408 stroker vs procharger 360

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needsaresto

needsaresto

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Just to let you guys have a say in my build for my 70 Dart,I thought I'd post on the subject of a built 408 stroker or a procharger equipped 360 .

I have narrowed my options down this far,but kinda torn between the 2.

Let me first tell you that my 70 Dart Swinger will be a fair weather ride only.It will be used for weekend cruising,shows and the odd highway trip.It will definitely see track time at least twice a year.So a full interior is needed as is all lights/wipers etc functional.

I want to be able to make a decent showing at the track when there,running deep in the 11"s or possibly 10"s,yet dont want 3500 rpm highway trips.So some sort of overdrive unit is in order.And no,I dont like nitrous.

Heres what my other plans are for it;
mini tub the wheel wells(slicks for the track only and yes I'll narrow the back seat so still has full interior)
frame connectors
ss springs and adjustable snubber
Strange double adjustable drag shocks all around
shimming the diff for correct pinion angle
At least a 6 point roll cage
Heavy duty rebuilt 727 toque flight with reverse/manual
roll control or trans brake?Whats more street friendly?
Fibreglass front end(fenders and probably hood)
Relocating the battery to trunk

I have an 8 3/4 A body diff which came with the car(was equipped this way even thought the rest of the drivetrain was 318/904) which also has a 742 center section.This diff will need to be built to withstand punishment for years.Suggestions here would be extremely helpfull as diffs are kind of one area I dont have a lot of knowledge.

The 360 will be based with a 1979 360 4 bbl from a truck.

If I go the stroker route,the motor might not be very friendly on the street so I am leaning towards procharger here.

If I go procharger,the motor will be built for it.Forged everything.
 
I'd go with a procharger but if you don't already have a 727 I'd go for a 904. Other than that your set up should be fine.
 
Well if you are going buy forged internals anyways why not do the stroker and Procharger together? Thats what I ended up doing. I went with about 8.3:1 compression which is nearly as low as you can go with a Quench Dome stroker piston. Eagle H-Beam Rods, Mopar Forged crank, Diamond made the pistons, mild Hughes hydraulic cam, and Edelbrock RPM heads ported by hughes. Runs smooth as can be for everyday driving on pump gas @ 10psi boost. Mines a 4 speed Tranny and on 8" street legal slicks I went 12.00 @ 119. Power is definatly there to go low 11's I just can't get it to the ground the way it's setup now and I'm not going to modify anything futher. That and I'm a bit scared to get more traction with over 700tq at the flywheel not sure how much more the clutch can hold.
With a different cam profile and a good single plane intake this setup could easily make 600 very streetable rwhp. If you have any questions about procharging let me know.
 
Well,I'll probably stick with the 360 displacement and concentrate on getting the power to the ground.600 + h.p with a procharger and 360 should be more than enough in a lightened a body to get me in the low 11's or high tens.Im also thinking there may be more longevity in a stock stroke 360.Please enlighten me if I need more power,but keep in mind I'll have a fibreglass nose on the car.

Like you said,your afraid of hooking up and what may happen.I think I'll make it hook good,but not as much power!!As for some of the sacrifices to streetability for traction,Im willing.Mini tubbing ,roll cage and frame connecters as well.My Dart is a basic 318 model and nothing some purist would say I ruined.

As for the 727,yes I already have a heavy duty one.I know the 904 will rob less power,but I dont have one right now.Who knows,they are everywhere...

So, procharger it may very well end up being!!

I recently bought a copy of Corky Bells book,Maximum boost.After I have read it and see what is involved,I may even go twin turbo.At the very least I'll be informed!

My skills at fabbing are good and I have always been a do it myself guy.So I guess it all depends on how much money I can sneak past the wife...
 
So you will be driving this every weekend, racing less than 5 times a year, but you want to run 10s? I have no idea what your budget is, but there's no way I see you accomplishing all your goals with one car without some pretty serious money. You need overdrive, you need a low stall to cruise, but that low stall will never let "normal" size race tires hook at the strip. Nor do drag shocks make for a nice driving experience on the highway. They call the drag shocks for a reason. I would suggest you modify your usage to exclude running 10s, or 11s, or 15s, and simply build the car you want to drive? Then take iot to the track, and see what it runs. Remeber, vipers only run 12s with a good driver. But they do a lot more stuff very well. Drag racing is about acceleration and light weight only. If you need that a few times a summer, dont build for it. Build for what you want..big power, nice driving, nice stopping, then just race it ad see how she does. In terms of the engine, tell me the budget, and we'll go from there..lol.
 
