225 charging problem

[Mattax]

Sorry that link does seem to be dead

Squareback vs round back alternator?

I rebuilt my 318 like 15 years ago and have put on 8k miles in that time. I replaced the alternator at the same time and recently the bearing went out on me. Seeing how alternators are relatively cheap I was just going to replace it. But when I started reading it looks like there is much against...

www.forabodiesonly.com

Also could be bought through his website.

Echlin Voltage Reglator VR32

Mechanical. See the coils Rusty was talking about? Yes, they also say it is electronic, bad listing

www.forabodiesonly.com

I dont recall his ebay name

Actually may still be available

regulator tech

edit ebay name might furygt

Mopar Voltage Regulator - Electronic Solid State with Correct Restoration Look 724469250010 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Mopar Voltage Regulator - Electronic Solid State with Correct Restoration Look at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Sorry wont be able to check that until the weekend

 

[shortmort37]

I bought this VR on Amazon and installed today. The ammeter is showing a strong charge deflection I didn’t see before! I think my problem is solved. Thanks to all for your help.

 

[Mattax]

needle 1/2 way to charge is 20 amps. Thats Ok for a minute or two. Five minutes is pushing it. 10 to 20 minutes and some conenction(s) are almost certainly getting hot and melting plastic insulators. True even with a '63 with its more solid firewall terminals for the main power.

See here for example that they too can fail.

Anyone Know What this Connector is Called?

The rectangular connector. It comes off the starter, through the firewall bulkhead. From there it connects to the back of the alternator gauge. Anyone know an exact name and where I could get one? I've gone to all my local auto parts stores the good and the usuals and nobody can come up with...

www.forabodiesonly.com

 

[67Dart273]

I bought this VR on Amazon and installed today. The ammeter is showing a strong charge deflection I didn’t see before! I think my problem is solved. Thanks to all for your help.

Put your voltmeter on the battery and find out what is going on

 

[Mattax]

^Exactly^ A charged battery should draw 20 amps or so recharging after start only for a minute or two. But if the battery is seeing voltage higher than normal, it will draw more current (overcharge). Do not use the alternator to recharge a low battery if you can avoid it.

 

[shortmort37]

^Exactly^ A charged battery should draw 20 amps or so recharging after start only for a minute or two. But if the battery is seeing voltage higher than normal, it will draw more current (overcharge). Do not use the alternator to recharge a low battery if you can avoid it.

Yeah, I had done some running around since I had replaced the battery; I'm sure I had run it down a bit. After replacing the regulator, I only ran the engine briefly to confirm that it was charging. I'll recharge the battery with a charger before driving it.

 

[shortmort37]

Maybe I spoke too soon…

I put a charger on the (new) battery overnight, and when I started it the next day, the gauge showed a slight positive deflection. So far, so good. I took it out for a spin - and turned on the headlights. Immediately, the needle went into the discharge zone, about a quarter of the way at a stop. It improved slightly while in motion, but still to the left of center.

Is this behavior to be expected? New battery, new VR, good bench test and in the car test for the alternator. Next steps?

 

[Mattax]

Maybe I spoke too soon…

I put a charger on the (new) battery overnight, and when I started it the next day, the gauge showed a slight positive deflection. So far, so good. I took it out for a spin - and turned on the headlights. Immediately, the needle went into the discharge zone, about a quarter of the way at a stop. It improved slightly while in motion, but still to the left of center.

Is this behavior to be expected? New battery, new VR, good bench test and in the car test for the alternator. Next steps?

I would suspect a bad winding or diode because
- the alternator's response to rpm is normal (can produce more power with more rpm)
- but its a fraction of what it should be able to produce, maybe 1/2 to 2/3.

Also could be resistance to flow so bad the higher current's can't squeeze through one of the feeds. Checking for voltage differences while current is flowing will help confirm either.

Send me a PM. Probably just easy and may be quicker to get together than to type back and forth. I have a clamp ammeter which will let us check alternator output ability.

