1983 hydraulic engine

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1930

1930

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This A.M I decided to try and turn the engine over thats sitting in my newly purchased truck, starter needed help, had not been worked in along time and was not doing what I needed it to do so I put another in it, engine was not frozen but very hard to turn over, I decided to pull all the plugs and the valve cover. ( mind you I have not even changed the oil yet ) Last time vehicle supposedly ran was approx 1996

Rocker shaft ect on # 1 cylinder a bit crusty, nothing hard core, mainly surface rust cause I can wipe away some of it with my finger but its still there.

Turned it back over with my [ame="http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=remote%2Bstarter"]remote starter[/ame].

Spun very easy with plugs out

Compression check is as follows. Mind you I am using a good screw in compression gauge, not the rubber tipped deal

#1 nuthin/notta, needle does not even budge

#2 same as above

#3 by the time I got to # 3 I got a VERY heavy stream of oil ( and fuel, forgot to disconnect that fuel line ) out of some places on the rocker shaft, not quite sure if I have oil at the # 1 cylinder yet though.

#3 showed 90, then went down to 60 then back up to 90......I stopped with this cylinder at this point, Im assuming that when it went back down to 60 thats when the valves was sticking open. AT this point a valve is stuck open, not sure if it is intake or exhaust, it is the one I am pointing too.

A this point it will not even close with the pressure of the valve spring trying to force it closed. .......After fiddling with it a few hours later ( tapping on the side of the valve spring lightly with a brass hammer it did snap shut.

#4 110 pds but again not right away, it would pump up and then leak down very quickly then go right back up and eventually stayed up to the given reading.

#5 140 pds went right to 140

#6 120 pds If memory serves me this valve fluctuated a bit up and down as well. Not certain. My memory is getting worst with age

I dont know whats up with cylinder # 1 and 2

I would guess that maybe these valves are stuck open just a bit, maybe there is crud under the valves that needs to be removed. I can see all of the valves open and close when I turn over the engine ( with the exception now of the valve that I am pointing to which is stuck open but maybe I just am not able to see that some of them are open just a tad.

What would you guys do? Would you bother to change the oil yet? Its black and nasty ( and old) , just dont want to piss away the money on an oil change for an engine that has broken rings or something else major thats why I decided to take the route I am taking.

Is it a sign when the valves stick like this that the valve guides are shot, seems to me that if a valve is able to hang up that chances are it means its cockeyed in the guide which of course prob. wouldnt be an ideal situation.

Just guessing, I am only trying to learn an so forgive my stupid questions.

BTW I wish that the brand new re-build slant in my truck built up oil pressure this quickly. That was a joke trying to get oil to the top end.
Thanks for any advice.

EDIT: Later in the afternoon I decided to pull the rocker shaft, let it sit in kerosine and soak, I cleaned up the head with my vacuum cleaner trying to get rid of some of that crustiness on the # 1 cylinders valvetrain before it ended up down in the oil pan.

Head valvetrain is fairly clean, no major buildup of gunk, VERY little buildup of anything on the cylinder head itself.

I squirted oil best I could inside valve spring hoping to get the oil down into the valve stem I was able to at one point get 30 pounds ( and it stayed there, no leak down ) on the #1 cylinder. Nothing was happening still though on the #2 cylinder.

Fooling with it further with more oil and I could not repeat getting any compression on the #1. Went back to reading zero on the cylinder.

Forcing air down the cylinder thru the spark plug hole on cylinders # 1 2,3 did not tell me much, I figured if there were a problem with any of the cylinders rings that I might be able to detect air coming from bottom end or out the carb if it were stuck valves.

I can dump 100 pounds of air down the cylinder very quickly but again I cannot tell where it is going. I was using a small portable air tank, maybe I need to fire up my big compressor and try that, put a piece of paper over the carb and look for some flutter, maybe disconnect the exhaust and do the same.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Continuing to squirt oil down the valve stem best I could
 

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I have (hopefully had) the same issue with my slant 6. If you look you can find some of my posts when I bought my 75 dart last fall. I had 2 cylinders that would not give good readings. But....I kept bending push rods. I bent 2 more within 65 miles. This car sat for quite a while. So I finally took the head in. The valve guides were so sticky from bad gas that they had a hard time cleaning the head. He had to tear it completely down and give it a good cleaning. He also told me to get the gas out the tank. Another issue that may be related is my carb is not functioning properly. That gets rebuilt and then we hope it is a go.
 
