372or 416 and why

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rumblefish360 said:
Hey stroked, those Edel. heads ported on your engine?
(Got flow rates by chance?)
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Here ya' go,numbers are'nt that great mind you this is a set of Edelbrocks with just the ports cleaned-up out of the box nothing more..sending them to Ryan j. soon for his stage 2 work,want them to flow better with the new cam thats going in the 360...

DSCF0198.jpg
 
I know the gear would need to be change but the verta also.....as far as not 60 not only did one person tell me about it but a few even comp cam said much durat. on the cam where the cam was working,not matching the verta flash,and cam could have been adv/or ret to help..car ran like hell on topp end put it in to high gear as I went through the lights at the end of the track, tryied to leave the lights at diff. rpm and never could get it to 60 ,
 
The 4" engines dont want a steep gear. They want to pull and use that leverage the stroke gives you. If you were bracket racing the 408 on the 1/8 mile, the gearing would be fine but you'd need a LOT more suspension to hook it. In either engine's case, the stall is WAY off. higher is NOT better. A strong combo is the 4" stoke, a set of 3.91s, a 28" tire, and a convertor that can hold the torque and keep the slippage down. I have no clue what you had for a package, but just goign by the convertor I'd say it would never have worked regardless of the engine in front of it.
 
Those numbers are good. Excellent for a street ride. Thanks stroked.
 
My 2 1/2 cents buddy, I asked the same questions here about 2 years ago. I went with the 4" stroke in the 340 for a 416. Dam yeah I have a enough cam to go 6500 easy, still running iron heads, bigger valves, pretty much port work done, , small stem tall Chevy valves, srpring seats blah blah balh TTIs 3" exh, 2900 tight stall designed like a big block convertor a MVB 727 dana u-joints large flanges. Went all forged Crank, Ross Pistons, High end rods too. Air gap 800 AVS modified and even has an electric choke. I built it like I wanted to make it so if the bottom end ever needs to hold up to 600-650 hp it is there. I also did a lot of work in the oil system too.

I am not knocking the 372, it is a great combo but in my gut feeling is more a bracket car engine and will need to rev more to make the same HP but will most likely have less torque right. You want the killer 60 time get more inches.

Bottom line is that the engine has so much Bottom end even with a failry big solid lifter cam it rips the tires and breaks your neck with just 3.91s in my 64 Dart. I swear it feels like a big block that is radical. :-D I did many 8000 RPM 273s, 7k 318s, 340s etc. And yep all ran good, but man the inches are where it is at. I swear you think you could pull the house off the fondation with this beast!

Bottom line you decide, but I listened to Moper, Adam, Rumblefish and a few others.. OH make sure you do supension work and brakes, frame connecors etc. I went the hole 9 yards on the Dart. Next stop is paint.

OH and thank you guys for al lthe help and advice I am a very happy camper! :cheers:

GLAD I DID the 416! it is a monster for the street, best part you do not need to rev the heck out of it to tear the road up either. and PS it sounds like a big block too.

I love it! I think a 408 for the buck is the best motor a guy could build from a 360. When my truck is done she gets one next. it is a 78 3/4 ton. I will make a video and You Tube it soon. But listen un-corked it feels like a 3/8 drill bit in your brain.
 
sorry it would only 60 in the 1.77 range..so I may just be better off by just rebuilding my motor change cam and verta...maybe go back to a 3000 or so with the 457 gears and make sure the cam is degreed and everything on point......do you think it would be possible to run on pump gas with 185 cylinder press... the comp should be around 11.5.1 not to sure after I took the motor apart for what the shop told me it would be.....lets say that it was suppose to be 12.5.1 with 55cc heads then I find out it has 68cc heads what would the comp come out to be now?????
 
earthmover said:
I know the gear would need to be change but the verta also.....as far as not 60 not only did one person tell me about it but a few even comp cam said much durat. on the cam where the cam was working,not matching the verta flash,and cam could have been adv/or ret to help..car ran like hell on topp end put it in to high gear as I went through the lights at the end of the track, tryied to leave the lights at diff. rpm and never could get it to 60 ,
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Just sounds long on duration to me or late cam timing? I would think at least .25 quicker for this setup. Over cam is a killer on a little motor, been there done that. Has to live at high rpms to stay in the power band. So yep you may need stall for a strip pass too.

