64 valiant 4-door Street legal drift car

[James-Anthony L Holbrooks]

So I have a 64 valiant 4-door that I'm planning on turning into a turbo 323 (bored 318) drift car, but my biggest question is, how would I go about getting better suspension goodies? So far the only things I've seen so far are full K-memeber swaps and I'm not exactly equipped to dig THAT far yet, I have the knowledge to, just not the tools due to some shitty circumstances. So basically, is there a way to upgrade my suspension enough to handle getting sideways without doing a full k-member? If so who makes the parts?

 

[RustyRatRod]

So I have a 64 valiant 4-door that I'm planning on turning into a turbo 323 (bored 318) drift car, but my biggest question is, how would I go about getting better suspension goodies? So far the only things I've seen so far are full K-memeber swaps and I'm not exactly equipped to dig THAT far yet, I have the knowledge to, just not the tools due to some shitty circumstances. So basically, is there a way to upgrade my suspension enough to handle getting sideways without doing a full k-member? If so who makes the parts?

A properly set up stock suspension with some nice bolt ones is perfectly capable.

 

[Kern Dog]

The early A has a solid platform but the stock K member has several wide open areas and will need to be heavily reinforced. You'll want either power steering or a 16 to 1 manual steering box. Drift cars need LOTs of caster so you'll need to look at aftermarket upper control arms.

 

[James-Anthony L Holbrooks]

The early A has a solid platform but the stock K member has several wide open areas and will need to be heavily reinforced. You'll want either power steering or a 16 to 1 manual steering box. Drift cars need LOTs of caster so you'll need to look at aftermarket upper control arms.

Kinda figured that, was just kinda looking for somthing temporary before I get all the tools I need to do a full k-member swap so I can get some coilovers up there. Probably gonna do coilovers out back too by that time.

A properly set up stock suspension with some nice bolt ones is perfectly capable.

That may work for now, I just need somthin with enough angle to hold a decent slide and will last long enough until I get a little bet better equipment in the shop.

 

[Kern Dog]

There has been NO proof that the coil over suspension systems offer any advantage over a well prepared, stock based torsion bar system.
People fall for the hype, thinking that since the torsion bars are old technology that the new coil over idea is better. It isn't.
Torsion bar suspensions are tougher and far more durable. The coil over stuff moves weight forward and UP, exactly opposite of what makes for better weight distribution.
I've known a few guys that did the conversions. Two of them admitted that it wasn't worth the money. One guy has a RMS setup and has had to replace Heim joints twice in 10,000 miles. GREAT.

 

[pishta]

How about the addition of a panhard rod on the back axle to keep it out of the fenders? Not sure if they offer any help to leaf spring rears but every A I owned has rubbed a tire once or twice.

founds some vid of @autoxcuda and his Hotchkis TVS suspension. Check the center tread of the tire and its deflection. Not sure if its the sidewall flexing or the leafs moving.

 

[autoxcuda]

How about the addition of a panhard rod on the back axle to keep it out of the fenders? Not sure if they offer any help to leaf spring rears but every A I owned has rubbed a tire once or twice.
View attachment 1715729749

founds some vid of @autoxcuda and his Hotchkis TVS suspension. Check the center tread of the tire and its deflection. Not sure if its the sidewall flexing or the leafs moving.

sidewall flex. Look at the rim edge then the tire bulge.

but im sure the leaf give some too. Sometimes that’s not the end of the world. Everything flex’s some.

on the circle track car I worked on we had two cars built by same place. One leaf spring one 4 link with J-bar (short panhard bar). Well, they were very close to same lap times. But driver said the link car was less forgiving to drive. We won track championships both with cars.

 

[autoxcuda]

How about the addition of a panhard rod on the back axle to keep it out of the fenders? Not sure if they offer any help to leaf spring rears but every A I owned has rubbed a tire once or twice.
View attachment 1715729749

founds some vid of @autoxcuda and his Hotchkis TVS suspension. Check the center tread of the tire and its deflection. Not sure if its the sidewall flexing or the leafs moving.

Also notice the rear leaf eye. See how it’s free to slide side to side. That keeps the panhard bar from putting rear in a bind.

They did that with 1970 SCCA trans am mopars.

but that looks like an A-body? The Yellow Ron Grable 68 Dart?

 

[James-Anthony L Holbrooks]

There has been NO proof that the coil over suspension systems offer any advantage over a well prepared, stock based torsion bar system.
People fall for the hype, thinking that since the torsion bars are old technology that the new coil over idea is better. It isn't.
Torsion bar suspensions are tougher and far more durable. The coil over stuff moves weight forward and UP, exactly opposite of what makes for better weight distribution.
I've known a few guys that did the conversions. Two of them admitted that it wasn't worth the money. One guy has a RMS setup and has had to replace Heim joints twice in 10,000 miles. GREAT.