You should be able to hear air rushing out of the tail pipe it an exhaust valve is not seating, out of the carburetor if an intake valve is not seating or out of the valve cover area if the rings are bad. There will be NO mistaking it. Maybe you just didn't know what to listen for.
 
At this point, I would be working kerosene in around the guides, not trying oil. The gum in the guides is the most likely issue and it'll be hard to work out. I would not hesitate to use something more severe at this point, like even electric motor cleaner in small amounts in the guides (which will dissolve petroleum based gums like you would not believe...along with paint, etc.); there is not much to hurt except guide seals and they probably need to be replaced anyway, and you can squirt in oil/kero when they free up. Whatever goes in will/can be diluted.

Do you have a lever-type valve compression tool for a shaft type rocker engine? If so, I'd pull the springs off those valves and work them with cleaner by hand, with each piston at its TDC area. (Or use the rope in the cylinder trick.) It'll clean up a lot faster. I would not hesitate to do each cylinder one at a time, that way.

With the rust in the head area, there is a possibility that there is rust on the valve face and seat for any valve that was open and moist air reached. If the valves are free, that may or may not work out.

If you think the valves are freed, and the engine runs at all then change the oil and filter, warm it up, put in a cup of ATF and cup of Kero (homemade motor flush) and run for 15-20 minutes and then drain the oil and replace that and the filter again. Oil is cheap, relatively speaking....

Have you dumped/cleaned the fuel tank?

BTW, the oil on the rockers ought to be dribbling from a small hole in the upper end of each groove or slot on the top of the rocker. If you get this to run, it will be fairly obvious.
 
dartnabout said:
I have (hopefully had) the same issue with my slant 6. If you look you can find some of my posts when I bought my 75 dart last fall. I had 2 cylinders that would not give good readings. But....I kept bending push rods. I bent 2 more within 65 miles. This car sat for quite a while. So I finally took the head in. The valve guides were so sticky from bad gas that they had a hard time cleaning the head. He had to tear it completely down and give it a good cleaning. He also told me to get the gas out the tank. Another issue that may be related is my carb is not functioning properly. That gets rebuilt and then we hope it is a go.
Click to expand...
Yes I have already read your past posts and the trobles you had. I have another freshly re-built head that I can put on it but I am trying to not rush things and explore all my options.

I wouldnt attempt to run any fuel that is in the tank through the engine, at this point the line is disconnected and I planned to feed the engine fuel from a small plastic fuel tank that I have laying around.

The trucks not by any means a driver and my never be, just would like to see myself get it running.
 
RustyRatRod said:
You should be able to hear air rushing out of the tail pipe it an exhaust valve is not seating, out of the carburetor if an intake valve is not seating or out of the valve cover area if the rings are bad. There will be NO mistaking it. Maybe you just didn't know what to listen for.
Click to expand...
I am sure that is my problem, dont know what I am doing.

No tailpipe BTW, exhaust is rotten off some where under the truck
 
Just go back and read what I posted. This is really easy to determine. You have the tools (the compressed air). It's not difficult. You'll get it.
 
nm9stheham said:
At this point, I would be working kerosene in around the guides, not trying oil. The gum in the guides is the most likely issue and it'll be hard to work out. I would not hesitate to use something more severe at this point, like even electric motor cleaner in small amounts in the guides (which will dissolve petroleum based gums like you would not believe...along with paint, etc.); there is not much to hurt except guide seals and they probably need to be replaced anyway, and you can squirt in oil/kero when they free up. Whatever goes in will/can be diluted.

Do you have a lever-type valve compression tool for a shaft type rocker engine? If so, I'd pull the springs off those valves and work them with cleaner by hand, with each piston at its TDC area. (Or use the rope in the cylinder trick.) It'll clean up a lot faster. I would not hesitate to do each cylinder one at a time, that way.

