1973 225 valve adjustment help!please!

[Bulldozer]

ive owned nothing but hydraulic camshaft engines(318-360-383-400-440) and i now own my first 225 six EVER ! anyway ,the engine is a 225 6 bolted to a 3 speed manual. it has 146,000 on it and it runs fairly well, but after it warms up,it sounds like it is about to come unglued. all the info i can find says that it has solid lifters with adjustable valves.i have never had the valve cover off but i know it to be the original engine. it has plenty of oil pressure and does not smoke or misfire. is this ticking the valves out of adjustment? what is the simplest/best way to adjust the valves and what lash do i set them at? i thank everyone in advance for any info THANKS!

 

[Bulldozer]

surely someone has info... lol

 

[Bill Dedman]

hmmmmmm.....i take it nobody has ever adjusted the valves on their 225... interesting

I am a novice at this, but here's what I do:

Remove the valve cover.

Attach a push-button switch to the starter relay so you can "bump" the engine with the starter. You can turn it by hand, with a wrench on the crank bolt (assuming it has one; some apparently don't), but it's tiresome.... even with the spark plugs removed. The pusbutton starter switch is easier.

Pull the wire out of the coil and ground it, so the engine won't try to fire.

With the valve cover removed, you can see the rocker arms and the valve springs. The cylinders are numbered 1 through 6, front-to-rear.

Starting with the forward-most (very first) valve spring/rocker arm, use the pushbutton to turn the engine to the position where the valve NEXT to the first one, (the second one back) is open a good bit(at least, halfway)... you can tell, by the action of the valve-end of the rocker arm.

With that (second) valve somewhat open, you can be assurred that the one you are working on (adjusting) is in the correct position (the lifter on the heel of the cam, not the lobe) to be adjusted.

Take a feeler gauge and select the .018" thickness and slip the blade in the space between the valve stem and the rocker arm "pad" where it touches the valve.

If it goes into that space without any resistance at all, the clearance is set too loose. On the other end of the rocker arm, there is a threaded screw that contacts the pushrod on the bottom side. Turn it clockwise, until you feel a slight resistance to pulling out the feeler gauge blade.
If you get it too tight, just back the screw off a little, 'til you're satisfied. Take your time.

When it feels "right," with a slight resistance to pulling out the gauge, you are done with that valve.

Now, go to the next valve toward the firewall, and repeat the procedure, being careful to make sure the other valve FOR THAT CYLINDER is open, preferably, all the way, but at least halfway open. That's the one you just adjusted.

Remember; the valves are all in a row, and in pairs (Intake/Exhaust) so just because a valve is NEXT TO the one you are adjusting, that doesn't necessarily mean that you can use it as a reference point in its travel, to position the crank so you can adjust the valve next to it. The first two valves are for cylinder #1; the next two, for cylinder #2, and so on... you get the idea. As I said, they're in pairs. One group of two han NOTHING to do with the next two, for the activity we are talking about.

I use .018" for a "cold" setting. Ideally, these valves should be set on an engine that is up to operating temperature, and running, but this will probably get rid of your "ticking."

I hope I didn't insult your intelligence; I don't know how much you know...

Good luck with this.

Any more questions, just ask away...

 

[67Dart273]

The safe way to adjust ANY engine with solid tappets is to rememsber

EOIC

Which means

Wrench/ bump the engine around until


the EXHAUST valve just starts to OPEN, and adjust the intake on that cylinder

wrench/ bump until

the INTAKE has opened and is almost CLOSED and adjust the exhaust for that side

I usually pick a feeler "at spec" and one about .002-003 larger, adjust until the "spec" goes in but not the oversize

 

[bigall]

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72139&highlight=#72139 this is how i've always done mine,as recommended by an old chrysler mecanic i know too.

 

[Bulldozer]

thanks guys i appreciate your help, on my way out to give it shot!

 

[cudamark]

I warm it up to operating temp....set it at a low idle....shut it off......pull the valve cover, start it up and adjust it while it's running......010 intake and .021 exhaust. Just be carefull with the 3/8 wrench that you don't get your fingers pinched while you install or remove it from the adjuster. I find this to be the quickest and most accurate way of doing it.

 

[67Dart273]

http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=72139&highlight=#72139 this is how i've always done mine,as recommended by an old chrysler mecanic i know too.

