65 A Bodie fuel & temp gauge problems

-
skidshoe93

skidshoe93

Active Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
28
Reaction score
5
Location
beaverton,ore
Ok 1st off I am not electrical guy & this is driving me crazy! Has anyone had problems with fuel & temp gauges not functioning? Fuel & temp gauge started to peg (has new fuel sending U) & then just bottomed out, I had an extra instrument cluster which I sent off for a butt load of $ they did a great job on refurbishing it but now the fuel gauge pegs but goes down with key off & temp doesn't move at all (came with new sensor). If I remove wire at fuel tank (is wire supposed to have power?) gauge still pegs with key on & if I remove wire & grounded it still pegs & Yes, it's grounded with a factory strap. Harness under dash good shape cars always been garaged. Sure would appreciate some advice. Thanks
 
Sounds like the cluster voltage regulator is bad.
 
IMG_0962.jpeg
 
Let's be clear..........fuel ga pegs with sender DIS connected?

You may HAVE to learn some electrical

1...Do you have a factory service manual? If not download the closest thing over at MyMopar.com, free. Also there, in zip form, are two page aftermarket diagrams which are drawn differently than OEM, and are sometimes easier to follow. They are not as detailed, omit some options, and do not correctly document connectors. But they ARE sometimes useful

2...The IVR for these cars is INSIDE the fuel gauge so BE CAREFUL and do not power it up more than a few seconds to test.

3...This page may help, it's about replacing the factory internal IVR with one similar to what the later cars use

RTE Gauge Faq - rte

www.rt-eng.com www.rt-eng.com

4...Does the temp move if you ground the temp sender wire and turn on the key?

===============================

I'm guessing the cluster will have to come out

First though, troubleshoot for a grounded (shorted) fuel sender wire. First, get into the left kick panel and separate the rear harness. That is the most likely stretch of cable that would short. Turn on the key, see if the gauge still pegs. Go back to the tank and with key off, apply an ohmeter / continuity checker to the sender wire. Should be open now. If not, and with the connector separated, somewhere it is shorted. Check the grommet through into the trunk, and check the area where the harness goes past the rear seat. If not, check the cable through the rocker panel area. Sharp metal, screws, etc.
 
Last edited:
Gauges are not that complicated, follow the path.

The key switch on has TWO power outputs............accessory, and "ignition run." That is, continuous outputs

The start output and the brown IGN2 ballast bypass are only hot in "start."

So all power that dies when off is either from ACC or "run."

So the key feeds switched 12V "ignition run" power to the cluster, and that power runs the oil lamp, gauges, etc. That power feeds to the IVR terminal of the fuel gauge, and do NOT ask me why Mopar just HAD to build it inside the gauge!!!

The regulated gauge power leaves the IVR, and connects to the fuel gauge internally, then also branches off to a terminal on the back of the gauge. This is the IVR output which jumpers over to the oil and temp gauge and powers them.

From this point all three gauges (not the ammeter) work the same. The IVR power feeds to one terminal of each gauge, through the gauge, and out on the respective sender terminals. From there the sender wires go to the senders and to ground. The temp and oil senders go out through the bulkhead connector, and the fuel gauge goes down to the left kick panel, connects to the rear harness, and on back to the tank sender, and as you know, the sender must be grounded due to tank rust etc, and a poor ground between sender/ tank/ and body.

It is just a simple series circuit: key---to IVR---through gauge---out sender wire---to sender--to ground.
 
67Dart273 said:
Let's be clear..........fuel ga pegs with sender DIS connected?

You may HAVE to learn some electrical

1...Do you have a factory service manual? If not download the closest thing over at MyMopar.com, free. Also there, in zip form, are two page aftermarket diagrams which are drawn differently than OEM, and are sometimes easier to follow. They are not as detailed, omit some options, and do not correctly document connectors. But they ARE sometimes useful

2...The IVR for these cars is INSIDE the fuel gauge so BE CAREFUL and do not power it up more than a few seconds to test.

3...This page may help, it's about replacing the factory internal IVR with one similar to what the later cars use

RTE Gauge Faq - rte

www.rt-eng.com www.rt-eng.com

4...Does the temp move if you ground the temp sender wire and turn on the key?

===============================

I'm guessing the cluster will have to come out

First though, troubleshoot for a grounded (shorted) fuel sender wire. First, get into the left kick panel and separate the rear harness. That is the most likely stretch of cable that would short. Turn on the key, see if the gauge still pegs. Go back to the tank and with key off, apply an ohmeter / continuity checker to the sender wire. Should be open now. If not, and with the connector separated, somewhere it is shorted. Check the grommet through into the trunk, and check the area where the harness goes past the rear seat. If not, check the cable through the rocker panel area. Sharp metal, screws, etc.
Click to expand...
The IVR on my 65 Valiant plugged into the back of the cluster. The one on the 64 I have now is in the fuel gauge like you describe.
 
^^Thanks Rob......I have forgotten what year. Ralley gauge clusters always have the IVR internal to the fuel gauge.^^
 
Hey just wanna say thank you to everyone who responded to my thread. And to 67 273 Dart thanks for all the good suggestions I'll start there & update in few days & yes the temp gauge pegs if grounded but now fuel doesn't move I'm sure that's not good here's a pic of cluster upon return from builder

IMG_1409.JPG


IMG_1408.JPG


IMG_0773.jpg
 
img_1409-jpg.jpg


As near as I can tell the IVR is tied in correctly. Read the page link I posted, and find out if they have properly isolated/ disabled the original internal limiter.

The very top terminal of the fuel, with the one red wire, follow that trace and notice that it goes to the temp gauge. That is the IVR output that originally came out of the fuel and jumpered over. Now they are using that terminal for the output of the new IVR, and to feed regulated power TO both fuel and temp gauges.

The fuel terminal at bottom left, which also has a trace to the board connector, is the switched 12V coming to the cluster from the key. The board/ cluster MUST be grounded.

The bottom right connnector of the fuel gauge, going to the board harness connector, is the sender terminal.

Over on the temp, the LEFT terminal, going to the harness connector, is your sender terminal

Hook a pigtail wire to any ground point on the cluster and bolt that either to your column support, or to the dash frame to insure a good cluster ground. You can feed power to the terminal I mentioned, and apply a resistor to the sender terminal, and test each gauge, actually for accuracy.

c-3826-jpg.jpg
 
Things to do while it is out:

Loosen/ tighten all screws to "scrub" the copper clean, or remove them and use an eraser or some very fine sandpaper, like 500g, as well as the lamp socket terminals. Examine and clean lamp sockets, bend the little contact ears for tight contact. Loosen/ tighten the stud nuts of the gauges for same reason.

Examine the board connector pins for any looseness and or corrosion. Solder them if any question as to contact.

On that note, you should consider getting some rosin flux, either liquid or paste, for soldering. DO NOT use paste flux bought from a welding or plumbing store, it is almost always acid. I've bought paste flux on ebay called SIR which does not seem too bad. Always use radio/ electronics rosin core solder and not acid core plumbing solder. I still like to use lead solder instead of "lead free." It is higher temp, and most of it which you can access will be for plumbing.
 
It looks like someone modded it for a later style IVR. That must not be a 65 Valiant, because my 65 Valiant had the IVR that plugged into the cluster from the factory. That one appears to be like Del said with the IVR being integral to the fuel gauge, but somewhere down the line someone put that plug in IVR on it. Probably because the one in the fuel gauge failed.
 
This is worded as a question rather than a statement. Didn't the 1965 Dart have the IVR in the fuel gauge and the 1965 Valiant have the IVR mounted outside the gauge?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top