With the rust in the head area, there is a possibility that there is rust on the valve face and seat for any valve that was open and moist air reached. If the valves are free, that may or may not work out.

If you think the valves are freed, and the engine runs at all then change the oil and filter, warm it up, put in a cup of ATF and cup of Kero (homemade motor flush) and run for 15-20 minutes and then drain the oil and replace that and the filter again. Oil is cheap, relatively speaking....

Have you dumped/cleaned the fuel tank?

BTW, the oil on the rockers ought to be dribbling from a small hole in the upper end of each groove or slot on the top of the rocker. If you get this to run, it will be fairly obvious.
Click to expand...
I do have the valve tool, this is an excellent idea that I will put to use, not sure what you mean by electric motor cleaner though.

I guess I may still end up pulling the head but Id like to try this first.

Thanks for the tips, will let you know how I make out, this is a weekend only deal for me but weekends coming up fast.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Just go back and read what I posted. This is really easy to determine. You have the tools (the compressed air). It's not difficult. You'll get it.
Click to expand...
Too be honest if you had to ask me where I think I heard the air coming from Id say it was bottom end but I can be a bit pessimistic at times.

Im going to fire up the big compressor ( over the weekend ) so I have a longer stretch of air and see what I can find out. Thanks
 
Electric motor cleaner is a spray cleaner used for.....electric motors! Google it...The stuff reeeealy cuts gum residue from gas like nothing else.
 
Napa does not carry the cyclo brand, whats your opinion on the CRC electromotive cleaner that Napa does carry?

I dont want to get into mail ordering cans of the Cyclo brand if at all possible. Id like to be able to play around with the valves this weekend.
 
CRC is what I have used for petroleum gums; can't remember if this is the exact stuff (am 300 miles from home) but the description reads right; the adjective 'aggressive' is used. Just get it on what you want and nothing else; it'll do a number on paint.
 
nm9stheham said:
CRC is what I have used for petroleum gums; can't remember if this is the exact stuff (am 300 miles from home) but the description reads right; the adjective 'aggressive' is used. Just get it on what you want and nothing else; it'll do a number on paint.
Click to expand...
Getting it on the paint of this truck would not be an issue if it did happen.
 
I have some questions I posted over on slant org site, Im hoping to get some work done on my truck engine this weekend and am hoping to have some of the answers before proceeding.

Maybe no-one will have the time over there to answer but maybe someone here will.

These questions are assuming I will have to pull the head, not sure that I will have to do that yet but Id like to know the answers to these ?s regardless.

Thanks in advance to the people that can answer these and any more comments.



1- When I loosen the head do I loosen the bolts starting center and then work outwards? I believe when I re-torque the head that is also the way it is done.

My understanding is that this is more important for an aluminum head and may not be as crucial with the iron head.

2- I have always been under the impression that it is a big no-no to re-use head bolts and yet doing a search on slant engines everyone seems to be doing it so maybe its OK for this low compression engine? ( As a sidenote I believe I have noticed that all slant head bolts are the same length/diam so I guess there is no concern as far as mixing them up. )

Would that still apply if I were to have the head shaved the 100thou or so that is recommended to bump the compression up to a decent rate ( evidently that may be approx 9.5 or so give or take.....I also plan to learn how to CC the head so that a more accurate ratio can be attained as per Dusters instructions I have saved from this site)

When I go to re-torque the head bolts should I put anything on the threads of the bolts....wont a grease coating change the torque value I want to achieve ?

3- Some say use a gasket coating....some not. Evidently it is a copper spray on coating. I have seen it and may have used it in the past on another engine. Is there an up/down to the gasket...do I spray one side or both?

4- When I remove the head and then pull the valves for cleaning I am going to guess that its not OK to mix them up, I am going to guess that even though they are constantly rotating during operation that they are still making a seat within the valve seat that is un-like another valve.

I would love to learn hands on how to lap in the valves, evidently it is done with with some prusion ( ? ) blue and the suction cup deal. I have read about this quite a few times over the years but have never attempted it.

