**600hp sbm block limit? Or is it bs!!**

-
I think these myths get started by chevy lovin mopar haters,lol.Good gawd,the stock 360 block was used for racing years and years before the R block was even thought of.

And a turbo adds stress in a different way . It's actually not nearly as hard on the block as making the same h.p with an na setup.
 
pettybludart said:
I really don,t want to see this thread become a pissing match,cause I respect everybodies opinions on any small block built.Wether it,s turbo,supercharged,nitros,E85,alchohol we all can learn from others and their goals,also their mishaps at reaching higher HP numbers.Brian at IMM Engines did post a small block dynoed at 640hp or was it 620?I think the real question is" How long will it last" without block failure.After only 1 day with this thread,already we,ve heard more good than bad:DLets hear some more KILLER SMALL BLOCK stories!=P~
Click to expand...

Okay Scott. I will share a few of my builds.

1. twin turbo 344 c.i. W2 heads T60 turbos (13 psi) .500 inch solid flat tappet 8.5 to 1 compression with tunnel ram and ancient Accel DFI f.i. stock 68 340 block stock 340 steel crank. 150 passes with no breakage = 911RWHP 890 ft/lb. Ran 8.68@168 at LACR (2900 feet) in a 3000 pound car.

2. twin turbo 360 c.i. stock block cast crank stock rods with TRW pistons 7.823 to 1 comp same cam as above with stock proted J heads single carb 750 cfm two T04s (10 psi) and air to air intercooler. 10.33 @ 133 in a 3517 pound Duster. Spun a rod bearing after turbo grenaded and sent garbage throughout oiling system. Full on street car with 2.76 gears.

3. 360 c.i stock block cast crank stock rods with JE forged pistons. 11.17 to 1 with ported J heads and Ultradyne nitrous cam .557/.540 246/240 duration 114 lobe seperation 750 holley 150 shot NOS cheater set on kill (over 200 to the tires) for tune up. Car had a low gear 904 with a 10 inch converter and 4.56 gears 8000 out the back door 10.90 128 @ Vegas in the heat. Weight 3440 pounds. Spun a rod bearing after 500 passes still no block issues. (Car in my avatar) with 10k street miles and yes on the highway with 4.56s. No problems.

We did kill a few head gaskets early on in build number one but it was due to detonation. EVen then no block breakage even though we were hammering on it.
 
Detonation will kill any engine block, I think this is/was the major factor. That is why I run my car on 114. It might be a tad faster on 110 but I'm not risking it. For the measely gain in ET and the .50 cents a gallon more it's just not worth it.
 
7172 duster said:
414 cid 360 MOPAR block ,flat top pistions making 11.42 compression, INDY cylinder heads with minor pocket blending, an old school solid roller super stocker .700 ish lift cam shaft. making 600 hp. 600 tq. , car was getting 1.31 60 ft . times 904 tranny behind a PTC 5,200 verter , rear was 8.75 wth 4.30 gearing

100_1170_00.jpg


100_1167_00.jpg
Click to expand...

That obviously is a deadly combination, works very nicely. Thanks for sharing!
 
some block can be stronger then other all though they came for the same foundry. aka core shifting and then you have the seasoned block that becomes stronger just by it age...?

Then just like rods you can have them prepped to be way stronger then in stock form.

Go at you block with a dye grinder and kill all the flaws in the block will net you some more structure.

Then theres the "hard block" that you can do to add structure like GJ did. Bet that cost a lot less then a R3 block.

Still i'm amased there has been NO cracked blocks,.....that Is, that wasn't created by parts being smacked thru it like a recking ball, or Hammer:violent1:
 
Guitar Jones said:
Detonation will kill any engine block, I think this is/was the major factor. That is why I run my car on 114. It might be a tad faster on 110 but I'm not risking it. For the measely gain in ET and the .50 cents a gallon more it's just not worth it.
Click to expand...


I agree, a little extra money on a higher octane is safe.
 
Anyone ever shot peen thier block,just like a rod? This would have the same beneficial effects.
 
My block was shot peened to get the HardBlock to stick as it had sat unused for many years and was very rusty in the water jackets.
 
And I thought the old tricks were lost for good! Shot peening may have strengthened the block some as well.
 
Shot peened and stress relieved with hard block , .60 over you are border line cylinder wall cracking ,even after sonic check
 
7172 duster said:
Shot peened and stress relieved with hard block , .60 over you are border line cylinder wall cracking ,even after sonic check
Click to expand...

That is why mine was only bored .030. This stuff about the early 360 blocks being the same as 340 blocks is BS in my opinion. I've yet to see one that was safe to bore .060 much less .100 over.
 
Here's something for you to ponder, this is just a pic I downloaded from the net quite some time ago, there may have been other info with it at the time but it's long gone now, just posting for interest sake. Whatever happened to it is anyone's guess, but whatever it was it didn't like it much!!!
 

Attachments

  • bad 360 block.jpg
    111 KB · Views: 1,070
WOW AND THERE IT IS A CRACKED BLOCK!

Cyl bores say it didn't run vary long!!!!
 
pettybludart said:
That block doesn,t even look like it was run.Wouldn,t there be oil in them there cracks?:wack:
Click to expand...

I have seen that picture before but it was a long time ago.

