68 dart 318 troubleshooting challenge

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pedalpowerceo

pedalpowerceo

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okay.

my dart won't start. the accelarator pump is giving a shot of gas, and I hit it with starter fluid as well as checked the fuel pressure at the carb, so it doesn't seem to be a fuel problem

I replaced the:
coil,
distributor,
dist. cap,
rotor, pointing at plug wire number one inside the dist cap, with the number one piston at top dead center
set points at .17,
replaced the spark plugs gapped at .40,
already had new plug wires...
replaced the ground at pass rear of engine block to the firewall and sanded the connections down to bare metal.
ran a wire from the positve side of the coil to the positve on the battery, and she still won't start...

I took off a valve cover and the valves are opening and closing.
the rotor turns when you crank it, and sprarks jump between the points...

can anyone come up with what else I can check?
 
tyler_s18 said:
was the engine at tdc#1 on exhaust or intake stroke? lol that has bitten me a few times lol
Click to expand...


well, I found tdc by turning the crank pulley by hand until cylinder was at the top and then the timing mark on the crank pulley lined up with the mark, which is where i had it timed when she ran... so I think it was the intake stroke.

thanks for the reply, I had not thought of that.
 
okay I got an optima battery, replaced the ground cable from battery to the block, and replaced cable from battery to the starter. now I get a consistent spark when I take out a spark plug and ground it on the exhaust manifold, so i think the spark is good now...

by reading around here on the forum, I am starting to wonder if I slipped a tooth on my timing chain? I have been cranking her over while turning the distributor back and forth to no avail.. I did think i heard a different noise when I was cranking it the first time it failed to start (different in a bad way) do timing chains slip while you are cranking the engine over... or do they ususally only slip at higher rpms?

would putting #1 piston at TDC and checking to see that both valves are closed be the right way to rule out the timing chain?

any help appreciated, this car is wrecking my self esteem...
 
It sounds like you have it 180 deg off. You said you replaced the distributor. Loosen up the hold down bracket and lift up the dist. a little and turn the rotor 180 deg. and then try it.
 
as stated check the ballast first. put a jumper across to see if it fires up. just don't run it too long like that. then also check to make sure your at the compression stroke when you line up the timing. pull the no. 1 plug and feel for compression then line up the timing mark and rotor to no. 1.
 
he would have spark cranking but as soon as he let off the key into run position it would die.
 
In most cases the timing chain jumps when the engine is turned off, especially if it was running hot. The chain is longer when its hot.
It can jump when cranking too. Very short starter bumps are begging a loose chain to jump.
 
RedFish said:
In most cases the timing chain jumps when the engine is turned off, especially if it was running hot. The chain is longer when its hot.
It can jump when cranking too. Very short starter bumps are begging a loose chain to jump.
Click to expand...

okay, I'll start to look at the piston position relative to the valvetrain... thanks for that, RedFish

one of the first things I did was hook the coil up directly to the battery to eliminate the ballast resistor and other shorts or wiring problems...
 
Place a jumper directly across the resistor and try to start it.
 
RedFish said:
Place a jumper directly across the resistor and try to start it.
Click to expand...


I tried that early on also... but I will try again when I get home.. (new battery, dist. and stuff since trying that last time)

thanks to you guys on this board, I think I understand the ballast resistor pretty well now.

I am getting a nice, regular spark thru the plug now. It looks like a pretty strong spark to me, the car won't start, but I can crank it for a long time and the spark does not go away, or fade... again, this is all hapening with the coil wired directly to the battery.

I am at work now, but tonight I'll check the valve and piston relationship to see if it may be the timing chain.

thanks again for all y'alls help, I have learned so much in the last few weeks from this forum. that car would still be sitting and rotting if it weren't for you all! (well, technically it still is sitting, but hopefully not for long!)
 
