67 GTS 4-Speed: Daily Summer Driver

[carfreak6970]

This past weekend I was in the area for a wedding so I got a little time to work on the GTS. Got the passenger side keepers and retainers installed

Still have to do the drivers side. Then its on to more inspection and hopefully getting it back together.

 

[carfreak6970]

I was back at it this past weekend. I was able to get all the retainers and locks changed out on both sides. I cleaned both rocker shaft assemblies and insured the oil drain holes were oriented properly. I Installed all the push rods and rotated the engine to make sure everything worked properly

In this process I noticed the number 3 spark plugs ground strap was contacting the electrode, so I fixed that. Also noticed tightening the number 7 spark plug is impossible with the steering gear... So I may have a sacrifice a wench and cut/weld up a tool that will make it possible to do.

But to rotate the engine I removed the fan, and figured since that is already off, it wasnt too much more to replace the radiator with a 4 row copper one from OER. The top tank is significantly bigger than the 2 row I removed (which was from a 383 charger, so I figured it should work in this application, but it didnt). So hopefully that helps with my over heating issue I have always had with this car.

I also took a measurement from the front of the water pump pulley and the back side of the radiator core and saw I have just over 3", which means I should be able to fit the Hayden 2947 fan clutch, with one of the clutch fans I have laying around. Also notice mancini has the 2785 614 shroud that should work with this radiator. So hopefully with all this (and no damn backfiring) the car should be able to be enjoyed... hopefully.

 

[carfreak6970]

I made it back to where the car is for a family function and got some time in-between winterizing the other vehicles. I finally started it after the work that was described above and holy cow!! You could balance a nickel on that engine at idle it was so smooth! the idle sounded awesome! After I tried to break in the new lifter I had installed I decided to take it up the street. Under load and heavy acceleration there was no backfiring!! I was ecstatic! Even better is that the temperature stayed consistent with the new radiator.

A couple things I noticed was the car did not like to charge at all. I dont believe it is the voltage regulator, since I know that is a known good one. However I do not know if the alternator is in decent shape. Easy enough to check out.

Another thing that is and has been problematic with this car was the steering wheel will automatically turn right. Even at idle the steering wheel will start turning to the right without any input from the driver. This is even worse when your trying to accelerate with one hand on the wheel trying to shift and fighting to keep the car straight. How can I address this situation? The steering pump is new and the steering gear is a remanufactured one. It is a federal pump. The solution is here

 

[carfreak6970]

Well I was able to get a little time in on the GTS while home. One issue that has been there since the start is the interference of the Z bar and the headers. Never really took the time to fix it since I could never get the car to run right and the steering was always a pain. Well I had the wife cycle the clutch a couple times and saw exactly where it hits:

So two areas. One at the tip of the Z bar and just a little further up the arm. I was able to remove the Z bar, not as bad as I thought it would be, and was able to grind those areas down. Since this was Monday and had to drive back the same day I figured I stop on a good note and hope to get this thing installed next time I am back home. With this addressed, get the alternator situation addressed, get the clutch fan in, and the steering this car should FINALLY be close to enjoying!!

 

[carfreak6970]

This past weekend I needed the jack stands that held up the GTS to lift the Packard up so I could change the front wheel bearings. before I set the GTS on the ground I was able to install the Z bar. That was a pain in the ***. But it fits better now and the operation is a lot smoother!

I also got it started and adjusted the valve on top of the steering gear so that the wheels dont always dive right. I also looked into the brake leak on the drivers side. was able to get about a quarter turn out of the connections on the distribution block but took notice that all the lines on the caliper were tight. What I did see was some fluid coming out of the bleeder screw. I tried tightening it down a little and nothing. I went with taking a few threads off of the bleeder in case it was bottoming out on the threads and not the seat. Not to sure if that cured it. Ill find out more when I get home next and if there is still leakage, Ill just get another caliper. Not to sure what else I can do.

Removed the alternator so I can take to a parts store and get it tested to see if it is bad. I believe the voltage regulator was good when I took it off my other dart. If this tests good, I am not to sure what else would prevent this from charging. All the wiring is brand new. The only other electrical issue is the turn signals. I flip the turn signal stalk and the lights turn on, just dont blink. I tried different flashers and nothing. Just something I need to look into

 

[mygasser]

if your earths aren't good enough the turn signals can illuminate but not flash.
neil.

 

[carfreak6970]

This past weekend I went home and finally got some wheel time on the car. DAMN, does it drive nice! it is about time that I can actually drive it and not worry about over heating or engine issues.

