318 Senior Project Build

-
C

cinimod2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2011
Messages
98
Reaction score
0
Location
cleveland
Hello everyone on FABO,
I was looking to get some input on an engine build I will be doing for my senior project this year. I currently have a 318 in my 75 dart that needs to be refreshed. I was going to base my build off of the zero deck build Mopar Muscle did. I am not aiming for crazy power but I would like to get as close to the 400hp they had going on theirs. Here is what I was going to put in,
Pistons:
Instead of the Keith Black ones used in their build I was going to order a Federal Mogul rebuild kit from summit that has Sealed Power cast aluminum pistons .30 over.
Cam:
I was going to use the same 280H Comp Cam used in their build
Heads:
Magnum heads
Push Rods:
Same comp cams ones used in their build
Crank:
Stock
Rods:
Stock
Carb:
I currently have a 4 barrel Edlebrock carb and intake on it that I was going to re-use for this.

I currently work at a body shop which is where ill be doing this with a little bit of help from my boss. This will be my first engine build so I was hoping to get some input from other people on this.

Thanks Dom
 
I cannot help ya but good luck...I love young folks getting their hands dirty on MOPARS rather than installing big stereos in Hondas...
 
I don't think you're gonna be able to zero deck your block with those stock replacement pistons. With those pistons you won't gain much compression even milling those magnum heads. With that said a comp 268 cam might be a little better performance wise because I think that 280 will be too much cam with stock compression. I could be wrong though, someone else may chime in and either confirm or deny what I said.

Either way, awesome project man!!!!!!
 
I'm reading a little bit of conflict here as you say this is a "Senior Project". Maybe you can clarify exactly what that means? Is this build to be graded or subject to some scrutiny from your school? Is it for the engine only? A 400 hp 318 will desperately need a supporting cast of torque converter and rear gear to operate properly.

First off, i'd throw that horsepower figure out the window. While you can cam a engine like you're talking about to make something close to 400 hp, the reliability and drivability would suffer greatly in a highway geared car with a stock torque converter.

I'd find a good machine shop and "blueprint" the engine to the hilt using the components your thinking of and what you already have. Using the proper cam could still put it in the 300 hp range, have street drivability, and last for tons of miles.
 
Looks like your in good hands with oldmanrick, good luck and please share the outcome.
 
First things first! When you order from Summit, tell them it is your senior year project.
The "Kit" from summit can be ordered with the kB Hyper pistons. Just ask to sub out the OE pistons.
The above cam recommendation is a better idea unless you can get a higher stall converter and use decent rear gears.

Also, while blue printing an engine is a great thing to do, in my opinion, for this project, you don't need to spend the money on blue printing. But do have the crank, rods, bearings, pistons, rings, torque converter and harmonic balancer balanced as a unit.

This will make the engine run real smooth, vibration free.

Good luck, post up pictures!
 
OldmanRick said:
I'm reading a little bit of conflict here as you say this is a "Senior Project". Maybe you can clarify exactly what that means? Is this build to be graded or subject to some scrutiny from your school? Is it for the engine only? A 400 hp 318 will desperately need a supporting cast of torque converter and rear gear to operate properly.

First off, i'd throw that horsepower figure out the window. While you can cam a engine like you're talking about to make something close to 400 hp, the reliability and drivability would suffer greatly in a highway geared car with a stock torque converter.

I'd find a good machine shop and "blueprint" the engine to the hilt using the components your thinking of and what you already have. Using the proper cam could still put it in the 300 hp range, have street drivability, and last for tons of miles.
Click to expand...

My senior project is to explore either a career field or subject that is not taught in high school. I am given the last two weeks outside of school my senior year to do so. Its graded on a pass/fail grade. So as long as I take pictures and tell what I learned I pass. I have talked to an administrator about it at my school and they're on board with it, I just have to fund it.

I would just be rebuilding the engine and cleaning up the bay. Alright so my 400 hp goal is out of reach. That's probably a good thing for a kid my age. To be honest I just want some sort of hp gain.

So with this rebuild kit from summit am I looking at any noticeable hp gain? I currently have a cam in the engine but I'm not too sure of the specs the previous owner just said it was a bigger cam. Should I still look into milling down the block and replacing my heads with magnum heads? Or am i able to obtain close to 300 hp without that. I was planning on boring out the cylinders .30 regardless of what I do.

Sorry I'm new to engine building
Thanks in advanced
Dom
 
Just remember, large cams, large ports and big valves do not option high stall converter, they REQUIRE it. And stiffer gears too. The 268 cam with around a 600-750 cfm carb (with proper jetting), and magnum heads will produce a massive horsepower gain over the stock 318 4bbl. I think it will push well over 300 horse, but tuning with the ignition timing and carb jets will be just as important to getting the most of the engine.
 
318willrun said:
Just remember, large cams, large ports and big valves do not option high stall converter, they REQUIRE it. And stiffer gears too. The 268 cam with around a 600-750 cfm carb (with proper jetting), and magnum heads will produce a massive horsepower gain over the stock 318 4bbl. I think it will push well over 300 horse, but tuning with the ignition timing and carb jets will be just as important to getting the most of the engine.
Click to expand...