This nonsense of using a distributor cap and setting a pair of valves at TDC will get you into trouble. ESPECIALLY if you have installed a larger camshaft, the two lifters ARE NOT on the "backside" of the cam lobe at TDC!!!!

That is the entire reason for the EOIC method. When you jack the exhaust valve slightly open, the intake IS on the back of the cam

In my opinion, trying to set them running is just silly

 

[Bulldozer]

This nonsense of using a distributor cap and setting a pair of valves at TDC will get you into trouble. ESPECIALLY if you have installed a larger camshaft, the two lifters ARE NOT on the "backside" of the cam lobe at TDC!!!!

That is the entire reason for the EOIC method. When you jack the exhaust valve slightly open, the intake IS on the back of the cam

In my opinion, trying to set them running is just silly

it doesnt seem to me that trying to set the lash while its running can be very accurate and i would not attempt to. i started with the number one cylinder int/ex valves.with the engine warmed up and not running, i bumped the engine around untill the intake valve was partially open and the exhaust valve all the way closed, then setting the exhaust lash at .20 and then bumped it around untill the intake valve was all the way closed and the exhaust valve partially open and set the intake valve lash at .10 and so on and so forth for each set of valves. bringing the number one piston to top dead center and attempting to set the lash for it did not seem to be working for me although i did not spend any real time trying it that way because you would have to do that for every piston and it was just easier to bump it around (using the starter relay and a screw driver). did i do this correctly????? did i obtain the proper lash for each valve doing it this way? after buttoning it all back together and firing it up,it was so much quieter and smoother . but as my luck would have it , now i can hear a slight knock coming from the engine that i couldnt hear before over the loud valve noise...real bummer. how long will a slant six run with a knock before it explodes, given that it has 10/40 pure synthetic oil and doesnt get driven over 65 miles per hour? anyone know????

 

[67Dart273]

It's not clear to me whether you did this right or not, but sounds like you have the right idea

It does not matter whether you go from "front to back" or "in the firing order" On my V8 I just bump the starter.

You need to be sure that the intake is "ON THE WAY CLOSED" but not quite closed before you set the exhaust

When setting the intake, you want the exhaust "just starting to open" a bit.

On my V8, I go from front to back on one side of the engine, then walk around and do the other head. I do "think about" the firing order, IE bump 'till no2, frontmost on pass side, is set, then the firing order is (2)---1-8 so 8 is next, 8-4.... so 4 is next, 4-3-6... so do six.

On our six, probably easiest to just go from front to back. Make sure you use a feeler a couple of thou bigger as a "no go" gauge.

 

[slantsixdan]

it doesnt seem to me that trying to set the lash while its running can be very accurate

That's how most of us slant-6 freaks do it, because most of us find that's the way that gives the best results. It's not the only possible method of getting a satisfactory adjustment, though. You're wise to raise an eyebrow at methods that are high-handedly professed to be uniformly best for any/all solid-lifter engines; optimal procedures vary widely across different engines with different adjustable valvetrains. It's your decision, of course.

BTW, those Chinese-made chrome valve covers are problematic and it looks like yours may not be set up correctly with respect to the PCV—which will louse up your idle quality and create other problems. See Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3. If you are bound and determined to keep this valve cover on your engine, and if you can make the bolt holes line up, then set up the breather and PCV this way.

 

[Bulldozer]

That's how most of us slant-6 freaks do it, because most of us find that's the way that gives the best results.


*shrug* Your decision, of course.

well im new at it so im probably wrong about it being accurate ,maybe im just a little chicken of firing it up with the valve cover off and sticking my fingers where they dont belong lol, anyways it sure sounds tons better and i hope i havent created more problems by messin with it .....

 

[Bulldozer]

It's not clear to me whether you did this right or not, but sounds like you have the right idea

It does not matter whether you go from "front to back" or "in the firing order" On my V8 I just bump the starter.

You need to be sure that the intake is "ON THE WAY CLOSED" but not quite closed before you set the exhaust

When setting the intake, you want the exhaust "just starting to open" a bit.

On my V8, I go from front to back on one side of the engine, then walk around and do the other head. I do "think about" the firing order, IE bump 'till no2, frontmost on pass side, is set, then the firing order is (2)---1-8 so 8 is next, 8-4.... so 4 is next, 4-3-6... so do six.

On our six, probably easiest to just go from front to back. Make sure you use a feeler a couple of thou bigger as a "no go" gauge.

ok now im starting to understand a little more now that i played with it and im going to go out and rip the cover off and try it again with your advice ,thanks again!

