2nd try? On the cheap friendly comp?

[rumblefish360]

Please enlighten me to how it makes a big block in an A body easier with headers.

I installed a B series engine in a '71 Duster without much can fair at all.
It is a 400/727 combo that slide right in with standard B body headers (Hedman Elite's) as per BBD.com and Schmaucher mounts and torque strap. Lokar cables move the throttle and trans kick down. A MP deep trans pan is also on the trans.

No fitment issues on the outside! Tight? Yes. Easy? I thought so. A buddy and I wacked it out in under an hours time.

How does the internal mod help a B 727 in a tight car?

 

[451Cuda]

Please enlighten me to how it makes a big block in an A body easier with headers.

I installed a B series engine in a '71 Duster without much can fair at all.
It is a 400/727 combo that slide right in with standard B body headers (Hedman Elite's) as per BBD.com and Schmaucher mounts and torque strap. Lokar cables move the throttle and trans kick down. A MP deep trans pan is also on the trans.

No fitment issues on the outside! Tight? Yes. Easy? I thought so. A buddy and I wacked it out in under an hours time.

How does the internal mod help a B 727 in a tight car?

I have 2" CPPA underchassis headers, which leave zero room for a kickdown.

How does a $200 internal trans mod move the build so far from budget friendly that it's not allowed, when it's ok to spend almost $3k on fiberglass?

 

[rumblefish360]

Your list of fiberglass parts. I gave a thumbs up to there use. Purchasing them new at retail is your choice. I agree it is not a cheap price BUT purchasing them used can be and going with all possible parts is a unlikely move. A few simple parts could all ready be on someone's car. Like a set of bumpers and a hood.

Not allowing fiberglass parts would disqualify some people that all ready have them on there car. While no one would ever know, this is being done with the honor system and those that have it would remove them selfs from the fun.

I want as many people to join in on the fun as possible while keeping it simple, cheap, as most people (first timers included) would do.

(The above reply was being typed before I seen your above reply. To answer the above reply, read below.

Your 2 inch ccpa headers leave zero room for a kick down? I betcha I get lokar cables in and on there. I'll go down the block and check out my buddies RB '69 Cuda for a look and check.

Your figure of $3000 on fiberglass parts is extreme and baseless fodder
>
If you really want to go that route, I'm just going to stop replying to your replies as there just educated childish replies of stupidity designed to trouble me via splitting hairs etc...

Stop acting like a stupid child with to much information and act like an adult. If possible.

 

[318willrun]

I have 2" CPPA underchassis headers, which leave zero room for a kickdown.

How does a $200 internal trans mod move the build so far from budget friendly that it's not allowed, when it's ok to spend almost $3k on fiberglass?

If you spend just 3k on fiberglass, you have no chance of being competitive in this race. What did your cuda and drive train cost?? And what would the cost be if you then added 3k for fiberglass?????? 5-8 thousand dollar cars, in my opinion, no matter the E.T., will be a looser for sure. I get the feeling here a 1700 dollar 14.80 car will be more honorable than a 11 second 7 thousand dollar car. I'm going to try personally to aim at the poor high school kid that works part time. I know that when I was a teen, I loved cars and performance. Only, mowing cemetaries in the summer and working at an antique store in the winter, Big Block Cuda's with 3k dollars worth of fiberglass was a dream, not a reality.

 

[rumblefish360]

318willrun, this under his screen name ---> "Grand Instigator"

That may be what is arriving.....

"I get the feeling here a 1700 dollar 14.80 car will be more honorable"

I agree with this! Seriously, if anybody thinks they can do better, by all means possible....(Cheaply of course! LOL!)
go for it! I really don't think anybody is going to be burning down the clock tower with blazing speeds. But that is where the fun and challenge is.

Next year, we'll up the anti on parts allowable. After all, some of our newbies may have a very good running start from this "Show me grass roots effort" fun. Then we could get 451 to do a "How to" thread on porting heads on a expert level for the ..... novice!

 

[RustyRatRod]

The "why not" for the manual valve body has been covered more than thoroughly. I say we simply move on.

