440 Cooling Question “Champion Rad”

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Here's what I think's gonna happen. I hope I'm right. I think it's gonna run cool. The reason I think that is because of that radiator. IF it REALLY has two rows of 1.5" tubes, that'll do it. Regardless of the under powered fan or the flat shroud.

I hope. lol
 
If someone told you to dwell the coolant in the engine, they were DEAD WRONG. It's misinformation like that that gets people in trouble. You need to get the coolant out as quickly as possible before it has a chance to get too hot. Remember this. The people HERE have nothing to gain from giving you advice. The people you buy from do.
 
We tried to tell him not to go with somebody's package deal. Just like all the rest, he didn't listen. I hope it works.

Here's what I think's gonna happen. I hope I'm right. I think it's gonna run cool. The reason I think that is because of that radiator. It is REALLY has two rows of 1.5" tubes, that'll do it. Regardless of the under powered fan or the flat shroud.

I hope. lol

Everyone I talked to tonight at the club meet agrees with you Rusty. That it will cool and be fine and then some.

As far as the shroud goes. I agree 100% not worth it if you have two fans and all that blockage. But it’s one fan nearly covering the whole deal. If it runs hot I’ll pull the shroud and fix the fan directly to the radiator. I can easily fab it up. The only extra piece I spent money on is the shroud. If it works great if not I’ll deal with a modification
 
If someone told you to dwell the coolant in the engine, they were DEAD WRONG. It's misinformation like that that gets people in trouble. You need to get the coolant out as quickly as possible before it has a chance to get too hot. Remember this. The people HERE have nothing to gain from giving you advice. The people you buy from do.

Exactly. You want it out of the engine pronto and for it to spend some time in the radiator.
 
Everyone I talked to tonight at the club meet agrees with you Rusty. That it will cool and be fine and then some.

As far as the shroud goes. I agree 100% not worth it if you have two fans and all that blockage. But it’s one fan nearly covering the whole deal. If it runs hot I’ll pull the shroud and fix the fan directly to the radiator. I can easily fab it up. The only extra piece I spent money on is the shroud. If it works great if not I’ll deal with a modification
I think it will be ok because that's one hell of a radiator.
 
This has been touched on a zillion times but here’s another thread with the same question.

My 71 Scamp build (link below) is nearing the start up phase. Standing in the way is the rad. I’m ready to purchase and I looking to save a few bucks and have decided to go with Champion. I went to order the rad and the tech told me to go with a 26” and dual 12” fans. He told me I’d have to modify the car to get this in. I’m not opposed to doing that. This car came originally with a 198 according to the tag. It currently has a 225 in her. So I’m going to guess it has a small opening where the rad sits. I have no access to the car until May so going to measure it is a no go. Especially with the mountain of snow we got. Has anyone done this operations? Is this something that can be done fairly easily? Does anyone have a part number for me to look at? The engine is currently on the run stand waiting on a few small items and the rad order. I’d like to run the stand with the rad that’s going in the car. This car will definitely be over the 550hp mark. She’s a full solid roller with all the goodies money tried to buy. Lol For details check out the link.

It’s been a long and winding road but there’s the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

Merry Christmas

Slow build 71 Scamp 440

View attachment 1716492317
Thought it may help to share how I've managed to keep my motors cool in hotter climate states like California & Florida. In the attached photos, you'll notice all the cars have a/c. Everything has to do with the incoming airflow from the front of the car. The down-flow radiator design, in my opinion, is not as efficient as the cross-flow design. The water needs to stay in the radiator longer for the fan or incoming air at speed to cool the tubes. I prefer using the double & triple by-pass radiator units. They both have 1" tubes in their design. Summit is my go-to place to buy them. They were made by Northern Radiator Company but I don't know if that's still current info. The '68 Dart being rebuilt in the photos has a 19"x26" wide radiator. The fans I buy are 16"x2600cfm by Spal. I've built & used shrouds in the past but sometimes you can get away without one depending on frontal airflow. All three cars have the same lower radiator mount configuration and all three cars have Reilly Motorsports front suspensions. Bill, the company owner, suggested this method of cooling for my Barracuda, as he used the same design for his '68 Dart HEMI car on the street. It works well so I continue to build them like this. NOTE: I strongly recommend using a good quality, high volume water pump such as Edelbrock, Milodon, Weiand, etc. Just my two-cents for the day!
This has been touched on a zillion times but here’s another thread with the same question.

