440" Small Block

-
Ink -
You asked for opinions. I assumed as Brian did this meant based on experience. We're only trying to help achieve your goal so take it for what it's worth. My apologies if mine differs from his but I think i'm more of a realist, and I've got enough real world experience to be able to say with conviction, it's not that easy.
As for the trannsy - I looked and the 60E is close to 200lbs with a convertor. I'm fairly sure a racey 904 with convertor is closer to 110lbs. I'm estimating adding the GV for another 40lbs. It's the total weight that gets you, and it's my belief that while that back seat 40lbs doesnt make much of a difference, the 40 (seat), plus another 70(trans), plus another 30(fenders), plus another 40(aluminum heads - would be more but that Ritter is heavy), plus another 40(moly over steel cage), plus another 80 (4link vs leaves), plus 100+ (modern disc brakes) all adds up as you make choices and build the car. Add in a huge battery, bigger fuel system, caging, maybe a radio and speakers, street wheels and tires, and the weight goes back up.
Regardless, a street car cannot react like a race car. Looking purely from a suspension point of view the best street car in the world can't 60' nearly as well as a purpose built drag car can. A drag race front suspension and tire combo will frighten you on the street when someone cuts you off in traffic at 60mph. And ask a bracket racer what the front end movement means for them.
What this adds up to is you need a lot more power to get ET from a car I would define as a street car. And when you are saying no boost, it gets much more blurry as to what will be "race" and what needs to be "street". That's my experience of 26 years and building all types of cars, not just one.
 
moper said:
Ink -
You asked for opinions. I assumed as Brian did this meant based on experience. We're only trying to help achieve your goal so take it for what it's worth. My apologies if mine differs from his but I think i'm more of a realist, and I've got enough real world experience to be able to say with conviction, it's not that easy.
As for the trannsy - I looked and the 60E is close to 200lbs with a convertor. I'm fairly sure a racey 904 with convertor is closer to 110lbs. I'm estimating adding the GV for another 40lbs. It's the total weight that gets you, and it's my belief that while that back seat 40lbs doesnt make much of a difference, the 40 (seat), plus another 70(trans), plus another 30(fenders), plus another 40(aluminum heads - would be more but that Ritter is heavy), plus another 40(moly over steel cage), plus another 80 (4link vs leaves), plus 100+ (modern disc brakes) all adds up as you make choices and build the car. Add in a huge battery, bigger fuel system, caging, maybe a radio and speakers, street wheels and tires, and the weight goes back up.
Regardless, a street car cannot react like a race car. Looking purely from a suspension point of view the best street car in the world can't 60' nearly as well as a purpose built drag car can. A drag race front suspension and tire combo will frighten you on the street when someone cuts you off in traffic at 60mph. And ask a bracket racer what the front end movement means for them.
What this adds up to is you need a lot more power to get ET from a car I would define as a street car. And when you are saying no boost, it gets much more blurry as to what will be "race" and what needs to be "street". That's my experience of 26 years and building all types of cars, not just one.
Click to expand...

I've learned that it's OK if we disagree! I'm not always right and I know this. But I do stick to what I said earlier. I also agree with you Moper that it's not easy when you have a street/strip car but it helps when you have alot of power.
The term streetable is a very loose term like ported heads or a blue car....not very descriptive.
I will say that the more power you make, the better chance that Overdrive trannys and add on's won't hold up over time. This I've seen more than once or twice!!

Brian
 
I run mid-high 10,s with a 408(410)sb 360 on pump gas.I have some port work done to my Eddy heads,running 10.5 to 1 piston,worked over 904 with 8 inch,4500 stall.If you get your car on a diet(mines 3000lbs)you should hit your goal with the Brodix heads easy.If not add a 150 shot of the giigle juice.LOL.Maybe the 200R with adapter is in order for intown drives.Good luck.
 