 

[slantsixdan]

now i can hear a slight knock coming from the engine that i couldnt hear before over the loud valve noise...real bummer. how long will a slant six run with a knock before it explodes, given that it has 10/40 pure synthetic oil and doesnt get driven over 65 miles per hour? anyone know????

Don't worry too hard yet. You might just be hearing harmless fuel pump knock. Does it get louder at higher engine speed, or does it stay "slight"? Use a wooden dowel (cut-off broom handle, for example) to try and narrow in on where the knock is coming from. Put one end on a hard surface near where you want to check (on or near the fuel pump, for example) and jam the other end in your ear. Move the non-ear end of the dowel around and once you get the hang of listening to what you're hearing, you will detect the knock grow more pronounced as you move closer to its source. If this narrows in on the front of the engine near the fuel pump, definitive diagnosis can be done quickly and easily by completely blocking off the fuel pump outlet by whatever means is convenient, and then running the engine to see if the knock disappears. If so, it's the fuel pump and you needn't worry about it.

If not, further diagnosis will be required. Rod knocks do not go away on their own. It will also be a good idea to service the oil pressure relief valve to make sure it's doing its job, as described in these two threads: thread 1, thread 2.

 

[valiant1966]

+1 on the engine running. It's not like hydraulic lifters squirting oil all over. I know a an old dealership mechanic and he says that's how they did it.
That's also how I do it. JMO I think it's more accurate. How do you know exactly what is "almost open" and what is "almost closed"? Sounds like guess work and to keep cranking the engine over and over and "oops" I missed it. All the way around again. Once again, JMO

 

[slantsixdan]

One reason why it's easier -- once you've got the feel for it -- to get a proper adjustment with the engine running is that you needn't worry about making absolutely certain the valve you're adjusting is on the heel of its cam lobe. There's a good deal of rotational arc during which there will be some clearance between the rocker and the valve stem; if you adjust the clearance at the wrong point in rotation, your adjustment won't be correct. Also, by doing it with the engine running you can watch and listen to the effect of each adjustment you make (idle grows rough when you go too tight, valve begins to click when you go too loose) in real time. But here again, there is a bit of a learning curve to get a sense for what you're watching and listening to and feeling for. Since you're new and learning, you may want to use your feeler gauges to double-check and see how your static adjustment measures up with the engine running at an extra-slow idle as outlined at the previously-provided valve adjustment procedure link. Don't be afraid; you would have to do something really, almost deliberately boneheaded to get injured or cause damage.

 

[Bulldozer]

That's how most of us slant-6 freaks do it, because most of us find that's the way that gives the best results. It's not the only possible method of getting a satisfactory adjustment, though. You're wise to raise an eyebrow at methods that are high-handedly professed to be uniformly best for any/all solid-lifter engines; optimal procedures vary widely across different engines with different adjustable valvetrains. It's your decision, of course.

BTW, those Chinese-made chrome valve covers are problematic and it looks like yours may not be set up correctly with respect to the PCV—which will louse up your idle quality and create other problems. See Thread 1 Thread 2 Thread 3. If you are bound and determined to keep this valve cover on your engine, and if you can make the bolt holes line up, then set up the breather and PCV this way.

thanks dan! i will be setting up the pcv differently untill i find a new cover,that crap was on there when i bought it....

 

[slantsixdan]

Also, forgot to mention, since you're a new \6 owner: Tune-up parts and technique suggestions in this thread. Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.

 

[cudamark]

+1 on the engine running. It's not like hydraulic lifters squirting oil all over. I know a an old dealership mechanic and he says that's how they did it.
That's also how I do it. JMO I think it's more accurate. How do you know exactly what is "almost open" and what is "almost closed"? Sounds like guess work and to keep cranking the engine over and over and "oops" I missed it. All the way around again. Once again, JMO

I agree totally. Some cams with different durations than stock can be a pain doing the bump method. If it's off just a little, it might not be on the heel of the cam and you get an inaccurate reading. If it's running, it's a no brainer....the feeler gauge will either go in or not. And as Dan mentioned, you can hear the changes being made at the time you're making them. If you find that even after an adjustment is made, you still have a louder than normal click, you may have a worn rocker that you wouldn't have found otherwise. One thing I would ad is, if the engine hasn't had an adjustment for a long time (or ever?), you might want to turn each adjuster a 1/4 turn each way and return it to where you started before you fire the engine up. The things can get stuck to the point where you could accidentally break it off. Better to find out with the engine off so if the adjuster head does break off it would be less likely to fall down into the engine.