My 71 Scamp build (link below) is nearing the start up phase. Standing in the way is the rad. I’m ready to purchase and I looking to save a few bucks and have decided to go with Champion. I went to order the rad and the tech told me to go with a 26” and dual 12” fans. He told me I’d have to modify the car to get this in. I’m not opposed to doing that. This car came originally with a 198 according to the tag. It currently has a 225 in her. So I’m going to guess it has a small opening where the rad sits. I have no access to the car until May so going to measure it is a no go. Especially with the mountain of snow we got. Has anyone done this operations? Is this something that can be done fairly easily? Does anyone have a part number for me to look at? The engine is currently on the run stand waiting on a few small items and the rad order. I’d like to run the stand with the rad that’s going in the car. This car will definitely be over the 550hp mark. She’s a full solid roller with all the goodies money tried to buy. Lol For details check out the link.

It’s been a long and winding road but there’s the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

Merry Christmas

Slow build 71 Scamp 440

View attachment 1716492317
This has been touched on a zillion times but here’s another thread with the same question.

My 71 Scamp build (link below) is nearing the start up phase. Standing in the way is the rad. I’m ready to purchase and I looking to save a few bucks and have decided to go with Champion. I went to order the rad and the tech told me to go with a 26” and dual 12” fans. He told me I’d have to modify the car to get this in. I’m not opposed to doing that. This car came originally with a 198 according to the tag. It currently has a 225 in her. So I’m going to guess it has a small opening where the rad sits. I have no access to the car until May so going to measure it is a no go. Especially with the mountain of snow we got. Has anyone done this operations? Is this something that can be done fairly easily? Does anyone have a part number for me to look at? The engine is currently on the run stand waiting on a few small items and the rad order. I’d like to run the stand with the rad that’s going in the car. This car will definitely be over the 550hp mark. She’s a full solid roller with all the goodies money tried to buy. Lol For details check out the link.

It’s been a long and winding road but there’s the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel.

Merry Christmas

Slow build 71 Scamp 440

View attachment 1716492317
Thought it may help to share how I've managed to keep my motors cool in hotter climates like California & Florida. Attached are a few project photos. In these photos, all cars have a/c. Everything has to do with airflow coming into the front of the car. The down-flow radiator design, in my opinion, is not as efficient as the cross-flow design. The water needs to stay in the radiator longer for the fan, or incoming air at speed, to cool the tubes in the radiator. I prefer using the double & triple by-pass units. Both designs have 1" tubes. I buy them from Summit. In the past, they were made by Northern Radiator Company (not sure if that's still the case). The '68 Dart uses a 19"x26" radiator. The fans I prefer are 16" x 2600cfm by Spal. I've built & used shrouds in the past but sometimes you can get away without one - depending on the frontal airflow. All three cars have the same lower radiator mount configuration. Strongly recommend a good quality, high volume water pump with a cross-flow design such as Edelbrock, Milodon, Weiand, etc. The radiator I suggest using is a Northern Radiator 209695 and modify as needed. (Will attach more photos of current Dart build in a 2nd reply).

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Nice looking set up. We’ll give it a shot with what I have and then if need be fab up that shroud and pull it away from the rad. I didn’t have the means to cut a 16” opening that would be acceptable on my own so it gives me a good starting point to fab up some sides if I find I’m over heating. We get some hot summer days here as well but no AC or PS on the car so that should take a little pressure off. But I’m sure I’ll be corrected. Lol
 
I like your core opening modifications. Between those and that cross flow radiator, it really looks like it enhances airflow.

I see you've removed the under radiator support that ties the front frame rails together, and added a bolt in piece. How is that working out with the power levels your putting through it?