 

[451Cuda]

Your list of fiberglass parts. I gave a thumbs up to there use. Purchasing them new at retail is your choice. I agree it is not a cheap price BUT purchasing them used can be and going with all possible parts is a unlikely move. A few simple parts could all ready be on someone's car. Like a set of bumpers and a hood.

Not allowing fiberglass parts would disqualify some people that all ready have them on there car. While no one would ever know, this is being done with the honor system and those that have it would remove them selfs from the fun.

I want as many people to join in on the fun as possible while keeping it simple, cheap, as most people (first timers included) would do.

(The above reply was being typed before I seen your above reply. To answer the above reply, read below.

Your 2 inch ccpa headers leave zero room for a kick down? I betcha I get lokar cables in and on there. I'll go down the block and check out my buddies RB '69 Cuda for a look and check.

Your figure of $3000 on fiberglass parts is extreme and baseless fodder
>
If you really want to go that route, I'm just going to stop replying to your replies as there just educated childish replies of stupidity designed to trouble me via splitting hairs etc...

Stop acting like a stupid child with to much information and act like an adult. If possible.

If you can show how a kickdown can be installed on a 440 in an A-body with 2" cppa headers, I'll be impressed. When I put the manual valve body on my '67 Barracuda in 1989, either I wasn't aware of the Lokar cables or they didn't exist. A valve body was the best solution at that time, and really pretty cheap and easy to do.

The figure for 3k was taken directly from the website of a popular supplier of fiberglass parts for Mopars, which I linked. It is not "baseless fodder". I provided that to show that the rules allow for one modification which can become quite costly, while another mod (porting your own stock iron heads) which is extremely cheap and effective is not allowed.

I'm replying with valid points, and you're avoiding those points and calling me names. So who's being the adult here?

If you spend just 3k on fiberglass, you have no chance of being competitive in this race. What did your cuda and drive train cost?? And what would the cost be if you then added 3k for fiberglass?????? 5-8 thousand dollar cars, in my opinion, no matter the E.T., will be a looser for sure. I get the feeling here a 1700 dollar 14.80 car will be more honorable than a 11 second 7 thousand dollar car. I'm going to try personally to aim at the poor high school kid that works part time. I know that when I was a teen, I loved cars and performance. Only, mowing cemetaries in the summer and working at an antique store in the winter, Big Block Cuda's with 3k dollars worth of fiberglass was a dream, not a reality.

Those figures were given to make a point, that one very expensive mod is totally allowed, and another very inexpensive mod is not...in this "contest" of budget building.

318willrun, this under his screen name ---> "Grand Instigator"

That may be what is arriving.....

The title was a joke from the old chat room regarding a problem with a certain past member who is no longer active. I can certainly remove it if it causes overly sensitive types to get their panties in a wad. Shall I?

 

[rumblefish360]

Naaaa, keep the title! I like it!

Spending 3K on fiberglass parts wouldn't fit into cheap now would it? So why would you do that and only pick up a fraction on the E.T. Clock? Or can you pick up 2 or 3 seconds with, oh, let's say we have a 318 Duster from '74 w/ a 904 & a 3.21's?

I guess your just going to beat this one to death!!!!

We're done. Thanks for making the point.

 

[318willrun]

451Cuda "Those figures were given to make a point, that one very expensive mod is totally allowed, and another very inexpensive mod is not...in this "contest" of budget building."



Your point is off point because "CHEAP" & "SIMPLE" may trump E.T. Nobody is spending 3k on fiberglass with interest in this race. Nobody is going to applaud a 6k dollar car in this race. As I stated before, this is to show that ANYBODY can enjoy our hobby! You don't have to have a stroker in a '68 GTX and a banker for a daddy to be a part of it! We welcome super six's in 4 door Volare's! Or 318's in a 4 door Fury! CHEAP! SIMPLE! FUN!

 

[rumblefish360]

No worries 318willrun, I said it before and I'll say it again, it's all under his screen name.
He says its a joke from another place but I think "Grand Insigator" is exactly what he is.
He is acting like a stupid child (and then he thinks I called him a "name" LOL, waaaaa!!!!)

He isn't even joining in on this, just busting balls and crying a river like a female dog in heat. Just because he can. Big man is flexing is Internet muscles and tounge.