PS sounds high for pump gas, but with that much gear and cam is maybe OK?
 
yes it was high in the dura. 260@50 so if I do put the motor back togeather then it will be with the comp x 284 soild cam it's like 243@50 I think but I dont know right now just getting all the info I can for now..but I am ready to work on the car.......
 
moper said:
yup, 240's basically a modern valve job and some cleanup. But RPMs will move that out of the box when you fix the valve job, for about $400 more at my shop. I'll take the weight and better chamber for that $400. And the 500hp will be made much lower than 340's peaks regardless of the stroke. The 4" engines I've played with having good to really good RPMs will pass 500hp around 6K, with peak torque in the 4-4300 range. On pump gas. Very streetable.
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It didn't cost me a thousand dollars to do these.

It was with stainless valves,hardened seats, guides, spring pads cut down and surfaced for $628+$60 to flow them.

I did the clean up my self before the test.

So your shop charges $400 for a 5 angle valve job?
Over hear it's about $175-$225 for a multi angle [5-9] [no stone] valve job.
 
earth, I'm not a fan of having a lot of cooks in the kitchen... ya know? What is decided to be done needs to be your decision and who ever is doing your machining/setup. Everyone does things differently and most times the same result can be gotten a few different ways. I'd wager the whole package is currently a mismatch. But what needs to be done is a matter of opinion and personal taste. If you are using Bobby, rely on him to get your combo matched. It's obvious there are some rather large issues with the combo, so I'm sure he can improve it. I have run 185psi with iron heads on pump unleaded high test. But your tune needs to be dead on.
 
340, yup. $448 strictly for the valve job to be exact. And that doesnt include seats or guides, or spring seat work or guide trimming or milling. $1000 just for the labor on a set of typical X heads that are whipped and have to be checked for cracks. Flowbench work is $100/hr. I also buy my parts thru the shop because I believe in letting them earn a living and stay in business as opposed to bringing in everything and saving a few bucks so they starve. Even the shops that have all kinds of problems around here charge more than $225. Which is why I drive 1.5 hrs one way to this place.

If my math is right on your heads, and generalizing a little for pricing and substituting rough cost for anyone to duplicate your time in porting... You've got $628 + 60= $688. That includes the valves. So, a set up of springs retainers, locks, and seals from Comp lets say goes another $250ish (bought thru a shop) or $938 without your grinding time. The typical stage one port goes around $250 from most places.So $1188.00 Not unreasonable to assume at all.

I do know CT is the most expensive state in the country to live in. So I'm sure some goes into that. But still, using your numbers... You got 240cfm from those. A set of RPMs from summit today is $734.50 x 2 or $1469.00 Add that $175 valve job you mentioned and we're up to $1643.00. A difference of $455. I'd still take less weight and better chamber for that $450. I'll also make more power with them and be more pump gas friendly.
 
Actually it was $89 for the comp springs and another $40 & $16 for the locks/retainers so about $833 + an hour of my time, not theirs.

So your $1643 minus my $833=$810 difference.

BTW what your saying will cost $1917+tax at your shop, give or take, just incase more needs to be done.

And thats if you can get those eddys to your door for your price of $1469+shp

Regardless of this earthmover, do what makes you feel good and gives you the desired outcome.
This only equates to the fact that you can get what you want either way and depending on your resources can get away with it pretty cheaply.

Pretty much how much do you know about engines and cylinder heads along with how air moves through a port.

I'm just offering another way, nothing more.
Good luck.
 