Evidently the blue is put on the valve, inserted back into the guide and is spun with the suction cup deal until a uniform surface pattern is seen on the guide.

It is my understanding that it is a poor mans way of getting a better seal of the valves faces to their respective seats. For this engine it sounds like the perfect fix........Doesnt have to be perfect, just good enough.....for now.

When I initially go to cleaning the valves is it OK to use a standard wire brush that is on my benchgrinder or do I need to use the brass brush that I do not have yet?


I have I believe all of the specialty tools to measure the tolerances with the engine including the small inside measuring tools to measure the guides ect to check for wear..................Too be honest I would prefer to not have any machine work done to this engine, it is only something that Id like to see running again, I am using it as a tool to learn from. If the guides are worn and the valve seats ect as well that will be OK with me and I will leave it as is as long as things are not worn so badly that this thing absolutely will not run but Id like to know first hand ( hands on experience ) what is going on within the engine and how I could have corrected it if I had chose too.

5- What is the recommended procedure for inspecting the cylinders pistons once the head is off......if I had a broken ring would I definitely know it by scoring on the cylinder wall? Should I dump some oil into each cylinder and see if it stays there or time how fast it takes before it finds its way to the bottom end.

Just cause one ring is possibly broken prob. does not mean the other two are so not sure of a good way of checking all of this.

I am suggesting a broken ring only because I did fill up a small portable cylinder with air and dump it into the head, the air escaped VERY fast, within seconds......I did not feel it coming out the carb.....hard to tell if it came out the exhaust cause I had no help. I thought that I did however hear it coming up the lifter bores but that is only a guess, the portable cylinder I was using was maybe 3-5 gallons and it gave me no time to investigate thoroughly.

I plan to fire up the big compressor this weekend and stuff it with some strong continuous air before/assuming I pull the head.

I was told by the seller that his grandfather was told the mileage was accurate...... approx 60 some thousand......no dashboard any longer, no speedometer and no way of telling what it might have on it for mileage at this point but maybe its worth mentioning anyway.

At one point someone loved the truck very much....I would like to have met him, he took the time to paint it red, he had Mopar stickers all over it, he took it too many shows as can be evidenced by all the show stickers on it. My interpretation of the truck is that it was owned by someone that did not have alot of cash but loved his slant powered truck.

I have other questions about valve train inspection but they can wait

Hope all of this makes sense.
 
Just my opinions/way of doing things: YMMV----

I don't bother too much with head bolt removal sequence for plain jane stuff. If I do, I do the reverse of the tightening sequence so would start at the ends; not sure it makes any diff; I have removed AL racing haeds and not worried with no consequent issues.....

I havae reused hed bolts on all older engines forever with no issues. The newer engines have botls that are a lot thinner and are torque-to-yeild but I have even re-used them sometimes with no issues. The slant's bolts are the old heavy, thick ones.

Right - clean all the bolt holes in the head to remove oils and maybe a THIN coat of anti-sieze but not much. I have a used some ARP studs where you are supposed to use specific greases to get good high, consistent torques but I have never used that on a stock engine.

I torque the head bolts to 1/2 full torque on the 1st pass, to 3/4 on the 2nd, to full torque on the 3rd and them make a 4th pass to make sure they are right; all passes are in the proper sequence.

If it is a head gasket with a rubberry-plastic coating on both sides, I would not coat it at all. I have only used CopperKoat on metal gaskets.


Yes don't mix the valves and rockers and pushrods and I would keep even the springs and retainers in oder. An egg carton does a good job for sorting springs and retainers. I cut a large piece of cardboard and put small holes in it for the rods and valves and slots for the rockers.

Lapping valves is easy and you can do it with or without the blueing; the blueing is done as a check step to see how even and wide the seating contact is, not for the actual lapping. The actual lapping is done with a lapping paste on the valve face that finely grinds down the valve face and seat. Lapping does work! With your older engine and with the possible rust that may be on the valve face and seat, it would be worthwhile to do IMO IF the rust is very fine and very light. If any flakes of rust or heavy rust or pits are present on either, it is time for a real valve job.