The alternator had some bad diodes in it so I got them replaced and now the car is charging, but maybe a little to much? like the Ammeter stays on the charging side but never really goes to straight up and down. It really could be that the battery doesnt have time to fully charge since I really only been going on 3 mile stints at a time.

The clutch is smooth in operation but definitely stiffer than any car I driven before, so my shifts are not smooth at all. I hope to improve on that.

The car probably needs to be tuned, but right now I am enjoying the fact that I can actually drive it. But it didnt keep me from screwing with the carb. I believe it is a 71 440 standard avs carb, meaning it has the smaller primary bores. Well I wanted to see if I blip the throttle if the rods would move. Well on the first shot the rods would rise with the shot coming from the accelerator pump and the engine would bog down. But I would blip the throttle repeatedly after that and the rods would not move and the engine would rev normal after that. I used what I believe is 8 inhg springs from an Edelbrock spring kit and the issue still persisted but at least the rods would move a bit on throttle blipping. What would cause the rods to go wide open on the initial throttle blip, but not on the subsequent blips? Would that be a vacuum leak somewhere? or an internal issue with the carb? because the carb was rebuilt not to many years ago and did not have this issue when it was on a 70 Polara with a 440.

I did find the issue with the turn signals. It was the flasher. In my collection of 4 flashers, only one worked. I also noticed that my hazard flasher switch isnt working. So I will have to remove that and see the issue with that.

I did try to align the front end but ran into the issue of running out of adjustment. I can get the camber in the -.5 to -.75 deg territory, but I was not able to get the caster in the positives on any side (I am using the Skosh Chart for the alignment guidelines). I am thinking that may be because I am using the adjustable QA1 strut rods and may have not set my length properly on them. What is the appropriate effective length on A body strut rods?

 

[carfreak6970]

This past weekend I made it back home to do some driving! Well rain on saturday turned that day into a work day so to fill the time I installed the wheel lip moldings. It does really help balance the look of the car.

I did look a little bit at the alignment and noticed that my lower control arms were not parallel with the ground. I believe I have the torsion bars cranked up a little to high to help offset the 1" raise I did in the rear with the new leaf springs. So I will start there and make sure my adjustable strut rods are keeping the LCA perpendicular to the frame. As of now it is riding on the outer edge of the tire any turn in the road and the tires are squealing in protest. Not to mention any bump in the road and that front end gets a little squirrely.

BUT other than that it is a nice driving car. I found out the clutch grabs a lot further down in the clutch pedal travel than I am use to, so I have to press the accelerator a little sooner than other cars so that will have to be a driving adjustment on my part. I did find that I can blip the throttle after all, I cant stab it, but press and hold until the revs come up during a down shift. However my brake pedal is too high off of the gas in order to do the heal-toe downshift. Ill see if I can find an adjustable brake push rod that would bring the brake pedal a little closer to the floor.

 

[Dartsun]

Sweet looking dart

 

[carfreak6970]

I have been slowly lowering the front of the car and it is handling a little better. It may be at the point where I try the alignment again. Other than that, and the brake pedal height (just got the adjustable rod this week), its running great! its a fun car to drive. Slowly putting small bits in the interior and getting some other electrical stuff worked out.

It does run pretty warm in high heat humid days. When I bring it out to Pittsburgh that needs to be addressed. Ill need to get a clutch fan and shroud.

 

[Brian Mauro]

Hello All,

So some background:
I am 25 and have been looking for a project car for almost a year now. Only expanded my search to this site for the past 6 months. I wanted to get a car that I could fix up and be a summer daily driver up here (or "down here" depending on your location). The criteria has always been shifting on what options I wanted for the car. Anything from slant 6, small block V8, Big Block to A/C and other fancy options. But I ended up settling on a 67 Dodge Dart GTS with a 383 and a 4 speed from a member here (Thanks Craig!).

So the car is as stated a 67 GTS 4 speed. It was originally a dark red metallic and a black bucket seat interior. Not many options other than that. It was originally purchased up in New York for Drag racing. Made its way down to Florida with a stop in the Carolina's. At which point it was brought to MA, then to NH (where I bought it) and now its in PA! I am planing on keeping the original color scheme, and drive tran scheme. I will rebuild the 383 engine that my dad pulled from his 70 Polara to street specs to make it reliable and somewhat decent on gas (3.23 suregrip in the rear). My dad claims with a 440 (stock rebuild) Polara, through a 727 auto and a 3.23 suregrip he can get 18 mpg (with the top up). So since I am using a similar size motor, going through a 4 speed instead of an auto and a lighter car I should get around the same, if not better than him. hopefully lol. Maybe one day I would put power steering and brakes in and maybe even aftermarket A/C. I am planing on using the B-body exhaust manifolds so I will try and document as much as everything as I can. But the main goal is to get it on the road as soon as possible.