 

[shortmort37]

Thanks to Matt, who made a house call, we diagnosed that the VR purchased through Amazon (from Taiwan) was defective. Back it went, and I purchased an American made replacement from FBO Ignition, per Matt’s recommendation. At the same time, I pulled a new field wire (with heat shrink tubing over the terminals) because I didn’t like the looks of the wire. Started her up - showing 10 amps charging at idle, with about 5 with the headlights on. I’ve yet to take it for a cruise, but what do you think - might I be out of the woods?

 

[67Dart273]

Thanks to Matt, who made a house call, we diagnosed that the VR purchased through Amazon (from Taiwan) was defective. Back it went, and I purchased an American made replacement from FBO Ignition, per Matt’s recommendation. At the same time, I pulled a new field wire (with heat shrink tubing over the terminals) because I didn’t like the looks of the wire. Started her up - showing 10 amps charging at idle, with about 5 with the headlights on. I’ve yet to take it for a cruise, but what do you think - might I be out of the woods?

I guess you don't bother to read. PUT A VOLTMETER on the battery and see what is going on

 

[Mattax]

Thanks to Matt, who made a house call, we diagnosed that the VR purchased through Amazon (from Taiwan) was defective. Back it went, and I purchased an American made replacement from FBO Ignition, per Matt’s recommendation. At the same time, I pulled a new field wire (with heat shrink tubing over the terminals) because I didn’t like the looks of the wire. Started her up - showing 10 amps charging at idle, with about 5 with the headlights on. I’ve yet to take it for a cruise, but what do you think - might I be out of the woods?

Two other potential issues we identified:
1. Field Current Draw Test of 6 amps (at 12 to 12.5 Volts)
Check your '63 shop manual but its probably supposed to be 2.5 amps.

Hunt down a correct an alternator with appropriate rotor.


2. Battery to mainsplice resistance (engine off, key off)
With head lights on, ammeter showing about 8 amps flowing;
0.04 Volt drop from battery positive to firewall connector &
0.4 Volt drop from battery positive to main splice.

Remove and clean all connectors from battery to and especially including firewall. Nice things about the '63 firewall feeds is they are held with a screw.
Retest. If there is still high voltage drop, then check and clean the inside connections if they are accessible. The ammeter connections are not easy to access, so I hate to recommend messing with them unless they need to be. If they are snug, look clean and no strain on them, I'd leave them alone. If they are loose, oxidized, or strained they must be corrected.


Engine running:
Bypassing the voltage regulator
At idle rpm, about 25 amps flowing to battery, and
1 Volt drop between the alternator output stud and the battery positive
and
0.6 Volt drop between the alternator and battery bulkhead terminals.
Also 0.4 Volts drop in the ignition circuit between the ballast resistor and the regulator.

0.6 V drop at 33 amps is not terrible loss but would not hurt to check and clean alternator output ring terminal at the alternator and the connection at the firewall.

.4 V drop with around 8.5 amps in the run circuit is not great. Cleaning and checking the J2 wire connections could only help. Checking and cleaning the connections atthe ignition swtich could not hurt. Changing to an alternator with only 2.5 amp field current instead of 6 amps will help.

As mentioned the parts store squeeze terminals are not that great. Better off with a factory type open barrel terminal that really clamps the conductor and seperately supports the insulation.


Started her up - showing 10 amps charging at idle, with about 5 with the headlights on.
So that's 10 amps going to the battery, about 6 amps to the field and probably 2.5 amps to the ignition coil. Total 18.5 amps at idle.
With headlights on about 5 amps to the battery, about 6 amps to the field, probably 2.5 amps to the ignition coil. Plus roughly 10 amps to the headlights. Total of 22.5 amps at idle rpm. That's OK. The drop from 10 to 5 amps to the battery may have been the alternator maxing out or just the battery's charging needs were going down as normal.
Either way no issue to speak of. I'd pursue better connections and an alternator with less field current draw.