318 budget build

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Slantsix64

Slantsix64

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Since I'm a cheap ***, this is were I'm at. I bought a 1989 318 roller motor, only had 90xxx miles on it. It was out of a park ranger truck. All I'm going to do is a new timing chain, cam regrind, and oil pump/pickup and pan. I am trying to get 14-15 around town/ 220hp and lots of torque. Like my slant six I'm trying to o balance H.P and Economy.


Camshaft specs are 260/264 .437/.453 110LSA Oregon Cams grind 1006. Also adding a melling double roller timing chain.

Compression ratio, with the piston only .040 in the hole, and 64 cc heads flat top pistons I'll be at a nice 9:1:1 using fel pro .039 head gaskets.

Carbueration edelbrock 600cfm on a LB4d intake.

Other modifications already are fan clutch, mopar Ecu box. Also previous owner had ported out the head after getting a valve job on it! (302heads)
Exhaust has the magnum passenger and 73 340 exhaust manifolds to a dual to the bumper! Cheap thrush glass pack from work lol.

Car is a 1967 barracuda a904 with a shift kit from trans go, gears are 3.55(I don't do much freeway driving so the lower gear will help the fish move quicker off the line with out stomping the pedal). Trying to get a daily driver with a kick lol.

Motor cost 200.00
Oil pump 55.79
Oil pump pick up screen 18.49
Timing chain 35.79
Timing cover gasket 10.90
Paint 14.29

I'm at $335.26
 
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I'll post up the price of the cam shaft regrind as well once I get find out total with shipping. And post some pictures too. Any one interested in the roller motor throttle body etc part I took off hit me up everything was working.
 
Slantsix64 said:
I'll post up the price of the cam shaft regrind as well once I get find out total with shipping. And post some pictures too. Any one interested in the roller motor throttle body etc part I took off hit me up everything was working.
Click to expand...

IMG_20180925_224546.jpg

Plus shipping..,
 
Slantsix64 said:
Since I'm a cheap ***, this is were I'm at. I bought a 1989 318 roller motor, only had 90xxx miles on it. It was out of a park ranger truck. All I'm going to do is a new timing chain, cam regrind, and oil pump/pickup and pan. I am trying to get 14-15 around town/ 220hp and lots of torque. Like my slant six I'm trying to o balance H.P and Economy.


Camshaft specs are 260/264 .437/.453 110LSA Oregon Cams grind 1006. Also adding a melling double roller timing chain.

Compression ratio, with the piston only .040 in the hole, and 64 cc heads flat top pistons I'll be at a nice 9:1:1 using fel pro .039 head gaskets.

Carbueration edelbrock 600cfm on a LB4d intake.

Other modifications already are fan clutch, mopar Ecu box. Also previous owner had ported out the head after getting a valve job on it! (302heads)

Car is a 1967 barracuda a904 with a shift kit from trans go, gears are 3.55(I don't do much freeway driving so the lower gear will help the fish move quicker off the line with out stomping the pedal). Trying to get a daily driver with a kick lol.

Motor cost 200.00
Oil pump 55.79
Oil pump pick up screen 18.49
Timing chain 35.79
Timing cover gasket 10.90
Paint 14.29

I'm at $335.26
Click to expand...
how much for the intake and carb? Sounds like a nice build.
 
What's up 318willrun, I'm reusing them from the previous motor, so I didn't add that to the cost, but I think I paid 200 for the carb and 200 for the intake I remember it wasn't cheap lol sandwiches for two weeks straight after that purchase. Lol
 
Use 0.028 head gaskets and advance cam 4 degrees. Take a closer look at the heads and the port job that was done, I would not trust pervious owners work.
Do a backyard valve job (lapping compound) when the heads are apart. These
all are very low $$$.
 
Looks like a hell of a budget build so far! Good job!
 
66jim said:
Use 0.028 head gaskets and advance cam 4 degrees. Take a closer look at the heads and the port job that was done, I would not trust pervious owners work.
Do a backyard valve job (lapping compound) when the heads are apart. These
all are very low $$$.
Click to expand...
Yes A/jforms has also mentioned advancing the cam 4 degrees, I will for look into that
 
Are you saying the advertised compression ratio of 9.2:1 with factory pistons and 302 heads is pretty close to what you measured/calculated out to 9.1:1?

That's good to know.
 