I would not clean the valves with a power wire wheel...too rough. I have done it once but thought better of it later. Fine emery cloth or wet-or-dry is better IMO. A bit of crud on the valve ends into the cylinders is not a bid deal in a low CR engine anyway.

Loose guides will be pretty obvious as the valves will wobble around easily. The running issue will be erractic/rough idle and low throttle performance. If you can live with that, it'll run but be rough 'til the valves are fixed.

Broken rings? Yeah, you'll probably find some scoring/scraping in the cylinder. (But not all scrapes are from broken rings...a momentary piston seizure will scuff the cylinder wall, and crap in the cylinder can lightly score it.) If it is the top ring broken, it'll never seal well; the 2nd ring just helps to clean up some pressure and the 3rd is for oil and holds no pressure to speak of.

A liquid 'leak down' does not seem meaningful with oil, maybe just with a thin liquid like kerosene, and even then will be unpredictable depending how the 3 ring gaps are lined up on each cylinder. Air is the standard test 'liquid'.

Inspect the cylinder at the top of the ring travel for a 'step' at the top; this is called the 'ring ridge'. It is a sign of how much the bores have worn.

When you run the leak-down test with high pressure air with a cylinder at TDC, make sure you have a large breaker bar and socket on the crank snout bolt and hold onto it for dear life; these have been known to move suddenly and very fast and with a lot of force and have seriously injured people.

I'd be looking at the cylinders for how bad any rust might be. Beyond the pressure test, there is not much to do without the pistons out; you could have worn ring grooves or broken ring lands. Stuck rings are possible; I would use some kerosene down the rings to try to loosen them up for an engine like this where you don't care too much and and then clean as below. But if there is a lot of crap in the ring grooves, you won't get it out with any cleaner.

And a scuffed piston that has seized for a moment for lack of oil will be hard to tell without removal usless it is really bad. But it'll sure rattle bad when you run it and the cylinder will ususally be useless.

If the rust and other problems do not appear too bad, and you want to just see what it does, I would rub the cylinder walls with 220 grit wet-or-dry to clean them up )no more than needed), and them use ATF on paprer towels to clean them over and over 'til the paper towel comes out clean, moving the pistons up and down several times to try to push the crud and stuff to the top so you can wipe it out, and get things clean as far down as you can. Finally, oil them well with a light motor oil.
 
You're welcome! Hope it is all good info....sometimes it is hard to get everything in your head down on paper well.....and I sure don't know it all....
 
nm9stheham said:
Just my opinions/way of doing things: YMMV----

I don't bother too much with head bolt removal sequence for plain jane stuff. If I do, I do the reverse of the tightening sequence so would start at the ends; not sure it makes any diff; I have removed AL racing haeds and not worried with no consequent issues.....

I havae reused hed bolts on all older engines forever with no issues. The newer engines have botls that are a lot thinner and are torque-to-yeild but I have even re-used them sometimes with no issues. The slant's bolts are the old heavy, thick ones.

Right - clean all the bolt holes in the head to remove oils and maybe a THIN coat of anti-sieze but not much. I have a used some ARP studs where you are supposed to use specific greases to get good high, consistent torques but I have never used that on a stock engine.

I torque the head bolts to 1/2 full torque on the 1st pass, to 3/4 on the 2nd, to full torque on the 3rd and them make a 4th pass to make sure they are right; all passes are in the proper sequence.

If it is a head gasket with a rubberry-plastic coating on both sides, I would not coat it at all. I have only used CopperKoat on metal gaskets.


Yes don't mix the valves and rockers and pushrods and I would keep even the springs and retainers in oder. An egg carton does a good job for sorting springs and retainers. I cut a large piece of cardboard and put small holes in it for the rods and valves and slots for the rockers.

Lapping valves is easy and you can do it with or without the blueing; the blueing is done as a check step to see how even and wide the seating contact is, not for the actual lapping. The actual lapping is done with a lapping paste on the valve face that finely grinds down the valve face and seat. Lapping does work! With your older engine and with the possible rust that may be on the valve face and seat, it would be worthwhile to do IMO IF the rust is very fine and very light. If any flakes of rust or heavy rust or pits are present on either, it is time for a real valve job.