 

[451Cuda]

No worries 318willrun, I said it before and I'll say it again, it's all under his screen name.
He says its a joke from another place but I think "Grand Insigator" is exactly what he is.
He is acting like a stupid child (and then he thinks I called him a "name" LOL, waaaaa!!!!)

He isn't even joining in on this, just busting balls and crying a river like a female dog in heat. Just because he can. Big man is flexing is Internet muscles and tounge.

I was actually considering it, but changed my mind after reading the rules more thoroughly.

And the to set the record straight for a third time, I was merely showing the prices of fiberglass and comparing it to a very cheap and effective mod (home porting with templates) that is an easy way for a newbie to gain some power with stock heads. I was not suggesting that someone do only that and expect great results - those were your words, not mine.

In an earlier post you cracked a joke that I should show expert level porting to the newbies....well, I never said I was an expert - again, those are your words, not mine. I've done minor bowl blending and used the templates. The MP templates take the guess work out of porting stock bb mopar heads, and many people (even newbies) have been doing that with great results for many years. An electric die grinder is cheap and works fine, and many people new to the car hobby actually go out and gasp buy an air compressor (I bought my first one at age 15 with paper route money). But for some reason you seem to think that mod is out of reach to the typical newbie in the mopar community, and I can't figure out why - maybe you failed at it or were always too afraid to try? Who knows?

Regarding the name calling....I'm not upset in the least bit, it just shows your low level of maturity and your lack of composure under scrutiny. This tactic is called ad hominem, and is used in place of a valid counter point. If I've confused you with that, read up on it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem, or here: http://www.txstate.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/Ad-Hominem.html. Enough on that subject...continue your attempts to insult me if you wish, but just know in my eyes it only makes you the fool.

Now as a final message...I actually like the fact that you're attempting to create a friendly little competition to help newbies on a tight budget get more out of their cars - I remember those days very well and the help I received from veterans in the hobby. I just think certain aspects of the ruleset are too restrictive for the wrong reason. Good Luck.

 

[318willrun]

^^^^^^^^^I think you've overlooked the fact that it was stated a "round 2" would be in the future, where "porting heads, manual valve bodies, etc. etc." would be invited. This will be a more advanced, more skill, more money race. Perhaps it will be more to your liking. I personally like this race because money is not an eliminator, and ugly is welcome. It will be awesome to see what all shows up at this race. No "clicks" here!!! I think the interest, laughs and fun will be awesome, with each cheering for the other!

P.S. I'm thinking on entering the most undesired vehicle, with a 100% guarantee of not to get the low E.T. LOL!!! Still all the same, it will be very cheap (perhaps the lowest total cost vehicle to enter??), and I will make a few improvements It's a mopar, it's RWD, it's iron. See why this race is so unique??

 

[451Cuda]

^^^^^^^^^I think you've overlooked the fact that it was stated a "round 2" would be in the future, where "porting heads, manual valve bodies, etc. etc." would be invited. This will be a more advanced, more skill, more money race. Perhaps it will be more to your liking. I personally like this race because money is not an eliminator, and ugly is welcome. It will be awesome to see what all shows up at this race. No "clicks" here!!! I think the interest, laughs and fun will be awesome, with each cheering for the other!

I must have missed that, but anyway that's good to know and I may be a player in that phase.

PS My opinion was based on this summary of the rules: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970696483&postcount=77 which didn't mention that there would be a round 2 with more mods allowed. Maybe add that to the introduction?

 

[540Valiant]

I must have missed that, but anyway that's good to know and I may be a player in that phase.

PS My opinion was based on this summary of the rules: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showpost.php?p=1970696483&postcount=77 which didn't mention that there would be a round 2 with more mods allowed. Maybe add that to the introduction?

Rumble was very patient with you! Not being sarcastic! But, you should read the entire thread, before commenting. The manual valvebody thing was discussed in depth, as was the head porting! Points were made and a good decision was made! Done! And, what I like to call the stage 2 phase has also been mentioned several times! It is just a hint of things to come. This whole thing should be seen through the eyes of the kid delivering pizza, with grease under his fingers, stepping up from lawnmower engines to cars! Keep it simple! The days when a 14 second ride made ones hands shake!
We are not trying to show off Pro building skills (yet) or start a new Nhra class! Just having fun on the cheap.