On a side note, the dual Spal fans I'm running move the back side of the electric motors away from the water pump input and allowed me enough extra room to fit the shroud.

Radiator and shrouds.jpg
 

I like your core opening modifications. Between those and that cross flow radiator, it really looks like it enhances airflow.

I see you've removed the under radiator support that ties the front frame rails together, and added a bolt in piece. How is that working out with the power levels your putting through it?

On a side note, the dual Spal fans I'm running move the back side of the electric motors away from the water pump input and allowed me enough extra room to fit the shroud.

View attachment 1716494171
As long as your k member is torqued in place it won’t move . As for fan room goes by moving radiator forward I can go with one fan instead of two and save money . The better cooling of the cross flow radiator lets me do this .
 
As long as your k member is torqued in place it won’t move . As for fan room goes by moving radiator forward I can go with one fan instead of two and save money . The better cooling of the cross flow radiator lets me do this .
I have always though of our chassis as being similar to a shoe boxes, which are easy to twist, especially convertibles which are more like having the top of the box removed.

There was a good video years ago from a now defunct company that showed the chassis flex using tape placed diagonally across the engine compartment before and after adding bracing. The amount of sag in the tape when their chassis jig flexed the car to simulate engine torque etc was eye-opening. I can't find it now, and don't remember what the company's name was. It had an "X" in the name...Maybe someone can chime in.

US Cartool and others offer chassis stiffening kits most all of which add the radiator support bracket.

I added their full kit and made my own Monte Carlo Bar which eliminated the last vestige of cowl shake that originally plague my convertible, and I was able to use the factory bolts with the exception of drilling 3 holes in the cowl near the wiper motor. This completely transformed how my car performs and handles, and is worth looking into as the results are dramatic. You obviously have the fabricating skills, and your cars are impressive!

"Mopar Chassis Stiffening Solutions

Classic Mopars (A-, B-, and E-bodies) were unibody designs, which, while lightweight, exhibit significant flex compared to modern performance standards. Stiffening allows the suspension to work more efficiently and predictably. Common components, often available as kits from Mopar-affiliated suppliers like Mancini Racing and US Car Tool, include:

  • Subframe Connectors: These weld-in components connect the front and rear frame rails, effectively turning the unibody into a full-frame vehicle and significantly increasing torsional rigidity.
  • Torque Boxes: These reinforce active suspension mounting points to distribute brute forces, especially during hard launches or cornering. Many B-bodies did not have these from the factory but can be retrofitted.
  • Inner Fender Braces & Core Support Stiffeners: These add strength to the front frame rail system, which is prone to twisting.
  • Rear Spring Relocation Kits: Often part of a "Level 3" comprehensive kit, these move leaf springs inboard to allow for maximum tire width and improve handling.
  • Lower Radiator Support Braces: These provide additional triangulation and strength to the front of the chassis."

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I have always though of our chassis as being similar to a shoe boxes, which are easy to twist, especially convertibles which are more like having the top of the box removed.

There was a good video years ago that showed the chassis flex before and after adding bracing. I can't find it now, and don't remember what the company's name was. It had an "X" in the name...

US Cartool and others offer chassis stiffening kits most all of which add the radiator support bracket.

I added their full kit and made my own Monte Carlo Bar which eliminated the last vestige of cowl shake that originally plague my convertible. This completely transformed how my car performs and handles, and is worth looking into. You obviously have the fabricating skills, and your cars are impressive!

"Mopar Chassis Stiffening Solutions

Classic Mopars (A-, B-, and E-bodies) were unibody designs, which, while lightweight, exhibit significant flex compared to modern performance standards. Stiffening allows the suspension to work more efficiently and predictably. Common components, often available as kits from Mopar-affiliated suppliers like Mancini Racing and US Car Tool, include:

  • Subframe Connectors: These weld-in components connect the front and rear frame rails, effectively turning the unibody into a full-frame vehicle and significantly increasing torsional rigidity.
  • Torque Boxes: These reinforce active suspension mounting points to distribute brute forces, especially during hard launches or cornering. Many B-bodies did not have these from the factory but can be retrofitted.
  • Inner Fender Braces & Core Support Stiffeners: These add strength to the front frame rail system, which is prone to twisting.
  • Rear Spring Relocation Kits: Often part of a "Level 3" comprehensive kit, these move leaf springs inboard to allow for maximum tire width and improve handling.
  • Lower Radiator Support Braces: These provide additional triangulation and strength to the front of the chassis."