I would not clean the valves with a power wire wheel...too rough. I have done it once but thought better of it later. Fine emery cloth or wet-or-dry is better IMO. A bit of crud on the valve ends into the cylinders is not a bid deal in a low CR engine anyway.

Loose guides will be pretty obvious as the valves will wobble around easily. The running issue will be erractic/rough idle and low throttle performance. If you can live with that, it'll run but be rough 'til the valves are fixed.

Broken rings? Yeah, you'll probably find some scoring/scraping in the cylinder. (But not all scrapes are from broken rings...a momentary piston seizure will scuff the cylinder wall, and crap in the cylinder can lightly score it.) If it is the top ring broken, it'll never seal well; the 2nd ring just helps to clean up some pressure and the 3rd is for oil and holds no pressure to speak of.

A liquid 'leak down' does not seem meaningful with oil, maybe just with a thin liquid like kerosene, and even then will be unpredictable depending how the 3 ring gaps are lined up on each cylinder. Air is the standard test 'liquid'.

Inspect the cylinder at the top of the ring travel for a 'step' at the top; this is called the 'ring ridge'. It is a sign of how much the bores have worn.

When you run the leak-down test with high pressure air with a cylinder at TDC, make sure you have a large breaker bar and socket on the crank snout bolt and hold onto it for dear life; these have been known to move suddenly and very fast and with a lot of force and have seriously injured people.

I'd be looking at the cylinders for how bad any rust might be. Beyond the pressure test, there is not much to do without the pistons out; you could have worn ring grooves or broken ring lands. Stuck rings are possible; I would use some kerosene down the rings to try to loosen them up for an engine like this where you don't care too much and and then clean as below. But if there is a lot of crap in the ring grooves, you won't get it out with any cleaner.

And a scuffed piston that has seized for a moment for lack of oil will be hard to tell without removal usless it is really bad. But it'll sure rattle bad when you run it and the cylinder will ususally be useless.

If the rust and other problems do not appear too bad, and you want to just see what it does, I would rub the cylinder walls with 220 grit wet-or-dry to clean them up )no more than needed), and them use ATF on paprer towels to clean them over and over 'til the paper towel comes out clean, moving the pistons up and down several times to try to push the crud and stuff to the top so you can wipe it out, and get things clean as far down as you can. Finally, oil them well with a light motor oil.
Click to expand...
First what is YMMV----

Where can I get the lapping compound, have you had any luck with Napa? I will also need to get the suction tool.

You said ..........When you run the leak-down test with high pressure air with a cylinder at TDC,..............Is this the way a leak down test is too be performed, I did not know the piston was supposed to be at TDC?

You mentioned a crank snout bolt, I guess I will see more when I remove the rad assy but this slant set-up is not like the one in my truck, I cant seem to feel a large bolt on the end of the crank to place a wrench on. Ill have to check it out further.

Yes thanks again, all useful info.
 
Napa will have it. Ask for Permatex valve grinding compound. They should also have the tool with 2 suction cups (just a wood dowl with the cups on the ends)
Slant six, 99% of them that I have seen do not have a bolt on the end of the crank.
Piston at top dead center means that both valves are closed to do your leak down test. That will have to be done for each cylinder.
 
Darter6 said:
Napa will have it. Ask for Permatex valve grinding compound. They should also have the tool with 2 suction cups (just a wood dowl with the cups on the ends)
Slant six, 99% of them that I have seen do not have a bolt on the end of the crank.
Piston at top dead center means that both valves are closed to do your leak down test. That will have to be done for each cylinder.
Click to expand...
Cant get any compression in some of the cylinders, Im assuming its cause the valves are open a bit with crud. May be pulling the head today

I will ask for the permatex. EDIT: Just called Napa, they have the permatex but he says can no longer get the grease base, now its water base. What do you think?

So what do you or how do you turn the crank if no bolt?

Thanks

EDIT: Looking on-line I see that there are different grit compounds.....apparently the water base is next to useless so I may need to get on E-bay to see if I can get whats needed there.
 