OK , A compression tester is the easiest way to determine if cam crank relation is wrong. The compression ill be low on every cylinder. If the spark is hot enough it should still fire though, atleast spits, pops, grunts, something.
Could have been flooded too, although if it hasn't been messed with today it has dryed some.
Put a jumper over that resistor and fire it up LOL. Good luck with it
 
got home and messed around some more... jumpered the ballast resistor but it made no difference. I have isolated the ignition system by running the wire from the battery straight to the coil, so I can't see the ballast having an effect while the coil is getting 12 volts all the time, staight from the battery

I checked the rotor for the fifteenth time, it is pointing at the plug wire for cylinder #1 when that cylinder is at tdc and the harmonic balancer timing mark is lined up, so I know it is when that plug is supposed to fire.

I put my old carburator back on thinking maybe my new one got a chunk of something stuck in it somehwere... I have fuel pressure at the carb, the new fuel pump pumps when you crank it over, I have new fuel tank, sending unit, filter and line, I sprayed enough starter fluid in there to have it ignite out of the top of the carb, so I think spark must be pretty good...

I have to agree with redfish, it seems like if the timing chain has slipped, it should be backfiring, and at least trying to start...

do any of you think the starter relay, or the starter might have a short that is bleeding off power? I want to blame the resistor or the voltage regulator, but by hooking the coil directly to the battery, i can't see those bieng the problem...

I am going to be much more fun to be around when this thing is fixed, I can tell you that much
 
I don't have a compession tester yet, so i took off a valve cover and turned the harmonic balancer by hand until I saw the #1 cylinder valves opening and the timing mark was not near the line on the block, I know this is not very conclusive, but the valves appear to be closed when the timing is set to fire off piston #1...

I'll buy a compression tester in the morning, I am too P.O.'d at my car to talk to the parts store people right now...

I guess I may as well ask this now.... How much compression is "really low"

ie: low enough to tell me my timing chain has slipped?

and, as always, thank you for letting me drink from the FABO fountain of knowledge!
 
180deg. off. Have you even tried it? I know you say you looked at it and its pointing to #1 but the internals must not be where you think they are. I only mention this because I have done the same thing. And agrued with my buddy that it was right. Well he lifted the dist. housing up just enough to turn the rotor 180 deg., bolted it back down and it fired right up. I felt like an idiot.

You right about the timing chain. It would still fire some if off only 1 or 2 teeth.
 
could be 180 deg out or timing chain has jumped check with compression gauge should be over 100psi cranking
 
homecloned said:
180deg. off. Have you even tried it? I know you say you looked at it and its pointing to #1 but the internals must not be where you think they are. I only mention this because I have done the same thing. And agrued with my buddy that it was right. Well he lifted the dist. housing up just enough to turn the rotor 180 deg., bolted it back down and it fired right up. I felt like an idiot.

You right about the timing chain. It would still fire some if off only 1 or 2 teeth.
Click to expand...

I'll try anything! the only reason I have not done that yet is because If I turn the rotor 180 degrees inside the dist housing, it will point away from plug wire #1.... I moved the plug wires from old cap to new cap one at a time to make sure they stayed in the same place. the metal contact at the end of the rotor should point at the metal contact inside the dist cap, right?

I'll try it... I'll try painting the whole car purple and smearing it with ice cream if there is a chance it will run again.
 
pedalpowerceo said:
I'll try anything! the only reason I have not done that yet is because If I turn the rotor 180 degrees inside the dist housing, it will point away from plug wire #1.... I moved the plug wires from old cap to new cap one at a time to make sure they stayed in the same place. the metal contact at the end of the rotor should point at the metal contact inside the dist cap, right?

I'll try it... I'll try painting the whole car purple and smearing it with ice cream if there is a chance it will run again.
Click to expand...

It wont hurt to try. The engine turns over but wont start, right, and you have spark at the plug. Fuel is going into the carb. spark + fuel = ignition
. If it is out 180 your are sparking cylinders with no fuel in them yet. I am not saying I am 100% sure this is the problem, but I was in the same boat. Now if I ever have issues after having the dist. out I just turn it 180 deg and it usually works. Man I hope its this simple for you. Let me know.
 
sorry, I went out there this morning and turned the rotor 180 degrees like you suggested, checked the points gap once more for good measure, got in to try and start it again and realized I left the key in the run position all night and fully discharged my brand new 150$ optima battery. so I put it on to charge and now I am at work....

with a big black cloud over my head.:angry7:

I'll post back later tonight
 
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