Slantsix64 said:
What's up 318willrun, I'm reusing them from the previous motor, so I didn't add that to the cost, but I think I paid 200 for the carb and 200 for the intake I remember it wasn't cheap lol sandwiches for two weeks straight after that purchase. Lol
Click to expand...
Cool. I just like total cost. You know, those that say they built a 500 hp 360 for 500 bucks... LOL. "paid 300 for the motor and 130 for pistons, 70 for gaskets. Well, I pulled the W2's and intake off the shelf, and that roller cam, rockers, etc... but I only have 500 bucks into it..." LOL
 
YY1 said:
Are you saying the advertised compression ratio of 9.2:1 with factory pistons and 302 heads is pretty close to what you measured/calculated out to 9.1:1?

That's good to know.
Click to expand...
Even if the the pistons are .040" in the hole, it is 8.7 with those head gaskets and head chamber volume. And the .040" in the hole is not normal.. So I think this is 'optimistic' on the SCR; , mid-8's at best is more like it. I'd put in the .028" thick head gaskets if you can but not a deal killer.
 
For mileage and torque, I woulda gone with a 112 or 114 LSA. But that is 'water under the bridge' now. Degree the cam for sure.... you specs listing does not say if the cam has any ground-in advance or not.... OK, just looked it up: ICL is 108 so only 2 degrees of ground-in advance. Yes, I'd want to put it in at around 104-ish, if you are emphasizing torque/mileage.

Pretty slow ramp cam for a roller... 57 degrees of difference between the advertised and .050" lift duration numbers (203 vs 260). Does not take advantage of the roller.. but it will last forever! The regrind cams profiles there are slow ramps...that may just be the nature of the re-grinds.
Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Specifications
 
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nm9stheham said:
Even if the the pistons are .040" in the hole, it is 8.7 with those head gaskets and head chamber volume. And the .040" in the hole is not normal.. So I think this is 'optimistic' on the SCR; , mid-8's at best is more like it. I'd put in the .028" thick head gaskets if you can but not a deal killer.
Click to expand...
Yup .040 in the hole flat tops I have already took apart to pairs of stock heads cc d them both came at 64cc both motors were 0.040 in the hole. One motor was a 90 and the other 89. Roller motors had taller pistons.

IMG_0783.PNG
 
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YY1 said:
Are you saying the advertised compression ratio of 9.2:1 with factory pistons and 302 heads is pretty close to what you measured/calculated out to 9.1:1?

That's good to know.
Click to expand...
Yup that was a deal breaker for me, it actually comes out to 9:18:1 pretty damn close. You can easily get 10: Milling the heads .045 down to 58ccs
 
nm9stheham said:
For mileage and torque, I woulda gone with a 112 or 114 LSA. But that is 'water under the bridge' now. Degree the cam for sure.... you specs listing does not say if the cam has any ground-in advance or not.... OK, just looked it up: ICL is 108 so only 2 degrees of ground-in advance. Yes, I'd want to put it in at around 104-ish, if you are emphasizing torque/mileage.

Pretty slow ramp cam for a roller... 57 degrees of difference between the advertised and .050" lift duration numbers (203 vs 260). Does not take advantage of the roller.. but it will last forever! The regrind cams profiles there are slow ramps...that may just be the nature of the re-grinds.
Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Specifications
Click to expand...
So should I be asking for more ramps? I haven't sent the camshaft out yet. So for sure the cam will be getting 4 degrees advance, now I got to figure out how to do that and I'll be set!
 
318willrun said:
Cool. I just like total cost. You know, those that say they built a 500 hp 360 for 500 bucks... LOL. "paid 300 for the motor and 130 for pistons, 70 for gaskets. Well, I pulled the W2's and intake off the shelf, and that roller cam, rockers, etc... but I only have 500 bucks into it..." LOL
Click to expand...
Ahaha yeah I guess it make you feel better cause your reusing lol
 
Slantsix64 said:
Ahaha yeah I guess it make you feel better cause your reusing lol
Click to expand...
yeah, know sense in spending if it's sitting on the shelf! In fact, I usually build around what's on the shelf so I don't have to spend my two nickels... LOL
 
66jim said:
Use 0.028 head gaskets and advance cam 4 degrees. Take a closer look at the heads and the port job that was done, I would not trust pervious owners work.
Do a backyard valve job (lapping compound) when the heads are apart. These
all are very low $$$.
Click to expand...
closed chamber heads; plus
.028 gaskets, plus pistons .040 in the hole makes a Q of .068; smack dab in the middle of the no-go zone
Do you think this will be OK with OP's stated 9.18Scr and the
Oregon 1006 ;260/264/110+2/ cam? nice cam btw for non LA heads; with42* overlap,works better with headers

Ima thinking

Static compression ratio of 9.18:1.
Ica of 58*
Effective stroke is 2.70 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.66:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is ........................ 153.17 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is ......................... 119
 
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AJ you saying a .040 gasket would do better for him? I know ideally Quench about
.040, whats a CHEAP option? .028 Gasket is closer to factory installed steel shim
which gave about 9:1.
 
