65 Barracuda 318 Rebuild, Cam, timing, lifters maybe a kit?

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C130 Chief said:
pretty decent cheap heads that will give you a compression boost
Click to expand...
A boost over the 1968up open chamber smoggers(2843675s), but not over his current 273(2465315s) heads, nor over the 67 heads (2658920s).
It's just not that big a deal to mod an aluminum intake to work with those older bolt angles. I think there is even a how-to thread here on FABO.
 
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looks to me like the 302's would be a good choice unless he is going to change pistons later they claim to be 60 cc but are around 63-64 cc also but can be shaved down to 57
problem is they are still open chamber- so 915's cut to under 60 cc flow a lot more however the 302 with the 318 sized ports has more velocity- still no quench
EQ head is about the same 62 CC as Edelbrock but iron
IDK about Indy but I think they were 63 cc last time I fought with them
some more cam bs to think about
some recommended the stock 340 268/ 276 cam (in MOPAR Degrees) this cam is basically 280-290 in Summit/ Elgin/ Crane/ Edelbrock degrees
while only having 429/444 lift and 208/214 @.050 (speed pro gets it up to 210/220 and some bump the intake lift to 445 or 450
I do not have all my old data handy but I do show the DC 260 cam actually measured 261 @.008
what this means is that the shortest Engle .904 cam- (that I know of) is too big just like comp XE274HL)

here's the data
430/450 260/268/==430 DC 260 measured 261 @.008 with cam doc 212 @.050 115@200 42@275
44 overlap 221/228 110 LCA P4452759 LA 1200-5000 mild comp -perf RV
470" .313" 260° 214° 127° K-54HYD .. 260 Engle
there was also a 260/260 Direct Connection Cam

note the DC 260 is open 42 degrees above .275 lift for a 260 Mopar degree cam wheras Mike Jones Special
458 305 246 @.008 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
so jones is 14 Mopar degrees shorter on the seat- close to stock but is 50% bigger where it counts
IDK about details of Lunati, Howard, Bullet etc
 
Wyrmrider said:
looks to me like the 302's would be a good choice unless he is going to change pistons later they claim to be 60 cc but are around 63-64 cc also but can be shaved down to 57
problem is they are still open chamber- so 915's cut to under 60 cc flow a lot more however the 302 with the 318 sized ports has more velocity- still no quench
EQ head is about the same 62 CC as Edelbrock but iron
IDK about Indy but I think they were 63 cc last time I fought with them
some more cam bs to think about
some recommended the stock 340 268/ 276 cam (in MOPAR Degrees) this cam is basically 280-290 in Summit/ Elgin/ Crane/ Edelbrock degrees
while only having 429/444 lift and 208/214 @.050 (speed pro gets it up to 210/220 and some bump the intake lift to 445 or 450
I do not have all my old data handy but I do show the DC 260 cam actually measured 261 @.008
what this means is that the shortest Engle .904 cam- (that I know of) is too big just like comp XE274HL)

here's the data
430/450 260/268/==430 DC 260 measured 261 @.008 with cam doc 212 @.050 115@200 42@275
44 overlap 221/228 110 LCA P4452759 LA 1200-5000 mild comp -perf RV
470" .313" 260° 214° 127° K-54HYD .. 260 Engle
there was also a 260/260 Direct Connection Cam

note the DC 260 is open 42 degrees above .275 lift for a 260 Mopar degree cam wheras Mike Jones Special
458 305 246 @.008 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
so jones is 14 Mopar degrees shorter on the seat- close to stock but is 50% bigger where it counts
IDK about details of Lunati, Howard, Bullet etc
Click to expand...
302's are closed chamber
 
#302's and 178's,234 and 920.
302 heads.jpg
020.JPG
View attachment 1715238426 View attachment 1715238427
 
Has anyone here milled 302 heads before?? And know the amount shaved per 1cc? I have read that on open chambers such as 360 heads its approximately. 0048 or .005 for 1 cc it has to more for smaller chambers I just cant find an exact number.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Those look good. Mine are 63 without milling unless I did something wrong lol. And those look smaller than mine.
Click to expand...
Maybe down to 57. I can't remember and I don't think I cc'd them after they were milled. With the Egge pistons and a thin gasket it was 9.6/1 static.
 
toolmanmike said:
Maybe down to 57. I can't remember and I don't think I cc'd them after they were milled. With the Egge pistons and a thin gasket it was 9.6/1 static.
Click to expand...
Yea I bet so. 9.6 is where I want to be with my 318 I dont think I'm gonna make it on my budget tho. But ideally that is the goal. Maybe someday I will be able to afford to do it right. With .03 shaved did you have to mill the intake and or change pushrods?
 
dartfreak75 said:
Yea I bet so. 9.6 is where I want to be with my 318 I dont think I'm gonna make it on my budget tho. But ideally that is the goal. Maybe someday I will be able to afford to do it right. With .03 shaved did you have to mill the intake and or change pushrods?
Click to expand...
Both. took .020 off the intake and got different pushrods. I shimmed the rocker shafts too. It's in my thread if you want to go through it.
 
dartfreak75 said:
With .03 shaved did you have to mill the intake and or change pushrods?
Click to expand...