And after some more thought...I kinda think the compression test at this point is unreliable. The reason is that this engine has not been run in a while and there can be any sort of stickiness in the rings or bits of rust aroudn the rings and the reing seal wil be lost with even a tiny partcle between the ring and wall.

So I think you are on the right track to pul the head; it'll make it easier to free the valves too.

Compression is in deed normally tested on each cylinder one at a time, with that cylinder's piston at TDC. That makes sure the vales are closed on that cylinder. YOu rotate then engine for each cylinder to make sure it is at TDC with it's valves closed. But you need to be holding the engine still at each position during the tests. Am trying to think of an alternate way to hold...I have pulled engine around with a fan belt before. Not sure if that is a good/safe place to hold this engine.

YMMV =>> Your Mileage May Vary =>> Your results with this ''it's worth what you paid for it' advice may vary!
 
Pulling the head will be your best bet. That way you will see and find stuck valves,burnt valves,bent valves,who knows?? also the condition of the cylinder walls.If you find any rust and or a stuck piston, chances are you will have a smoker if you don't rebuild. Not saying you have to rebuild. Hell the truck that I'm driving now I took a chance on .Used 318 water/rust in two cylinders.Cleaned up best I could went thru the heads, put in two used valves,lapped all valves, new seals,gaskets and away we go ! Smokes a bit on a pull when cold but clears up when it reaches opperating tempeture.Uses one quart of oil about 250 miles.. I can live with that.
I call it my High School rebuild.Been driving it for 3 years now every day.
I must say it's nice to see your dedication and willing to learn, wanting to work with you hands. Don't see it to often any more. Good for you !
 
nm9stheham said:
And after some more thought...I kinda think the compression test at this point is unreliable. The reason is that this engine has not been run in a while and there can be any sort of stickiness in the rings or bits of rust aroudn the rings and the reing seal wil be lost with even a tiny partcle between the ring and wall.

So I think you are on the right track to pul the head; it'll make it easier to free the valves too.

Compression is in deed normally tested on each cylinder one at a time, with that cylinder's piston at TDC. That makes sure the vales are closed on that cylinder. YOu rotate then engine for each cylinder to make sure it is at TDC with it's valves closed. But you need to be holding the engine still at each position during the tests. Am trying to think of an alternate way to hold...I have pulled engine around with a fan belt before. Not sure if that is a good/safe place to hold this engine.

YMMV =>> Your Mileage May Vary =>> Your results with this ''it's worth what you paid for it' advice may vary!
Click to expand...

Too be honest I am sorta looking forward/wanting to pull the head anyway, I want to learn/have hands on experience with making specific measurements that are needed to make modifications to these engines.

I would like to know how to test for compression, evidently I need to measure deck height ( never done that before ) and also need to CC chambers. ( never done that as well )

You said above ..........Compression is in deed normally tested on each cylinder one at a time, with that cylinder's piston at TDC...........

Did you mean to say a leak down test.

As far as I know a compression check is done with engine spinning over until highest reading on gauge is attained?

I do not think I am going to be able to pull this engine with fan or belt, there must be another way. I am out there now disassembling things further to see whats down there.
 
Darter6 said:
Pulling the head will be your best bet. That way you will see and find stuck valves,burnt valves,bent valves,who knows?? also the condition of the cylinder walls.If you find any rust and or a stuck piston, chances are you will have a smoker if you don't rebuild. Not saying you have to rebuild. Hell the truck that I'm driving now I took a chance on .Used 318 water/rust in two cylinders.Cleaned up best I could went thru the heads, put in two used valves,lapped all valves, new seals,gaskets and away we go ! Smokes a bit on a pull when cold but clears up when it reaches opperating tempeture.Uses one quart of oil about 250 miles I can live with that.
I call it my High School rebuild.Been driving it for 3 years now every day.
I must say it's nice to see your dedication and willing to learn, wanting to work with you hands. Don't see it to often any more. Good for you !
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Any schooling you can give me on lapping the valves would be appreciated. See my post above on the compound situation. Thanks
 
And...I had a hard time finding Head Bolts. Here is where I got them. HeadBolts.com Others here may have better sources.
 
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