Alright, so if I took a stock piston replacement (Like the ones in the rebuild kit I mentioned). Bore it out .30 over, get that 268 cam, magnum heads, and tune the carb and timing I should have a decent motor? I also have a set of headers on the car too.

With this set up will I have to mill the block at all or would I just have to bore it out for the bigger pistons?

Ill be working side by side with my boss at the body shop I work at who also has many years of experience I just want to have a general idea on what I have to prepare for and what ill be doing.

Thanks for the help,
Dom
 
I'd advise that you get any machine work done before you start on your two weeks. My experience is that it'll take at least a couple of weeks from the time you drop it off to when you can pick it up...I would think a month would be more than enough lead time.

If you're going to have the engine bored out, I don't think it'd be worth putting stock/replacement pistons back in. For a little more, I'd go with a hyper piston. The block may need to be decked to square or flatten it, regardless of where the pistons wind up in the block.

What kind of a budget do you have for this project? Knowing what you have to spend may help us to make suggestions.
 
Careful on the compression ratio. There are calculators on line to help with this. For a iron headed engine, stay under at or under 9.5-1 ratio.

You'll need to find out what the compression height of the pistons are. Ask Summit racing and tell them it is for use with a Magnum headed 318.
 
Hear me out on this. Consider swapping to a 5.9 (360) Magnum instead of rebuilding your 318. For one the Magnums can still be found in good running condition fairly easily, and a 100k mile motor can just be freshened up with new rings and bearings without having to send the block to the machine shop. The motor in my car is just that, a 1xx,000 mile junkyard motor I freshened up 5 years ago and it's still going strong.

Another good point is that the 5.9 magnum will get pretty darn close to 400hp with just a decent cam, not to mention the nice torque increase due to the larger displacement. The combo would be simple. The basic combo would be a stock longblock with a decent cam (something similar to Comp's xe274hr), Crosswind dual plane intake, 650-750 cfm carb, and headers that would yield you a very nice running (still with good driving manners) small block that I would put money on outrunning that 318 you read about.

Really the only thing you'll be modifying is the heads. The only machining you'll need done is to cut the valve guides down on the heads to accommodate the higher can lift, but that is cheap. It cost $50 last time I checked to have it done. Other than that just install the recommended valve springs to match the cam and you'll be set. The stock rockers can be reused, as well as the stock roller lifters as long as the roller still turns smoothly and has no damage to the roller.

Making the swap into your car would be easy. The LA style timing cover and accessories bolt right up and you can run LA headers designed for your car on the magnum heads. I'm not sure on the oil pan but it might use the stock one from your 318, or one from a LA 360. As for mating the engine to the trans, the stock magnum flexplate will work as long as it's the one from the later magnums that had the weighted flexplates. If your motor doesn't come with one I've got a weighted flexplate you can have.

I'm typing this on my phone so it probably sounds all jumbled up but it's something you might want to consider. The total cost would probably be about the same or less than what you're planning, and would be a better upgrade IMO.

I'm available if you have any more questions.
 
73Scamp318 said:
I'd advise that you get any machine work done before you start on your two weeks. My experience is that it'll take at least a couple of weeks from the time you drop it off to when you can pick it up...I would think a month would be more than enough lead time.

If you're going to have the engine bored out, I don't think it'd be worth putting stock/replacement pistons back in. For a little more, I'd go with a hyper piston. The block may need to be decked to square or flatten it, regardless of where the pistons wind up in the block.

What kind of a budget do you have for this project? Knowing what you have to spend may help us to make suggestions.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to keep it around $1000-$2000 if that is reasonable for a rebuild. If I don't get the engine bored would I still be able to achieve close to 300hp?
 
My best advise is to take it apart and measure everything before you buy any parts. Measure the deck height at all four corners with the same piston and rod assy. Will your bores clean up at standard, .020, .030, .060? Is the crank standard, .010, .020, 030? Or you may have new parts already in there, or they could be 40 year old beat to death parts. 300 Horse Power is not that hard to make with factory 318 block and heads. Take a compression check of all the cylinders before you take it apart. Do the short block right. You can always change heads in a day. Bore and hone with torque plates and with the mains torqued also. Have the rods reconditioned with new ARP bolts. Balance the crank assy. Use a windage tray. Clean the block with soap and water when you think it is clean. Every passage and surface, Dry it fast and then oil it down, paint the outside. Good Luck.
 
300 hp can be achieved with stock pistons and heads.
 
cinimod2 said:
I'm trying to keep it around $1000-$2000 if that is reasonable for a rebuild. If I don't get the engine bored would I still be able to achieve close to 300hp?
Click to expand...

You will likely come in at the top end of your budget for what you are planning...it won't be tough to hit the $2k mark with the cost of parts and machining.

I don't want to discourage you, but check into the cost of the machine work before committing to this. The better option may be the one that UOP gave...the 5.9 Magnum may be a better starting point than the 318 that you have.
 