It is weird looking and suspicious with no oil stains in the cracks of that block. Maybe it was ran with no Oil?? Looks like there is oil everywhere else.

Photoshop?? I dont know but by Scott you are onto something!

If it is Real,,, The good on this subject out weighs the bad 100-1 so far.
Still with no real first hand experience of a block breaking at the 600hp level or as a matter of fact at any Power Level! All blocks in this thread were broken due to other parts around them failing in one way or another, I think we can all agree on that.

We have turbodart68 Shattering the Myth with 911HP & 890ft lbs to the TIRES with over 150 Runs down the 1/4 mile & No breaks. That is over 1000 Crank HP and ran hard at that.

Thanks all and keep the posts coming. We can all learn something from this.
 
That cracked block looks run, you can see the ring lines where they bottom out in the cylinders. I'd guessing severly unbalanced block with way too much boost or N2O or dropped off an engine hoist,,,,ouch either way.
 
Mad Dart

Im the shop making the main caps you mentioned. I have a few sets out there running. One is a member on here with a 650HP+ SBM, runs strong all the way to 7500rpm.

Ways to make the SBM survive

Good balance
Light rotating assembly w/quality parts
ARP Studs NO 4 BOLT IN A FACTORY BLOCK
Good main caps
Hard Block Filler
Croy treatment(it does help)
Tune it to run right Detonation is a Block Killer
And pick the right block for the job SONIC TEST

Yess 500hp is a stretch for a factory build engine with cheap rod bolts, heavy cast pistons, heavy low quality unbalanced rods/crank, Low quality valves ect.

The factory stuff is fine, to a point. Mopar(and all the rest) dont put the BEST parts into millions of engines, they just can not afford to. So they use the cheapest stuff that will work for a good long time under "normal" driving conditions. I think this is where all the stories come from is guys using factory stuff to make a full on race engine with no upgrades to them.

You work on a factory rod and yes they can handle a lot of power, but it takes a LOT OF WORK TIME AND MONEY.
 

Attachments

  • girdle contact pad.JPG
    113.4 KB · Views: 1,024
MRL Performance said:
Mad Dart

Im the shop making the main caps you mentioned. I have a few sets out there running. One is a member on here with a 650HP+ SBM, runs strong all the way to 7500rpm.

Ways to make the SBM survive

Good balance
Light rotating assembly w/quality parts
ARP Studs NO 4 BOLT IN A FACTORY BLOCK
Good main caps
Hard Block Filler
Croy treatment(it does help)
Tune it to run right Detonation is a Block Killer
And pick the right block for the job SONIC TEST

Yess 500hp is a stretch for a factory build engine with cheap rod bolts, heavy cast pistons, heavy low quality unbalanced rods/crank, Low quality valves ect.

The factory stuff is fine, to a point. Mopar(and all the rest) dont put the BEST parts into millions of engines, they just can not afford to. So they use the cheapest stuff that will work for a good long time under "normal" driving conditions. I think this is where all the stories come from is guys using factory stuff to make a full on race engine with no upgrades to them.

You work on a factory rod and yes they can handle a lot of power, but it takes a LOT OF WORK TIME AND MONEY.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the Girdle. Yours would be the only one I would use. I have used the Hughes Girdle and we used the secondary method of milling the stock main caps down to get an OK contact area across what was there. But as you know the stock caps then become a weak link from removing material to do this.

Still your Girdle and Caps are way superior to what Hughes offers for the Small Block Mopar.
 
inkjunkie said:
Got a feeling that this is in the same arena as the "Ebay turbos are junk" line.....
Click to expand...

hahahahaa! I hear ya! That pic of the crack is the same place the 5.0 likes to crack. Seems a good thick full length girdle would help. My 2.0 has all the caps and pan rail made into a single "bedplate", pretty cool if someone made that for an SB.
Bare_Bedplate.jpg
 
I did crack a Ford 289 block like the above picture. It was a throw together motor for my old Ranger I had while I was building the good one for it. Was beyond out of balance. Truck spun 3600 or so rpm on the freeway. Does not take much of an imagination to figure out why it happened, but it did run several thousand miles, a good portion of it with the go pedal in the floor board off roading.....
 
Oh Doug,that would kill ANY motor,lol...

Pishta,that is extremely cool. What a beefy girdle. I wonder if one could simply cut off the bottom 4-5 inches of a spare block and machine it flat. Then bolt it up as a girdle?...
 
needsaresto said:
Oh Doug,that would kill ANY motor,lol...

Pishta,that is extremely cool. What a beefy girdle. I wonder if one could simply cut off the bottom 4-5 inches of a spare block and machine it flat. Then bolt it up as a girdle?...
Click to expand...

Main hurdle after that would be the K Frame...... It would smack all of them pretty good once you figured out how to get an oil pan on it.
 
Different pan, shallow like a B/RB. Suppose someone could weld something up with a cast AL pan and AL main caps. A little ribbing here and there, connecting the caps to the cast pan walls..Just thinking out loud. Once everything is tied in, make everything beefier. That or just mill the entire thing out of a single piece of 5" thick AL for a CNC class final project, probably the only way someone could afford the mill time.
 
I think it might work,but the $$ factor isnt going to allow little ole me to play and find out,lol! It would have the added bonus of moving the oil away from the crank..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top