I don't know about toolman, but I've shaved small block heads lots of times .040 and never shaved an intake or changed push rods.
 
toolmanmike said:
Both. took .020 off the intake and got different pushrods. I shimmed the rocker shafts too. It's in my thread if you want to go through it.
Click to expand...
I got the link I will go thru tomorrow when i have more time and not so sleepy lol
 
Wyrmrider said:
looks to me like the 302's would be a good choice unless he is going to change pistons later they claim to be 60 cc but are around 63-64 cc also but can be shaved down to 57
problem is they are still open chamber- so 915's cut to under 60 cc flow a lot more however the 302 with the 318 sized ports has more velocity- still no quench
EQ head is about the same 62 CC as Edelbrock but iron
IDK about Indy but I think they were 63 cc last time I fought with them
some more cam bs to think about
some recommended the stock 340 268/ 276 cam (in MOPAR Degrees) this cam is basically 280-290 in Summit/ Elgin/ Crane/ Edelbrock degrees
while only having 429/444 lift and 208/214 @.050 (speed pro gets it up to 210/220 and some bump the intake lift to 445 or 450
I do not have all my old data handy but I do show the DC 260 cam actually measured 261 @.008
what this means is that the shortest Engle .904 cam- (that I know of) is too big just like comp XE274HL)

here's the data
430/450 260/268/==430 DC 260 measured 261 @.008 with cam doc 212 @.050 115@200 42@275
44 overlap 221/228 110 LCA P4452759 LA 1200-5000 mild comp -perf RV
470" .313" 260° 214° 127° K-54HYD .. 260 Engle
there was also a 260/260 Direct Connection Cam

note the DC 260 is open 42 degrees above .275 lift for a 260 Mopar degree cam wheras Mike Jones Special
458 305 246 @.008 [email protected] [email protected] [email protected]
so jones is 14 Mopar degrees shorter on the seat- close to stock but is 50% bigger where it counts
IDK about details of Lunati, Howard, Bullet etc
Click to expand...
Wyrm I love your data, but it's like eating stew with only a couple of pieces of meat; all jumbled up, with the morsels hiding in there somewhere. I know I ain't the brightest bulb in the pkg but I really need help figuring this out.lemmee try;

>DC260;................. 260/268/110,.430/.450 lift,212 @.050,
measured 261 @.008, [email protected],[email protected]................................. >[email protected]
>P4452759;...........***/***/110,44 overlap, 221/228, .............. >xx@275
>260 Engle;............. 260/***/***,.470/.*** lift, 214/*** @.050, >[email protected]
(Unknown data;127° K-54HYD).
>Mike Jones Special; 246/***/***, .458/.*** lift, 202/*** @.050
measured [email protected],64@275.................................................... >[email protected]
(unknown data 305)

It took me over an hour to recompile your data and I still don't know if it's 100%
Have mercy on me
 
318willrun said:
I don't know about toolman, but I've shaved small block heads lots of times .040 and never shaved an intake or changed push rods.
Click to expand...
I may try it if I can get down to 57 cc that is 1 per .005. So .005x6=.03. With a .028 mr gasket head gaskets will put be at 9.5cr that is pretty darn good for a street combo.
 
It may be cheaper and easier to do it with ICA, watch the Dcr, that's more important that Scr.
ICA of 56* and 900ft
Static compression ratio of 9.3:1.
Effective stroke is 2.74 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.86:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 155.03 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 122
ICA of 60* and 900ft
Static compression ratio of 9.5:1.
Effective stroke is 2.66 inches.
Your dynamic compression ratio is 7.82:1 .
Your dynamic cranking pressure is 153.97 PSI.
V/P (Volume to Pressure Index) is 118
This is a 4* difference in ICA, so just by selecting a fast-ramp cam you can end up at the same pressure/Dcr
but look at the VPs!
The shorter ICA makes 4 points more VP; winner!

But if you are starting from 8.5, and going to 9.5; then no contest, shave them,
 
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The 256 @.006 cams intake closed is around 54 ABDC The factory cams are longer below .006 the aftermarket well YMMV DC is shorter jones is way shorter
My database is in the same order
first lift either for intake lobe, or for both lobes single pattern or for both if given
then sometimes lobe lift- usually in (perens)
then adv duration and adv timing and adv overlap if I have it (this is what's important but hard to compare)
then duration at .050 and .050 timing and overlap if I have it (useful if all cams had the same intensity- but they don't)
then duration at .200 (and more) which sorta tells flow where piston is really sucking
but you can see on the Jones vs DC 260 comparison that duration at higher lifts can vary considerably/ I pulled .275 because lots of the short cams do not show or show much at .300 and you do not want a sharp nose just to give lift bragging rights
on the custom grinds I just show the intake because the exhaust will depend on... as will the timings (lca) ICL
so consider actual seat duration for timing and DCL - and some cams are really long below the adv duration given
and consider the area under the curve- as you can see from the .75 example there are BIG differences in Area (and here .841 cams loose) - which I see you picked up on
These low compression builds are a challenge to get torque out of and at altitude yet
and I know you can get HP out of them by reving them up like we used to do in stock classes- but NOT street friendly at all
remember most .904 cams are not as radical lobe as a maxed out chevy lobe- they do not have to be-- ask your camgrinder
that Jones grind is actually quite easy on the valvtrain- it is radically asymetrical (so is centerline comparable?)
thanks for the reminder on the 02 head I must have been thinking of the late 360 head
cheers
 
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