View attachment 1716494211
I have always though of our chassis as being similar to a shoe boxes, which are easy to twist, especially convertibles which are more like having the top of the box removed.

There was a good video years ago that showed the chassis flex before and after adding bracing. I can't find it now, and don't remember what the company's name was. It had an "X" in the name...

US Cartool and others offer chassis stiffening kits most all of which add the radiator support bracket.

I added their full kit and made my own Monte Carlo Bar which eliminated the last vestige of cowl shake that originally plague my convertible. This completely transformed how my car performs and handles, and is worth looking into. You obviously have the fabricating skills, and your cars are impressive!

"Mopar Chassis Stiffening Solutions

Classic Mopars (A-, B-, and E-bodies) were unibody designs, which, while lightweight, exhibit significant flex compared to modern performance standards. Stiffening allows the suspension to work more efficiently and predictably. Common components, often available as kits from Mopar-affiliated suppliers like Mancini Racing and US Car Tool, include:

  • Subframe Connectors: These weld-in components connect the front and rear frame rails, effectively turning the unibody into a full-frame vehicle and significantly increasing torsional rigidity.
  • Torque Boxes: These reinforce active suspension mounting points to distribute brute forces, especially during hard launches or cornering. Many B-bodies did not have these from the factory but can be retrofitted.
  • Inner Fender Braces & Core Support Stiffeners: These add strength to the front frame rail system, which is prone to twisting.
  • Rear Spring Relocation Kits: Often part of a "Level 3" comprehensive kit, these move leaf springs inboard to allow for maximum tire width and improve handling.
  • Lower Radiator Support Braces: These provide additional triangulation and strength to the front of the chassis."

View attachment 1716494211
I have always though of our chassis as being similar to a shoe boxes, which are easy to twist, especially convertibles which are more like having the top of the box removed.

There was a good video years ago that showed the chassis flex before and after adding bracing. I can't find it now, and don't remember what the company's name was. It had an "X" in the name...

US Cartool and others offer chassis stiffening kits most all of which add the radiator support bracket.

I added their full kit and made my own Monte Carlo Bar which eliminated the last vestige of cowl shake that originally plague my convertible. This completely transformed how my car performs and handles, and is worth looking into. You obviously have the fabricating skills, and your cars are impressive!

"Mopar Chassis Stiffening Solutions

Classic Mopars (A-, B-, and E-bodies) were unibody designs, which, while lightweight, exhibit significant flex compared to modern performance standards. Stiffening allows the suspension to work more efficiently and predictably. Common components, often available as kits from Mopar-affiliated suppliers like Mancini Racing and US Car Tool, include:

  • Subframe Connectors: These weld-in components connect the front and rear frame rails, effectively turning the unibody into a full-frame vehicle and significantly increasing torsional rigidity.
  • Torque Boxes: These reinforce active suspension mounting points to distribute brute forces, especially during hard launches or cornering. Many B-bodies did not have these from the factory but can be retrofitted.
  • Inner Fender Braces & Core Support Stiffeners: These add strength to the front frame rail system, which is prone to twisting.
  • Rear Spring Relocation Kits: Often part of a "Level 3" comprehensive kit, these move leaf springs inboard to allow for maximum tire width and improve handling.
  • Lower Radiator Support Braces: These provide additional triangulation and strength to the front of the chassis."

View attachment 1716494211
I use 2x3 box tubing to tie front and rear frame boxes together . I cut open floor pan insert tubes then weld every thing up tight . I back half the frame rails witw new ones I make. I use the Chris Alston 4 bar suspension w/ urethane bushings and coil overs. I prefer the reilly motor sports coil over front suspension. The car becomes very rigid.
 
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