65 Dart gas tank leak

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gtmopar

gtmopar

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I know I've been asking a bunch of questions that I should know but I'm running into stuff I've never had issues with before. The area on my gas tank where the pickup outlet is located on the rear of the tank is leaking around the large stamped area. Should I try to JB weld it or is there another fix aside from dropping the tank and tig welding it up. And to boot my supposably 130 gph fuel pump literally is sucking ***! The stock mechanical pump worked better. I understand that they are a pushing pump and not sucking but even after sucking it through with my shop vac it was shitty at best. Maybe I just got a bad one. My luck lately is shitty with this car.
 
Are you sure it's not the seal between the pickup and tank? Have you had the pickup out?
 
Jim Lusk said:
Are you sure it's not the seal between the pickup and tank? Have you had the pickup out?
Click to expand...

That was my thought as well. If you had the pickup out and used the new lock ring, that might be your issue, as well as a bad seal.. I had to use the original lock ring to get mine to seal.
 
Ditto on the lock ring. The ones that come with a new sender are not thick enough and cause a leak. If you don't re-use your old one, most people have to use 2 rubber gaskets and/or bend the tabs in.

I don't follow your issues on the electric fuel pump. Photos of where it is installed and description of the plumbing and pressure regulation would help us comment. I have an electric EFI type pump on 2 60's Mopars with no issues.
 
I've never had the sender out. How does that pickup come out and are there gaskets available? Do you just twist that ring and the pickup comes out? Sorry for my ignorance I've never had it out. I can see it leaking around the perimeter of that large outer ring. Is it like a half twist setup that can be tightened?
 
A new gasket is ~$3. I think you can get just that at rockauto or ebay. If your sender isn't working (common after 30 yrs), a new sender is ~$45 on ebay and comes w/ a new gasket.

You might need to roll that into your fuel pump issues, since you can get senders w/ a 3/8" supply tube and a 1/4" return tube. If an EFI-type electric pump, you need a return to the tank.

Many posts here on all of the above if you search.
 
The lock-ring is removed using a brass drift and small hammer. Turn ring by tapping on the lugs. Brass is used to help avoid sparks.
 
Looks like you need to kill multiple birds with one stone.

Tank: Repair :( New :\ New upgrade :)

Pickup: Fabricate your own, buy new upgrade pickup, get the upgrade with the tank.

Pump: You really need to get your fuel system right before you look to blaming the pump. Ask yourself...

1. Does this pump exceed your fuel needs? Yes, you don't want to buy a fuel pump that just makes it. You want some in reserve.

2. What size is my line from the tank to the pump? 3/8" min, 1/2" is better. It should at least be the size of the inlet on the pump.

3. What pre pump filter are you running? WHat micron? What size are the inlet outlet of this filter?

4. WHat post pump filter are you running? What micron? What size is the inlet/outlet?

5. Depending on the pump you may or may not REQUIRE a return line however it is best to run one.


When mine began leaking from the front of the tank, perhaps around the pickup (which was too small anyway) I went with a new tank which included a new sending unit and pickup with a return fitting as well.


I'd get a new tank whether stock or an upgrade. And work your way through the rest of the checklist after that.

Here's mine.
 

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roccodart440 said:
Looks like you need to kill multiple birds with one stone.

Tank: Repair :( New :\ New upgrade :)

Pickup: Fabricate your own, buy new upgrade pickup, get the upgrade with the tank.

Pump: You really need to get your fuel system right before you look to blaming the pump. Ask yourself...

1. Does this pump exceed your fuel needs? Yes, you don't want to buy a fuel pump that just makes it. You want some in reserve.

2. What size is my line from the tank to the pump? 3/8" min, 1/2" is better. It should at least be the size of the inlet on the pump.

3. What pre pump filter are you running? WHat micron? What size are the inlet outlet of this filter?

4. WHat post pump filter are you running? What micron? What size is the inlet/outlet?

5. Depending on the pump you may or may not REQUIRE a return line however it is best to run one.


When mine began leaking from the front of the tank, perhaps around the pickup (which was too small anyway) I went with a new tank which included a new sending unit and pickup with a return fitting as well.