So my dad and I ended up going to NH to pick this guy up in the sleet and snow back in February, and only now brought it into my dad's garage (Back in Lancaster PA, I am in Pittsburgh). But as of now I am striping out the interior and finishing up the body work in hopes of getting the engine bay, interior, and truck painted by the end of the summer. So here are some pictures of us squeezing it into the back of the garage

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A little difficult getting it off the trailer but it is tucked safely in the garage! More pics to come soon!

AHHHHH the joys of rebuilding cars looks great I know how you feel

 

[carfreak6970]

So not much work has been done on this car lately. Last year was just enjoying the car and getting used to how the car runs. Still have the issue with the carb that I need to address, may try to change out the rod springs to a stiffer set to see if that helps.

Haven't had much time over winter to work on it. Just got some sound deadener on the roof to help with some noise before I get the head liner installed.

Headed home this weekend and Ill see if I can get the brake rod installed and work on getting my shroud fit up. depending on weather maybe try swapping out the rods in the carb. Currently my garage is full in Pittsburgh but the plan is to bring this car out here for the summer. This all depends on when I get a new job.

 

[69conv]

Its all baby steps but they are going in the right direction. Altho they are never done you will find yourself working on smaller and smaller project. Come on Spring!

 

[carfreak6970]

Didnt get much work done on the GTS this past weekend. Working on brake issues on other cars and the weather was too crappy to get any of the cars out.

But I was able to get the adjustable brake rod in. Not to sure if I want to raise or lower it more:

basically I want to be able to do the heal toe down shift. The pedal was to high from the gas to do it before, so we will see how this works out when the weather is finally nice to get it out.

Brought the shroud mounts out to Pittsburgh to paint them in hopes of hopefully getting the shroud on soon

 

[carfreak6970]

Well, for the past couple months I had way more time on my hands than usual. I was laid off from my job. BUT!! this allowed me to catch up on some car stuff. I got some good work done to one of the Packards that I have out here in Pittsburgh and I got the charger as far as I can take it. Unfortunately I need someone else to look at it. I am having some braking/suspension/ steering issues that I need a second opinion on. So a couple weeks ago I trailered that car back to my folks place. On the return trip I FINALLY brought the GTS to Pittsburgh!! super pumped to have this car out here now I can really start dialing this guy in:

So I still need to do some fine adjustments to the brake pedal but so far I like it. I found there was a MAJOR issue with the alignment. One of the cam bolt washers was worn to the point that it just allowed the bolt to spin, so no matter what I did to align it, it never worked. Replaced all bolts since I believe they were original to the car and got the car aligned. It tracks sooo much better now. I got some additional interior parts in to help get to that finished state (defroster vents in, A-pillar trim on, glove box pull handle, stopped the console ash tray rattle). I adjusted the timing down to 10 BTDC and brought the idle down to around 700 rpms. I checked the dizzy on my Sun Machine and found out the vacuum advance canister is dead. Which is fine, I will eventually put a new electronic dizzy in it (which I have).

So some issues I am having with it. First is that under load, heavy acceleration, I sometimes get a back fire. I had that issue with the push rod lengths and the cam not being timed properly which I took care of. However I still get a back fire a little bit. The carb is an original 71 440 AVS carb. So I am thinking it is worn to the point that I am having some vacuum leak that is screwing with the rod springs in the carb. So I will try to put different springs in to see if that helps. My plan is to replace the carb with a new one. I am thinking a Holley since I have a lot more modification parts for, plus the charger has one. Makes sense to keep things consistent so I have to keep less different replacement parts on hand.

The more concerning issue I am having is pulling away from a dead stop. If I am not careful with letting the clutch out/application of gas the WHOLE car shakes. Shakes like it will rattle itself apart. Now, I have experience with a manual transmission. I am not an expert, but I can drive smoothly. I am concerned that I installed the clutch wrong/misaligned the bell housing. I don't have a popping out of gear issue. It just sucks that I can hammer on it from a stop. But I guess at this point I shouldn't be doing that. Since I got it on the road in 21/22(?) I only put 200 or so miles on it... so MAYBE the clutch just needs broken in? I don't know. But now that I can drive it and its where I live, I will plan on driving it whenever and wherever I can. Being unemployed can have its perks!

 

[mygasser]

sounds like there's oil on the clutch making it judder as it's engaged. to check just put the box in high gear with the e brake engaged and slip the mother out of the clutch with some revs for a few seconds. the heat will burn any oil off of the centre plate and it'll then work normally. if it starts to judder again after a few days/weeks then whatever leak the oil came from before needs fixing.
neil.