 

[rumblefish360]

318willrun, 540valiant, do not be bothered by the crying baby. He is just doing what he thinks is his job.

Mucking up the thread.
Trying to turn the thread into a baby screaming pissing match
Proving to the world he has a big (key board) dick

The title under his name is "Grand Insitgator"
He is trying to prove it and will not quit under any pressure, reasoning etc...

He has and will continue to twist the words within this thread
He will continue to lie
He will continue to poke and prod
He will continue to show how much of a jerk he can be even though all who read the thread through can see he is just being the very thing he tries to blow off as nothing.

Who is 451cuda?

Well, he is the "GRAND INSTIGATOR!!!!"

Watch home as he carries on bally-whoing his whinny post of complaints and mud throwing antics! See him cry a river of foul and tears! He will go as far as he can, till death of need be. With fury he types away at the key board! Or until the powers that be closed the thread and the fun competition gets thrown into a dizzing spin and has such a hard time taking of, it folds and never happens.

Which is probably he double secret goal. To screw everything up until total and complete ruin!

The (cough cough) man (child) should be ignored by all.
Do not reply to 451cuda. Because if you do, you just as fuel to the fire
Remember, he is not even joining in on this fun idea.

 

[451Cuda]

Please point out where I was "mucking up the thread" or "Trying to turn the thread into a baby screaming pissing match". All I've seen is you getting pissy and resorting to insults when I ask valid questions about the rules.

 

[rumblefish360]

And the "Grand Insitigator" ramble's on... & on...

Off to twist words again and continue the show...

See kids! What did I tell ya?

 

[AlV]

I Beleve the disconnect is that an interested participant should read through this whole thread before or after reading the rules.

If one doesn't read the thread they may unknowingly reiterate a discussion that has already been finalized.

Maybe a note in the rules suggesting folks read through this thread makes sense?

What do you think Rob?

 

[waggin]

ok here is the rules, if your not actually gonna be in the race, don't be all up in the cake making any comments etc. if yall can't git along I can close or deleat the thread, from this point on if I have to come look I will start handing down infractions or whatever I need to do to stop the **** storm...fair enough?
MODERATOR

 

[rumblefish360]

AIV, below is your answer as well as an address to the readers who are, who want to and are thinking about joining in. It is not a rant, but just my thoughts and what I am trying to put into action.

I think if you didn't read the rules to start with, it would be much like not reading the instructions to something you have little idea about. If you screw up, it is your fault. But the good news is, the instructions are close by!

I think that after reading the basic rules set up at the start and the small changes made later on that we're put into a PDF as another member did to help out through his own accord and the various in puts from other members to help adjust the rules to fit into the basic idea of this thread, I have to say;

Thank you to all that have posted and joined the fun run in helping this thread grow, helping all the new guys with there endeavor to make there machines a stronger performer.

If anybody has any questions, I'll try my best to answer the question.

However, repeating myself multiple times and then multiple times to one member in trying to explain the reasoning of the way this being done over and over only to fail to get the thought across leaves me baffled.

AIV, is there a rule in the list that you do not understand or maybe add to or subtract or modify? I Ask because the set up is not in stone and subject to new ideas. The only guide line I use to adjust anything I wrote down is;

1; "Can a brand new guy do this and succeed with ease or is it an easy and possibly a costly item to screw up?"

2; "The idea of the build is a repeatable build for the novice for there ride while retaining street useage and driveability so the car is still enjoyable to drive. As a daily driver could and should be."

Of course the 2 above statements have a lot of wriggle room to them since one persons abilty and knowledge can be vastly different than another's.

Example;

Manual valve bodies. There an item that is not exactly daily driver status but easy and cheap to do. It is a catch 22. I think I would frown spin there use but I do think I did not say it is a no go. Again, *I think I said that.*
If your willing to live with that on your daily driver, OK, that is on you.
In general, how about the masses?

Example 2; Home ported heads

While anyone can take a die grinder to there head, the improvement is only proven on a air bench or better times at the track. This not to say the job was good or will be good after you go to a different or larger cam.