Alright, I'll stick with torsion bars then, if it's truly better it'll probably save me both time and money doing it that way. Thanks for the advice.

 

[James-Anthony L Holbrooks]

Also notice the rear leaf eye. See how it’s free to slide side to side. That keeps the panhard bar from putting rear in a bind.

They did that with 1970 SCCA trans am mopars.

but that looks like an A-body? The Yellow Ron Grable 68 Dart?

I'll be keeping this in mind

 

[Ricks70Duster340]

Alright, I'll stick with torsion bars then, if it's truly better it'll probably save me both time and money doing it that way. Thanks for the advice.

Torsion bar suspension was far ahead of the competition, and is still a great feat of engineering. With a little tweaking, it continues to be great in the 21st century!

 

[KosmicKuda]

How about the addition of a panhard rod on the back axle to keep it out of the fenders? Not sure if they offer any help to leaf spring rears but every A I owned has rubbed a tire once or twice.
View attachment 1715729749

founds some vid of @autoxcuda and his Hotchkis TVS suspension. Check the center tread of the tire and its deflection. Not sure if its the sidewall flexing or the leafs moving.

I was thinking the same thing, a panhard bar in the rear.
High spring rate leafs with close to zero installed arch.
Big torsion bars.
Good shocks.
Beefed K.
Lowered.
May as well use C body tie rods.

Aftermarket coil overs are good on the competition (mustangs, camaros) because they need it! A typical Mopar has much better geometry. Got a ride in a 64 Plymouth with front and rear setups. Granted he had a full load of Mopar guys inside but wasn't impressed. I'll have to get another ride with fewer passengers when I see him at Carlisle this year.

Steve, you must hang around with Tarozzi.

 

[autoxcuda]

I was thinking the same thing, a panhard bar in the rear.
High spring rate leafs with close to zero installed arch.
Big torsion bars.
Good shocks.
Beefed K.
Lowered.
May as well use C body tie rods.

Aftermarket coil overs are good on the competition (mustangs, camaros) because they need it! A typical Mopar has much better geometry. Got a ride in a 64 Plymouth with front and rear setups. Granted he had a full load of Mopar guys inside but wasn't impressed. I'll have to get another ride wgen I see him at Carlisle this year.

Steve, you must hang around with Tarozzi.

I’ve got a chance to meet with him quite a few times. Great guy.

Have you talked with him?

 

[shittyslant6]

Well, a typical easy drift car thing is getting different spindles and knuckles in order to get more angle. I can GUARANTEE you that nobody makes drift knuckles and suspension for a 64' valiant. you might be able to modify a road race suspension setup to get more angle if anyone make one of those. (probably dont)
Also, if you are just learning, i doubt that a valiant is a good place to start learning how to drift.
if you are already good at drifting, have fun, i have no advice to give.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I’ve got a chance to meet with him quite a few times. Great guy.
Have you talked with him?

No, I'm kind of a Chrysler history buff. (hate to use that word)
I bought his book hoping for some inside info on the 68 Hemi cars and others but there was not much there. His time at Chrysler was not long. The 68 cars were just another assignment to him. He did develop the SS springs among other things. He also did the 70 Trans Am cars and some Nascar. Thought it was funny that he later used Chrysler suspension parts in the TA Javelins. The book is more of a biography of his life. I think he has very little brand loyalty, it was just another job.

I wonder what input he could offer on a Mopar drift car.

 

[James-Anthony L Holbrooks]

No, I'm kind of a Chrysler history buff. (hate to use that word)
I bought his book hoping for some inside info on the 68 Hemi cars and others but there was not much there. His time at Chrysler was not long. The 68 cars were just another assignment to him. He did develop the SS springs among other things. He also did the 70 Trans Am cars and some Nascar. Thought it was funny that he later used Chrysler suspension parts in the TA Javelins. The book is more of a biography of his life. I think he has very little brand loyalty, it was just another job.

I wonder what input he could offer on a Mopar drift car.

Not gonna lie, it would be really cool to have the advice of a legend like that on this build.

 

[TT5.9mag]

@James-Anthony L Holbrooks look up Tony Angelos drift Cuda. He did a lot of what you want to do. Drifting and handling are two completely different worlds and making a car “handle” sideways is much different than getting one to stick and be planted in a corner. All of the aftermarket stuff you’ll find is geared towards the latter and is questionable as to it being better than a stock torsion bar set up. But drifting brings a whole new set of circumstances.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Steering angle (lots of it), Caster, camber, and a lot of guys use almost zero Ackerman angle, so custom spindles are probably required.