 

[carfreak6970]

sounds like there's oil on the clutch making it judder as it's engaged. to check just put the box in high gear with the e brake engaged and slip the mother out of the clutch with some revs for a few seconds. the heat will burn any oil off of the centre plate and it'll then work normally. if it starts to judder again after a few days/weeks then whatever leak the oil came from before needs fixing.
neil.

Thank you for that information!! however I think I may know my problem. So I did what you suggested yesterday when I took it out and the judder was gone! I was super estatic! however, when I took it to the gym this morning and when I left the gym the judder was back... Given how my engine oil has pretty much stayed the same level but I recently had to add a decent amount of trans oil without seeing a puddle on the floor, I may have a leak out of the front shaft of the trans... Is there a way I can confirm that without taking the trans out? It could be maybe I didn't burn it all off?

 

[mygasser]

without reading back through the thread i'll assume it's a factory 4 speed (as per the title). if so the bottom of the bellhousing will unbolt so you should then be able to see if the oil is from the trans' or motor.
neil.

 

[carfreak6970]

without reading back through the thread i'll assume it's a factory 4 speed (as per the title). if so the bottom of the bellhousing will unbolt so you should then be able to see if the oil is from the trans' or motor.
neil.

So I was able to get the car up on some skates and get the inspection cover off. The rear main seal looked okay and the seal on the bearing retainer looked good. The only thing I could see was wetness on the end of the bearing retainer where the front shaft comes through:

So there may be an issue with the oil seal on the shaft. However, the oil level in the trans doesn't seem much lower than when I filled it. So maybe I don't have a leak, or it just leaked because it sat with fluid and no movement and just seeped out. So I tried cooking the clutch again. Ill try a drive tomorrow (weather permitting) and see if that has taken care of my issue.

 

[carfreak6970]

So after talks with a couple people at Chryslers at Carlisle I felt the transmission had to come out to check out this clutch issue. Well I didnt want to do all the work on my back plus, I think I was having a clearance issue with the header and the steering. So I decided to lift the body off the engine/trans/front suspension. Here is the list of all the things I could think of to lift the body off:

So I started and created a cradle for attaching to the bumper bracket bolts:

and to my surprise it was a success:

 

[carfreak6970]

So today I was able to separate the trans and engine. Here are some of the pictures of what I found:

So it appears that I had an oil leak regardless. I am not sure if the oil seal in the bearing retainer was installed incorrect, or if the bell housing alignment caused the input shaft to lean in a particular direction causing a leak. I sent the photos to a Mopar tech who works on these old cars and he said my fly wheel is toast, and the pitting on the input shaft and bearing retainer would dictate a replacement.

does anyone else see anything need besides a new input shaft, input shaft bearing retainer, seals, bell housing alignment, new clutch, turned down/new flywheel, reconditioned pressure plate?

 

[carfreak6970]

So I ended up ordering a new clutch disc, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, input shaft, bearing retainer. everything else looked good, until I tried to assemble the transmission back together... I was missing one of those rollers for the counter shaft. So ordering more parts I go.

I also got time to look into the alignment. So At 3 o'clock, I set the dial indicator to 0, at 12 it was -.003, at 9 it was +.014, at 6 it was +.012. So according to the service manual and the example it gave I can only have about .008 of run out. and my highest run out is .014, which is .003 more than the .004 that is allowed. So do I try to find offset dowels at .005? is that how it works?

 

[skep419]

So I ended up ordering a new clutch disc, throw out bearing, pilot bearing, input shaft, bearing retainer. everything else looked good, until I tried to assemble the transmission back together... I was missing one of those rollers for the counter shaft. So ordering more parts I go.

I also got time to look into the alignment. So At 3 o'clock, I set the dial indicator to 0, at 12 it was -.003, at 9 it was +.014, at 6 it was +.012. So according to the service manual and the example it gave I can only have about .008 of run out. and my highest run out is .014, which is .003 more than the .004 that is allowed. So do I try to find offset dowels at .005? is that how it works?

Curious what clutch disc you went with?

 

[carfreak6970]

That is a good question. I got it from passion performance and it is just listed as a 10.5 organic clutch disc.

is there a good way to get the old bell housing locating dowl pins out? I am having a hell of a time...

 

[carfreak6970]

Was able to get the dowl pins out. Drilled, and threaded them. Stuck on some washers that were bigger than dowl pin, threaded a bold on with a nut and used the nut to pull them out. Needed grad 8 hardware to do it though