Slantsix64 said:
Yup .040 in the hole flat tops I have already took apart to pairs of stock heads cc d them both came at 64cc both motors were 0.040 in the hole. One motor was a 90 and the other 89. Roller motors had taller pistons.

View attachment 1715343334
Click to expand...
Thank you... indeed good to know. The early 318's were even higher. I put in 4 cc's for small eyebrows.... so yours have none? Gotta keep modest on the lift if no eyebrows.... which your reground cam does.
 
Slantsix64 said:
So should I be asking for more ramps? I haven't sent the camshaft out yet. So for sure the cam will be getting 4 degrees advance, now I got to figure out how to do that and I'll be set!
Click to expand...
I don't know what Oregon can do in that department..... it just makes for more potential for keeping your DCR up to keep up the low RPM torque. Buuuut, with quicker ramps, you have to deal with stiffer valve springs, especially with the heavier lifters. So for cheap, then maybe you have what you want. See how it does for high revs to see if you need better valve springs.

The cam may be ground with the advance you want.... really what you are setting is the ICL. (LSA minus ICL is the value of your cam advance.) If Oregon does not do that, then just use a timing set with multiple keyways. And again, torque/mileage cams have 112 to 114 LSA's and shorter durations. The one in my 351C was 114 LSA, 254/264 advertised, and 190/200 .050" duration. (Sloooow ramps too!) 18-19 mpg on the interstate with 3.08 rear gear so your 14-15 mpg in-town is gonna be close IMHO. Your cam is pretty close to that except for the LSA. The key to that engine was the good breathing parts and the cam just set the torque/MPG 'character'.. it beat factory 4 BBL 440's all the time.
 
AJ/FormS said:
closed chamber heads; plus
.028 gaskets, plus pistons .040 in the hole makes a Q of .068; smack dab in the middle of the no-go zone
Do you think this will be OK with OP's stated 9.18Scr and the
Oregon 1006 ;260/264/110+2/ cam? nice cam btw for non LA heads; with42* overlap,works better with headers

Ima thinking

Static compression ratio of 9.18:1.
Ica of 58*
Effective stroke is 2.70 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.66:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is ........................ 153.17 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is ......................... 119
Click to expand...
FWIW.... Ima thinking:
- your DCR numbers are close, not super high
- the closed chambers are going to help him some.

He can always work on the ignition timing with this if any problems show up IMHO. And if he pushes the LSA out some that is gonna lower the DCR.

Not sure what the stock cam was, but this engine ran OK from the factory as it is, with the heads and SCR.....maybe a slow advance curve?
 
nm9stheham said:
I don't know what Oregon can do in that department..... it just makes for more potential for keeping your DCR up to keep up the low RPM torque. Buuuut, with quicker ramps, you have to deal with stiffer valve springs, especially with the heavier lifters. So for cheap, then maybe you have what you want. See how it does for high revs to see if you need better valve springs.

The cam may be ground with the advance you want.... really what you are setting is the ICL. (LSA minus ICL is the value of your cam advance.) If Oregon does not do that, then just use a timing set with multiple keyways. And again, torque/mileage cams have 112 to 114 LSA's and shorter durations. The one in my 351C was 114 LSA, 254/264 advertised, and 190/200 .050" duration. (Sloooow ramps too!) 18-19 mpg on the interstate with 3.08 rear gear so your 14-15 mpg in-town is gonna be close IMHO. Your cam is pretty close to that except for the LSA. The key to that engine was the good breathing parts and the cam just set the torque/MPG 'character'.. it beat factory 4 BBL 440's all the time.
Click to expand...
Okay so I see, so I should tell Oregon to have the cam grounded to 4 degrees advance so I just put the camshaft in dot to dot, if they can't then I will have to do it my self moving the markers on the timing chain.
 
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