I have had a 371 engine in an old 71 dart . great ride very good power for the money a 371 is great . i had alot of head work & intake done to it and a very nice cam also it was like 557/570... it was a Hughes cam . good convertor also and a dana 60 w/4.56 gears best ET was a [email protected] 60ft 1.62 1/8 was 7.62 . for what i wanted it was great engine. just my two cent thats all........
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yea my 340 ran okay just had high hopes for it cause what I paid and what the machine shop said it would do. but thats how it works sometime.but heres around down on the combo

30 over 340
bme dome tops comp. not known was told 12.5.1 but theres know way
comp cam 306mag 260@50 555/555
j heads little work done 240@500/140@500
17/8 headers also tried 15/8
torker 11 matched to the heads 950 hp 78 sq
727 rev. patt
91/2 dynamic verta 5000
513gears went to 456
had 29.5/10.5 m/t slicks went to 27.5/10
ss springs mp drag shocks back
90/10 in the front
8 gal cell holley blue with 1/2 line to the front
70 duster
car was all ways dead from the start to about 100' out then ran like hell I would just go to high gear as I croos the line..went the 1/4 mile a few times with the 513 in the car turn it 7200.oh I shift at 6000and try to leave at 2500/3000little motor just would not turn up dist. locked out had time at 34/36/38

best the car ever ran was [email protected] with a 1.77 60'
went 90/91mph with out the alt. belt one time..didnt know it had came off.....all this was with 3" pipes out to a set of flowmasters at the rearend..I know theres a better muffler out there and plan to get some but hay need the power first....:-D
'
 
You need more exhaust flow in them heads to start.

Grind out the kink in the roof, take out the end freez plugs and start with the end exh ports.
You can feel 1 finger on roof of port , 1 finger into freeze plug hole on the other side of the roof to tell how much material there is to work with, you don't wanna go to thin or you'll have hot spots, also cut the exhaust guide out completely then grind the exh short turn so it pretty much go's straight up from the valve seat and just smooth the top edge[short turn to floor].

On the 2 center ports, open up the width of the pinched off section[@ port exit] of the floor where the head bolt recess is, but don't go to thin or you'll have gasket sealing issues, and on the end ports open up where the port pinches off on the far ends just a lil.

Some may disagree with this advise but I know it works and would not recommend it if it didn't.

Your exhaust flow is next to stock to be honest.

You will pick up a ton of flow on the exhaust ports if you do these things and these are pretty basic procedures that will add lots of power/rpm/flow ratio ect. to your combo just to start.

How much cranking pressure do you have right now?
 
185 on all the cylinders.see I was told 12.5.1 with 55 cc heads when I took the motor apart I cc the heads and they are 68cc so I dont know where that would put me at from 12.5.1 with 55to 68ccanybody tell me how to get this #
 
I fig. about 11.1 I was going to try and run it on pump gas if I put it back togeather like it is.but it will have less cam 243@50
 
Hell with a closed chamber [like BB 915, old 324 318 or cracknums] you could WITH PROPER TUNE run 87 octane , like a friend of mine does, if you wanted.

It will probably be, umm lets say, 'marginal' with open chamber heads and premium octane.
Then again before any decisions made did you figure in the head gasket when cc-ing?
 
yea I flashed it before I took the car down and I looked over my notes it flashed at 4200 in the car ..as far as the gasket no I didnt add that in thats about what 8cc more so I may be okay on the pump....I just looked at the cam spec that I will use if I dont go bigger..it's a comp xtrem 282s
2500/6500
244/252 @50 thats what Bobby rec. me use ..
either way I plan to get some new work done to on pair of heads that I have(Bobby) get the thumbs up for that........
 
earthmover said:
yea I flashed it before I took the car down and I looked over my notes it flashed at 4200 in the car ..as far as the gasket no I didnt add that in thats about what 8cc more so I may be okay on the pump....I just looked at the cam spec that I will use if I dont go bigger..it's a comp xtrem 282s
2500/6500
244/252 @50 thats what Bobby rec. me use ..
either way I plan to get some new work done to on pair of heads that I have(Bobby) get the thumbs up for that........
Click to expand...

I like the cam.
Good, sounds like a pump gas motor now.
You will be in good hands with bobby.
Enjoy
Justin
 
thanks for all the replies and keep them coming if possible guys.....
 
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