If you want to drive it on the street don't go too crazy on the stall. I don't think 10's are out of the questions at all. If your going with a 360, get a forged crank, neutral balance everything, 8:1 Quench dome pistons, good ported heads, commetic head gaskets, head studs, H-beam rods, blower grind cam, 750cfm carb modified for boost, water/meth injection, with 15psi I'd say you'd be right around 600rwhp. It'd be a mild motor maybe 300rwhp without boost relying more on the boost for the power will afford you normal cruising and drive ability on the street. I run 3.23's in the rear of my car, if you don't go too tall on your slicks you could run 3.23's or 3.55's and not need an overdrive for hwy driving. If you can get that power to the ground you'll be in the 10's. As for fuel I might run a lil higher octane at the track, but you could probably just run 92 if you wanted.
Only pulling a 1.87 60ft in my 4 speed taking it easy in first gear because of the tires I was running I ran a 12.00 1/4 mile. So I know what you want to do is very possible.
Another major part that I guess didn't really hit on is the fuel system. I'm running a Holley Electric fuel pump designed for fuel injection, through an Aeromotive Bypass style boost sensing fuel pressure regulator. Runs 7psi at Idle and for every 1psi boost it raises the fuel pressure 1psi to match it. Works slick, never had a problem.

JR
 
Now thats the kind of can do info I need!

I have had friends in the past who had 10 second streetable rides.Of course they were brutal,cammed beasts.Thats why I'll go with the blower or turbo.A car does become much more manageable and much faster also.Interesting thing is the blower or turbo is not terribly hard on the engine.Not like nos.Jeez,Chrysler offered 70 000 mile warantees on thier turbo cars after all.

So not too high a stall,dont bother with the overdrive and keep the gear ratio reasonable...sounds like I should go with a 5 speed instead!Maybe a Kiesler,but I understand there can be major fitment issues with them.Hmm,how much pounding can a borg warner 5 speed absorb after modification?

Moper;
One of the major reasons that todays cars can run fast and yet still be cruise friendly is thier gearing.5 and 6 speed trans help lots in this regard.Thats why ya see 10 second Toyota Supra's at the track drive home.The other reason is turbo charging.Those guys run upwards of 30 psi for boost!And then they simply turn it down for the street.I'd like to fight fire with fire so to speak,and beat them at thier own game!There's one particular 4 cyl fox body mustang I have my sights set on....he's running a massive intercooled turbo combined with alcohol injection.It'll take more than your average small block!Plus his car is about 2600 lbs...


Another major part that I guess didn't really hit on is the fuel system. I'm running a Holley Electric fuel pump designed for fuel injection, through an Aeromotive Bypass style boost sensing fuel pressure regulator. Runs 7psi at Idle and for every 1psi boost it raises the fuel pressure 1psi to match it. Works slick, never had a problem.


That sounds slick!I would hazard a guess that your procharger is a blow thru setup?Thats more than likely what I'll be doing as well.


If you can get that power to the ground you'll be in the 10's.

Well,thats the trick aint it??!!I'll be getting a chassis book next Im thinkin.

The suggestions so far have been great! Keep it coming guys...
 
Now thats the kind of can do info I need!

I have had friends in the past who had 10 second streetable rides.Of course they were brutal,cammed beasts.Thats why I'll go with the blower or turbo.A car does become much more manageable and much faster also.Interesting thing is the blower or turbo is not terribly hard on the engine.Not like nos.Jeez,Chrysler offered 70 000 mile warantees on thier turbo cars after all.

So not too high a stall,dont bother with the overdrive and keep the gear ratio reasonable...sounds like I should go with a 5 speed instead!Maybe a Kiesler,but I understand there can be major fitment issues with them.Hmm,how much pounding can a borg warner 5 speed absorb after modification?

Moper;
One of the major reasons that todays cars can run fast and yet still be cruise friendly is thier gearing.5 and 6 speed trans help lots in this regard.Thats why ya see 10 second Toyota Supra's at the track drive home.The other reason is turbo charging.Those guys run upwards of 30 psi for boost!And then they simply turn it down for the street.I'd like to fight fire with fire so to speak,and beat them at thier own game!There's one particular 4 cyl fox body mustang I have my sights set on....he's running a massive intercooled turbo combined with alcohol injection.It'll take more than your average small block!Plus his car is about 2600 lbs...


Another major part that I guess didn't really hit on is the fuel system. I'm running a Holley Electric fuel pump designed for fuel injection, through an Aeromotive Bypass style boost sensing fuel pressure regulator. Runs 7psi at Idle and for every 1psi boost it raises the fuel pressure 1psi to match it. Works slick, never had a problem.


That sounds slick!I would hazard a guess that your procharger is a blow thru setup?Thats more than likely what I'll be doing as well.


If you can get that power to the ground you'll be in the 10's.

Well,thats the trick aint it??!!I'll be getting a chassis book next Im thinkin.

