good. There was about 3" worth of black electrical tape a little ways up from the fusible link. Cut it open and found a yellow butt connector splice. Went to examine it and the wire just fell out. Gotta love them PO's! Didn't have anything to work with so just cut back the insulation, twisted them together and black taped them till I could do better at home. In the meantime, while patching the splice, the terminal pulled right out of the bulkhead. I had been avoided pulling out the bulkhead connectors but now I had no choice. Sure enough the plastic was busted and the terminal was no longer seated in the connector. Looked like it had burnt and melted at one time. Reamed it out, cleaned the terminal, squeezed the female terminals in the bulkheads a little, slid it through, stuck it the female terminal and eased the bulkhead back on. Now I had power to the dash again. Probably just going to go ahead and do the madelectrical "straight through" thing tomorrow. What does one do to "refurb" a bulkhead connector, i.e., clean the terminals, ensure a good seated connection, etc?

Back to the original problem. Had no power to the yellow or brown-yellow wire at the starter relay in any position. The brown-yellow runs up near the bulkhead connector where another yellow splices into it and then it drops a couple of gauges and goes into the connector to the neutral safety switch. Pulled the connect to the neutral safety switch and have 12v at the 2 black wires but nothing at the brown-yellow wire. Where does the current on the brown-yellow, or the yellow, wire going to the starter relay come from? Tried tracing it from the wiring diagram at the bulkhead but the wiring colors don't appear to match. I really appreciate your help with this.

 

[pishta]

Im going to read this in front if my meter, but for tonight, just get a battery disconnect, NHRA style and cut it at night. Theft deterent.....miliamp draw killing a battery overnight? That battery is tired.

 

[nm9stheham]

Good deal on the fusible link's inadvertant 'fuse'..... ya gotta love that. That is a big part of your issues there. Bet your brake light does not dim now when you turn the key to start.

Sounds like you are on the right for the NSS wires; the 12v at the 2 black wires is for the reverse light and will be that way 'til you put the trannie in reverse. Ignore those for now. The brown yellow sounds like it has had a new wire spliced into it; you need to check that splice eventually to see if it is kaput.

The big stud on the starter relay ought to have power to it all the time; that is a direct connect from the battery all the time. There is a connection on the starter relay that is at an angle to the case; that one ought to receive 12V from the ignition switch when the key is in START; is shows the wire being brown-yelow on my schematic. That 12v comes via connection L in the bulkhead connector. You ought to be able to physically trace that wire from the start relay's angled connection to the bulkhead connector.

 

[sargentrs]

Yes, the stud on the relay is constant hot, direct connection to the battery positive. The brown-yellow wire does not go to the bulkhead like the wiring diagram shows. Coming from the leftmost bulkhead connector are a blue/white, black, and black/white wires leading to a 3 prong connector. Out of this connector are two black wires and a brown-yellow wire (smaller gauge than to the starter relay) with the brown-yellow wire connected to the blue/white. The brown-yellow from the starter relay splices into the brown-yellow wire from the connector and then the 2 black wires and the smaller gauge brown-yellow wire lead to a connector which goes to the NSS. The brown-yellow wire has no voltage on it at any time regardless of the ignition position.

 

[sargentrs]

Im going to read this in front if my meter, but for tonight, just get a battery disconnect, NHRA style and cut it at night. Theft deterent.....miliamp draw killing a battery overnight? That battery is tired.

Been fine for the past week. Battery's good. Thanks for the tip!

 

[nm9stheham]

Do you have 4 wires on the start relay? You should have 4 if it the right one.
1. The large stud with the battery connection
2. The smaller connection with the starter's solenoid wire to it (the smaller ware to the starter).
3. The wire from to the NSS; that is the brown-yellow wire you describe above. That will be at 0V all the time IF the car is in neutral (and the NSS switch works). This is the ground side of the starter relay coil.
4. The last wire is brown on the schematic and should be the one left after the process of elimination. This is the one that should have 12v on it when the key is in START. It oughta come from the bulkhead connector.

 

[sargentrs]

Yes, 4 wires just as you described except #4 is yellow and does come from the bulkhead connector. I'll go out and check for voltage as you detailed in a little while.

 

[nm9stheham]

And the schematic here shows brown-yellow (not brown as I last posted) on the engine side of the bulkhead connector and yellow on the passnerger side of that connector, so yellow makes some sense.

 

[sargentrs]

Here's a couple of pics of the starter relay and that brown-yellow wire splice and connector I mentioned above. The starter relay maps out just like you said. In the pic of the brown-yellow wire connector, you can see the wire from the relay coming in from the bottom left corner. The 3 prong connector in the center left comes from the bulkhead connector. The 2 black wires and yellow wire go from the other side of the connector, the brown-yellow wire from the starter relay splices into it, drops to the same gauge and the yellow wire and then the black wires and the smaller gauge brown-yellow wire plug into the connector going to the neutral safety switch. I don't see that connector or splice represented on my wiring diagram but it all looks original. Am I overlooking something? P.S. You can also see that "inadvertant fuse" splice I whipped up yesterday evening to get her home.

 

[nm9stheham]

The yellow-brown wire from the relay is going to the NSS to be grounded by the NSS when in neutral or park as it should be. The yellow wire going back into the 3 prong connector and that connects to blue-white wire which is probably going back into the passenger compartment to a conenctor that would go to the clutch switch in a manual trans car; it would ground that wire (and thus the brown-yellow wire and thus the gorund end of the realy) when the clutch was depressed for starting. You can see this clutch switch in the diagram; either it or the NSS provides the ground for the start relay.

The yellow wire into your start relay on the terminal that is angled to the others is the one where 12V should show up when the key is in START.
- If 12V is on the yellow wire with the key in START, then check on the brown-yellow wire from the relay to see if it is 12V or 0V with the key in START. If 12V is there, then the NSS or the shift linkage is AFU; if 0V, then the start relay is bad.
- If 0v is on the yellow wire with the key in START, then the ignition switch, it's connector, or the bulkhead connection or the associated wiring is bad.

So this is all laid out pretty well... time for the voltmeter and elbow grease!

 

[sargentrs]

May have found the root problem. Was resplicing the AMP/fusible link connection this morning when the wire came out of the bulkhead connector again. This time it left the blade terminal stuck in the bulkhead. Spliced on a new blade and respliced my hack job from yesterday, both twisted, soldered, crimped, shrink tube and taped. Plugged it all back in and she fired right up. I'll start accumulating supplies for the madelectrical rewire and put that at the top of the to-do list. Thanks to everyone for all the help and encouragement!