UOP said:
Hear me out on this. Consider swapping to a 5.9 (360) Magnum instead of rebuilding your 318. For one the Magnums can still be found in good running condition fairly easily, and a 100k mile motor can just be freshened up with new rings and bearings without having to send the block to the machine shop. The motor in my car is just that, a 1xx,000 mile junkyard motor I freshened up 5 years ago and it's still going strong.

Another good point is that the 5.9 magnum will get pretty darn close to 400hp with just a decent cam, not to mention the nice torque increase due to the larger displacement. The combo would be simple. The basic combo would be a stock longblock with a decent cam (something similar to Comp's xe274hr), Crosswind dual plane intake, 650-750 cfm carb, and headers that would yield you a very nice running (still with good driving manners) small block that I would put money on outrunning that 318 you read about.

Really the only thing you'll be modifying is the heads. The only machining you'll need done is to cut the valve guides down on the heads to accommodate the higher can lift, but that is cheap. It cost $50 last time I checked to have it done. Other than that just install the recommended valve springs to match the cam and you'll be set. The stock rockers can be reused, as well as the stock roller lifters as long as the roller still turns smoothly and has no damage to the roller.

Making the swap into your car would be easy. The LA style timing cover and accessories bolt right up and you can run LA headers designed for your car on the magnum heads. I'm not sure on the oil pan but it might use the stock one from your 318, or one from a LA 360. As for mating the engine to the trans, the stock magnum flexplate will work as long as it's the one from the later magnums that had the weighted flexplates. If your motor doesn't come with one I've got a weighted flexplate you can have.

I'm typing this on my phone so it probably sounds all jumbled up but it's something you might want to consider. The total cost would probably be about the same or less than what you're planning, and would be a better upgrade IMO.

I'm available if you have any more questions.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice I might have to start considering it now looking at everything I'd have to do to my 318.
If I were to do the switch would a 5.9 still bolt up to a a904 trans? I just had the transmission rebuilt a little over a year ago so I'm trying to keep that in the car as much as I would love to have a 4 speed.
 
I agree that a good running 5.9 swap is the best bang for the dollar, the 300hp create engine is a stock 5.9 with a 4 bbl intake and said to Dyno 320hp with headers. Throw in even a mild cam and you'll be a streetable 1 hp per cubic inch.

With the 318 build I wouldn't go much more than 9:1 CR and 268 cam. With magnum or 360 heads should get mid 300 hp. Going more cam and CR is gonna give you more top end power but at a cost of bottom end and needed deep gears and stall to take advantage of it.
 
cinimod2 said:
Thanks for the advice I might have to start considering it now looking at everything I'd have to do to my 318.
If I were to do the switch would a 5.9 still bolt up to a a904 trans? I just had the transmission rebuilt a little over a year ago so I'm trying to keep that in the car as much as I would love to have a 4 speed.
Click to expand...

You would need a B & M 360 flex plate to go between your crank and the torque convertor, a new Intake manifold, the engine mount brackets are different( left side ), The exhaust manifolds are different, and now you have to be sure the trans and rear, 8.25 I hope, can take the extra torque. Is milage a concern?
 
Dom, there's a lot of good info and choices here so far. Just don't get too carried away.....after all this is your first build, not your last.

I love the fact that it's school/learning related. That's the main reason I said to throw out the HP number and why I stressed the "blueprinting". I want you be as hands on as possible, and with the math involved in the process it's a wonderful thing for someone your age.

Just make sure you take your time, plan well, and enjoy it!!! There's always "big" power down the road as you'll have a lot more time ahead of you then many of us. :D
 
cinimod2 said:
Thanks for the advice I might have to start considering it now looking at everything I'd have to do to my 318.
If I were to do the switch would a 5.9 still bolt up to a a904 trans? I just had the transmission rebuilt a little over a year ago so I'm trying to keep that in the car as much as I would love to have a 4 speed.
Click to expand...

No problem using your 904. If the engine you get doesn't have the correct flexplate (comes on later year magnums) then the one I mentioned in the other post would work fine.

You mentioned that you've already got a carb and intake, what are they? If the intake is good there is a way to run it on a magnum even though the bolt pattern is different.
 
66fs said:
You would need a B & M 360 flex plate to go between your crank and the torque convertor, a new Intake manifold, the engine mount brackets are different( left side ), The exhaust manifolds are different, and now you have to be sure the trans and rear, 8.25 I hope, can take the extra torque. Is milage a concern?
Click to expand...

When you say mileage like gas mileage? Or reliability? Mpg aren't a big factor considering I get around 9 right now but I would like to have it last for a decent amount of time. It will eventually be a crazy hp car at some point in my life. This is the big killer though I only have a 7.25 in the car right now
 
UOP said:
No problem using your 904. If the engine you get doesn't have the correct flexplate (comes on later year magnums) then the one I mentioned in the other post would work fine.

You mentioned that you've already got a carb and intake, what are they? If the intake is good there is a way to run it on a magnum even though the bolt pattern is different.
Click to expand...
I want to say it's an edlebrock performer intake. I'll have to check next time I'm at my dad's. So my hooker headers won't work on the 360?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top