I'd get a new tank whether stock or an upgrade. And work your way through the rest of the checklist after that.

Here's mine.
Click to expand...

A couple of questions, is your fuel outlet on the bottom of your tank and where did you get your tank? My car is a 65 so there is very limited supply of parts available for that year. I'm thinking if I can't find a new tank I'll modify that one. I have a 20 gallon fuel cell in my other dart but it took major fabrication to recess that tank in the trunk. I may just move the outlet to the bottom of the tank and be done .
 
Not sure why you think you need the outlet at the bottom of the tank. The sender sock already sits on the floor of the tank. The main related issue is that it is best to put the pickup in a sump so that the pump doesn't suck air when the fuel is low and sloshes around. Next best thing is a surge pot surrounding the pickup.

The Dart tank is already a bit like that, with the recess around the spare tire forming a wall. It should be much more immune to sloshing than the wide, shallow tank in my 65 Newport. When I get low on fuel there and stop suddenly, I can hear my EFI pump chatter as it sucks air and the engine stumbles.
 
The problem being is the outlet of the pickup is almost at the top of the tank and the pickup goes up first about 6 inches then follows the contour of the frame down to where I have the pump mounted. The pump looses its prime because it flows back down the pickup and doesn't have enough suction to pull it back up. If I put an outlet at the bottom of the tank then I will have gravity keeping the pump primed. Am I seeing something wrong here? With the mechanical pump it worked fine but this roller motor doesn't have provisions for that. The mechanical pumps suck/pull the fuel out of the tank and the electric I have pushes the fuel rather than suck, correct?
 
gtmopar said:
A couple of questions, is your fuel outlet on the bottom of your tank and where did you get your tank?

Yes and Hot Rod City Garage. Bolt in.
Click to expand...

BillGrissom said:
The main related issue is that it is best to put the pickup in a sump so that the pump doesn't suck air when the fuel is low and sloshes around. Next best thing is a surge pot surrounding the pickup.

Hot Rod Cities tanks are internally baffled.
Click to expand...


gtmopar said:
The problem being is the outlet of the pickup is almost at the top of the tank and the pickup goes up first about 6 inches then follows the contour of the frame down to where I have the pump mounted. The mechanical pumps suck/pull the fuel out of the tank and the electric I have pushes the fuel rather than suck, correct?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't get too carried away with the push pull deal and electric pumps. Try bench testing one sometime. It's not as extreme as you'd think. It's more about the restriction on the inlet side.
 
gtmopar said:
... The pump looses its prime because it flows back down the pickup and doesn't have enough suction to pull it back up. If I put an outlet at the bottom of the tank then I will have gravity keeping the pump primed. Am I seeing something wrong here? ...
Click to expand...
Yes, wrong. It doesn't matter that the tube goes up and down. As long as no air gets in the system, it will not "lose its prime". What matters is that the pump is below the level of the fuel. Read about "siphon pump" (wikipedia, etc), a concept used for thousands of years. Test it. Remove the hose from the inlet to your pump and you should see fuel pouring into a pan. If it doesn't come out strongly, you have a restriction like a plugged tube or junk on the pickup sock. Most EFI pumps, like the Walbro external can draw fuel up > 5 ft with no problem, though if it was mounted above the fuel level you might have issues keeping it primed if there was an air leak.
 
So I'm contemplating replacing the pickup in the tank for several reasons but most of the ones I've found have a return line port on the pickup. Being that I'm running an electric pump, should I run a return line off that pump? This project has been a real pain.i fixed the leak but the pickup is loose as hell and the sending unit is shot. Anyone know a good source for these? Believe its a 3/8 pickup because its a V8 but the ones I've found say 63-76 which I find hard to believe they are all the same. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks guys
 
That picture gave me an idea (UH-OH!!) Wouldn't it solve both of your problems if you could find an in-tank pump that would fit through the hole where the sender/pickup goes? You'd need to run the power wire through the plate alongside the sender wire with a similar pass through fitting. Maybe a small sump in the bottom of the tank where the pump could sit?? Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

BC
 
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