The suggestions so far have been great! Keep it coming guys...
 
Yeah it's all blow through. If you run this setup carbureted you'll have to get a modified carb that has throttle shaft seals and composite floats. Brass floats will collapse under boost pressure. I got mine from a place in Colorado they take a Holley 4150 do the above along with taking off the choke horn so the air is less restricted coming through the carb hat from the Procharger. If you go with fuel injection it's different story. You can also run slightly higher boost safely all factors being the same with fuel injection because of the way the fuel is dispersed.
If you have room you could do an intercooler too, but because of space constraints on the A-body and not wanting to modify anything I ended up going with water injection. Which is a very good safeguard against detonation. If you go with a procharger I would highly recommend http://thesuperchargerstore.com Terry and Bob have been boosting mopars for years and years and they know their stuff.

Any other questions let me know.
 
1969Swinger said:
Yeah it's all blow through. If you run this setup carbureted you'll have to get a modified carb that has throttle shaft seals and composite floats. Brass floats will collapse under boost pressure. I got mine from a place in Colorado they take a Holley 4150 do the above along with taking off the choke horn so the air is less restricted coming through the carb hat from the Procharger. If you go with fuel injection it's different story. You can also run slightly higher boost safely all factors being the same with fuel injection because of the way the fuel is dispersed.
If you have room you could do an intercooler too, but because of space constraints on the A-body and not wanting to modify anything I ended up going with water injection. Which is a very good safeguard against detonation. If you go with a procharger I would highly recommend http://thesuperchargerstore.com Terry and Bob have been boosting mopars for years and years and they know their stuff.

Any other questions let me know.
Click to expand...

Oops!I just noticed I posted the same thing twice..Ahem!

So when you ordered from procharger,was everything you needed supplied or did you need to scrounge a bit?

How was the ease of installation?Did you get stuck and need thier help?

How is thier teck support?

You said you didnt want to modify so no intercooler.I'll definitely intercool so what mods will be needed for that?
 
Fight fire with fire? A 60/70s car vs a modern supercar? You're bringing a blunderbuss to a laser tag fight...lol. Teh reason those cars run so well is tehy are balanced. But a 10 second Supra makes much more than 600hp. Closer to 800. And the displacement is much smaller, so torque isnt as big a concern. Nor are they running 3.23 gears. They run closer to 3.70 final drives (from my limited understanding) with those 6 speeds. Huge single turbos so torque is cut even more, and on a straight 6 cylinder low end. They rev to 8500 rpm. Your V8 simply cant match that. You will have mad torque with even a large turbo. And a procharger eats roughly 25% of it's own power just to turn itself. I saw a write up a few years back that said it took just shy of 150hp just to turn the blower at full boost. So to make 600hp at the crank, you have to make 750. So we're back to the V8 block. Plan to buy another one. a good one too. You still havetn mentionned money. So either you can afford to write a huge check and it's a non issue, or it's a huge issue and you really havent thought of hoiw much all this will cost. You can build a 416 A body to run 10s easy. Or go 150mph driven everywhere. Or you can build a blown 360 to do the same. But from the sound of it, you're trying to get too much from one car to keep up with the Jones' mustang. If you go boosted, Go turbo and electric engine management with a 6sp, and put some real gear in it. Like a set of 3.91s. Careful choice of suspension parts will give you a slightly lowered stance, but still let the drag racing part of the suspension work right.
 
I went through the superchargerstore when I ordered everything, comes with everything you'll need to bolt it into place. Pulley's, Brackets, bolts, waterpump, hoses,belt/tensioner, clamps, carb hat,blowoff valve etc... Install was no problem at all, tech support it great if you do need it though.

If you go with a Keisler you can run a deeper gear, but plan on shifting like mad, the 1st and 2nd gears are lowered and put closer together. On my stock 4 speed running 3.91's I hit my 6200 rev limiter crossing the finish line at 122mph. Since then I have changed to 3.23's to make it more hwy friendly as well. 5sp overdrive would be nice on the street but I doubt you'll be able to make quite as good of times...probably still could be in the 10's though. Depending on tire height you might need overdrive to get through the 1/4 in a 5sp and anytime you go below a 1:1 final drive ratio you're loose more tq multiplication to the wheels.

All depends on what you want and how much cash you are willing to devote to this project. A turbo setup would be cool and provides some other options that a simple Procharger install won't do. But it would be more complex, require greater fabrications and tunning to make everything work properly.
Prochargers do eat up a little more power than a turbo would but with nearly 50% power increase per 7psi of intercooled boost....the power to drive the supercharger starts to become arbitrary.

Just do lots of research, talk to guys that have build monster street strokers, prochargers, and turbos and choose wisely :)
 
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