moper said:
Ink -
You asked for opinions. I assumed as Brian did this meant based on experience. We're only trying to help achieve your goal so take it for what it's worth. My apologies if mine differs from his but I think i'm more of a realist, and I've got enough real world experience to be able to say with conviction, it's not that easy.
As for the trannsy - I looked and the 60E is close to 200lbs with a convertor. I'm fairly sure a racey 904 with convertor is closer to 110lbs. I'm estimating adding the GV for another 40lbs. It's the total weight that gets you, and it's my belief that while that back seat 40lbs doesnt make much of a difference, the 40 (seat), plus another 70(trans), plus another 30(fenders), plus another 40(aluminum heads - would be more but that Ritter is heavy), plus another 40(moly over steel cage), plus another 80 (4link vs leaves), plus 100+ (modern disc brakes) all adds up as you make choices and build the car. Add in a huge battery, bigger fuel system, caging, maybe a radio and speakers, street wheels and tires, and the weight goes back up.
Regardless, a street car cannot react like a race car. Looking purely from a suspension point of view the best street car in the world can't 60' nearly as well as a purpose built drag car can. A drag race front suspension and tire combo will frighten you on the street when someone cuts you off in traffic at 60mph. And ask a bracket racer what the front end movement means for them.
What this adds up to is you need a lot more power to get ET from a car I would define as a street car. And when you are saying no boost, it gets much more blurry as to what will be "race" and what needs to be "street". That's my experience of 26 years and building all types of cars, not just one.
Click to expand...
A few things....first and foremost I do value your opinion. And the fact that there disagreements between folks, well, that is what makes the world spin......
Now, I understand the weight issue. HOWEVER, 40 pounds on fenders?? Really?? I have a set of glass fenders in my shed. I also had a set of steel ones. If the glass ones were 40 pounds lighter than they must be the first "anti"-matter object on the planet because they aint no way the factory steel fenders are that heavy. If they weigh 40 pounds for the pair of them that is a lot. But beyond that, I left out a few important details. The car is painted. So putting glass parts on it just is not going to happen. Fact of life.
I understand that compromises are made in the way the car is set up because it is a street car. And this compromises sacrifice performance. That driving a car in traffic with a "drag race" set up front end is a nightmare. BUT, my trips to town are down a 2 lane country road. At any rate what is to stop me from having a second set of shocks and skinny tires for the track??
My trans choice....well it is bought and paid for. Again is it heavier than a 904, sure it is. 4l80e dry, from a guy that builds/ships them is 178 pounds. How much will a 904/gv weigh, assuming the gv weighs 45 pounds or so? 130 pounds? Again I understand the weight issue BUT I am one of those folks that breaks things. I have several gremlins that ride on my shoulders. I am the guy that has an electrical problem that just defies logic. I am the guy that broke an Allison transmission behind a Duramax. My trans buddy used to call me his unofficial tester. I break things, bottom line. Shattered some stuff that in countless thousands of miles of BAJA racing with this one particular trans never broke...yet I did it. My buddy knows that if he does not build something that can damn near withstand a Nuclear bomb blast I am going to break it. When I mentioned to him a 904/gv he damn near peed himself laughing. He was a gv dealer, got tired of dealing with there bs. 4l80e's can withstand upwards of 1500 pounds of torque. I am undecided which way I will be going with the car when/if I ever get back to it. Just exploring things. I do have a HEMI crossram set up for EFI in the garage, that is where the 4l80e came from. But that is a different subject.
Finally, boost.....again, I m just sort of tossing ideas around and this is one of them. Kind of waiting to see how Mad Darts deal shakes out. Bottom line, after all my rambling, is again, I do appreciate your input. However, and this is just a number, if my car only runs 10.7 because of its weight where a lighter car would have run a 10.3 so be it. I am not going to put a gun in my mouth and pull the trigger. Was just more or less thinking out loud....
 
Brutus said:
Why would anyone use a GM 4L80E in anything? but in a Mopar....
Click to expand...
Not a purist here. Tired of "justifying" this over and over and over and over and over....But I will ask, is there a Mopar od unit that can with stand 1000+ pounds of torque?? If so, can it be controlled electronically? So that you can have 2 different shift settings, say one for at the track and another more for the street? Not a big fan of real snappy shifts when I m just out and about with the wife. That IS NOT an implication of what I am building BUT a question??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top