A step further would be like, oh let's say MRL or OU812 enter the fun. They happen to have a excellent stock low mileage engine. (Just sayin, anybody can come across this right?)
They take the engine home, use there *** year experiance and work the head over to get it to flow like a house on fire.

Is this something a new guy can do and is it really keeping the play ground level?

Now in order for those that have never ported a head, own a die grinder etc...
For those people to equal there rides potential they would have to spend, how much?

I know the thread is getting long and it maybe a bit unclear.
I'm just trying to keep it simple and easy folks.

If anybody has any input or questions (except 451cuda)
Just ask.

 

[rumblefish360]

Sorry for the mis spellings, it is a bit early and I am pressed for time.

 

[318willrun]

ok here is the rules, if your not actually gonna be in the race, don't be all up in the cake making any comments etc. if yall can't git along I can close or deleat the thread, from this point on if I have to come look I will start handing down infractions or whatever I need to do to stop the **** storm...fair enough?
MODERATOR

Very true, if your not in the race, it shouldn't matter to ya. But Waggin, for the most part it's been ok. I've seen threads with a lot more "pok'n" and "fight'n" without threats of shutting it down. People will work it out. Nothing here hurting the integrity of FABO. I don't mind explaining to people that have questions because they didn't read 6 pages of a thread. I'm just a participant, not the fonder. After all, some use FABO for a truck stop conversation (truckers love to argue, and they both enjoy it!) ...... please don't be too quick to pull the plug on this one. Can you help us, and get a sticky thread so people can have a centralized place to post and view entries? Other than that, you will have personal threads all over the place, and it will be hard follow.

 

[451Cuda]

I apologize for not reading the entire discussion before chiming in, that was my mistake. I assumed that the list of the rules that was linked on page 5 would have covered everything. If it had mentioned that this is a "phase 1", and more mods are allowed in a later phase, I probably wouldn't have questioned any of them.

I'm actually interested in participating in something like this, because I just bought a new project a couple weeks ago, and it will have a pretty basic and near-stock configuration at first so I can drive it this summer. I'll just watch, and if this makes it through the first iteration without petering out, I'll hop in and play during phase 2 when more mods are allowed.

A personal note to Rumblefish360: Dude you need to relax. If you can't handle criticism with composure and a level head, perhaps avoid taking the lead on things like this?

To everyone else: :burnout:

 

[waggin]

not to worry, just keep getting messages about the thread, I don't want to shut it down just a little reminder to play fair............. wagg's

Very true, if your not in the race, it shouldn't matter to ya. But Waggin, for the most part it's been ok. I've seen threads with a lot more "pok'n" and "fight'n" without threats of shutting it down. People will work it out. Nothing here hurting the integrity of FABO. I don't mind explaining to people that have questions because they didn't read 6 pages of a thread. I'm just a participant, not the fonder. After all, some use FABO for a truck stop conversation (truckers love to argue, and they both enjoy it!) ...... please don't be too quick to pull the plug on this one. Can you help us, and get a sticky thread so people can have a centralized place to post and view entries? Other than that, you will have personal threads all over the place, and it will be hard follow.

 

[AlV]

I think that after reading the basic rules set up at the start and the small changes made later on that we're put into a PDF as another member did to help out through his own accord and the various in puts from other members to help adjust the rules to fit into the basic idea of this thread, I have to say;

Hey Rob, It's me AlV they guy I think your talking about up there ^^^ lol

AIV, is there a rule in the list that you do not understand or maybe add to or subtract or modify?

Nope, I understand the rules I'm not not participating as a racer, My part in this is to support you and your idea. For instance helping format the rules to help make it easier to read and including the racers list, etc all those changes were approved by you. I will not add, or remove anything on my own because this is your thing.

My last suggestion in post 143 was to add a line to the Rules stating that folks read through the whole thread first before posting questions. The idea of that suggestion is to make it clear for participants so they are informed and you don't have to keep repeating yourself (I understand how frustrating that can be).

I don't mind helping out and my suggestions are administrative improvements to help provide clarity, not technical regarding the racers requirements.

My goal is to help you and provide support, but if you think that my contribution is causing confusion I would not be offended if you ask me to back off. It's all good.