 

[slantsixdan]

turn each adjuster a 1/4 turn each way and return it to where you started before you fire the engine up. The things can get stuck to the point where you could accidentally break it off.

Errrrr…fer serious? I have never, ever seen or heard of this actually happening. That doesn't mean it's impossible, of course, it just means I haven't seen or heard of it actually happening. Have you? Much more common is for the adjustors to be too loose to hold an adjustment. Methods of dealing with that are covered in the link.

 

[67Dart273]

............... Some cams with different durations than stock can be a pain doing the bump method. If it's off just a little, it might not be on the heel of the cam and you get an inaccurate reading.

If you use the EOIC method, this can be used on ANY engine, accurately, from dead stock 223 Fords to 4 row radials.

Of course we would never want to argue with dangod, he freekin knows it all

 

[twofosho]

If you've got a "knock" coming from the "front" of the engine at idle, you might want to check the oil level. Wouldn't be the first slant to "knock" because it had been eons since anyone had added a "little" oil. These motors usually survive conditions and owners that would have stopped engines with bowties and blue ovals on their hoods dead in their tracks. You'd be amazed what oil on the dipstick does to "quiet down" a noisy slant.
I agree with the above posters about the engine running valve adjustment, .010 on the intake and .020 on the exhaust, engine warm and idling gets you there every time. Lay a shop rag over the distributor if you're worried about a little oil splash.
One particular valve loosening up every couple of days might mean a worn out rocker arm adjustor or it might mean you're loosing a cam lobe. Worn lobes don't give the smoothest idle, but even a completely round one probably won't kill a slant.

 

[Bulldozer]

so if a rocker is adjusted to tight on the valve , even by a few thousanths , it will run rough on that cylinder? and i will try the broomstick method to see if it is the fuel pump knocking or if it is fact a rod knocking.i just started hearing it today after i shut the ticking off and it only reared its ugly head after it warmed up. its sounds like you guys are getting good results with the engine running. i may give that a shot too as i still have a valve or two ticking that im sure wasnt adjusted correctly, of course it may be a worn rocker arm but we shall see. even though you guys dont all agree on methods i truly appreciate all the input....

 

[slantsixdan]

so if a rocker is adjusted to tight on the valve , even by a few thousanths , it will run rough on that cylinder?

It will roughen the idle, yes.

may be a worn rocker arm

Usually not. But that reminds me, yet another reason to do it running is that you can take a look and see if the top end is oiling properly. You should get a good ooze/dribble of oil out the tip of each rocker arm. If some or all of them aren't oiling, it means you'll want to remove, disassemble, and clean the rocker assembly—also covered in the previously-linked post. If the rear is oiling but the front is not, it's usually because the rocker shaft has been installed wrong way round and/or upside down. There's a small flat ground on one edge of one end of the shaft; this is to be installed top-front. In the mid-1970s, the shaft and the rearmost bolt were altered to prevent misassembly, but earlier pieces require a careful eye.

even though you guys dont all agree on methods

Well, different goals will tend to produce different advice. Those who have the goal of helping you learn to do the best possible valve adjustment on a slant-6 will tend to give certain kinds of advice. Those who have a goal of slagging other board members may tend to give contrary advice, which may not even be based on much of any actual slant-6 experience, because they have higher priorities than helping you achieve the best result on your slant-6. Take a careful look at the tones of voice and the amounts of slant-6 experience reflected in each answer you receive and use what you see to decide how much faith to put in each poster's advice.

 

[bruceo2011]

Listen to Dan, he knows of what he speaks. I just got done setting the valve lash on both my slantys. Takes longer to remove and reinstall the valve cover. Using a 1/4" drive ratchet and socket with FLAT feeler gauges, once you get your mojo working on the first one, the rest are a breeze. I do it at about idle speed, and it's smooth as glass. Valve cover suggestion - find a valve cover off of a mid 60's slant. It has cool ridges on top and vented breather openings for a push-in breather cap and a push-in pcv (the 90 degree metal ones) . Has all the provisions down the side for the wiring harness and to hold the heater hoses. Keeps everything clean, looks cool and it's all factory. Good Luck.