Hello all. I have a freshly machine shop built completely balanced 68 340. Motor has been run in previous car. Approx. 20 miles on motor. Installed in my 68 dart and installed a newly rebuilt 727 trans with a new converter. I am trying to crank motor for first time not to run just to crank. Installed a summit racing pro torque mini starter. When pinion gear engages it turns motor but has a very distinct clatter sound at starter and converter while cranking only. Tried new summit starter same problem. Does anyone have any ideas?
68 Dart starter issues - any ideas
- Thread starter Dean P.
- Start date
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DartGTDan
'71 Dart GT Fan
Welcome Dean P.,
When my starter died, I used a mopar starter from 1998 Dakota on my '71 Dart GT (original 318, 2-bbl, auto). Works like a charm and so much smaller.
(BTW Howell, MI? I'm in Macomb, MI)
When my starter died, I used a mopar starter from 1998 Dakota on my '71 Dart GT (original 318, 2-bbl, auto). Works like a charm and so much smaller.
(BTW Howell, MI? I'm in Macomb, MI)
ScampMike
Despicable Damn Yankee
flywheel bolts not tight enough..
If it sounds like a GM starter not shimmed right, most GM guys dont even know to shim, might be a def ring gear on converter. not the correct distance from the pinion gear. You are sure converter is centered correctly? Just a few thoughts.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
First thing, simple as this seems, is to make absolutely positively certain that the bellhousing is actually properly bolted / seated to the engine, and that the starter is likewise.
In my "oldmanish" I've seen all KINDS of things in my life. One time a friend of mine got a wiring harness tie that was meant to bolt onto an upper bellhousing bolt, "up there" where it's dark, got it wedged between the bell and the engine, and bolted everything up.
In other words the tab(s) with the bolt holes got dangled down between the bell and the engine, making a wedge
In my "oldmanish" I've seen all KINDS of things in my life. One time a friend of mine got a wiring harness tie that was meant to bolt onto an upper bellhousing bolt, "up there" where it's dark, got it wedged between the bell and the engine, and bolted everything up.
In other words the tab(s) with the bolt holes got dangled down between the bell and the engine, making a wedge
Inertia
Well-Known Member
The 4 flex plate/converter bolts are special, and use a "shallow" head, if you used a regular bolt, and perhaps a washer, the bolt may interfere with the block when cranked/running, and make noise similar to your description.
TrailBeast
AKA Mopars4us on Youtube
Easy to diagnose by looking at the bolt heads and see if they are chewed up. (FYI for the OP)
Turning the motor over manually from the harmonic balancer bolt. The torque converter spins with it nothing weird there. If I take the bolts out of the flex plate how freely should the converter spin? Thanks for all the responses. Great site.
It will feel like it has some resistance just from the weight of it, it should spin fairly freely though.
Like mentioned, did you use the correct bolts?
Does the engine turn over like it should via the starter, just making noise?
Do you have a dust shield/inspection cover on the trans?
Sometimes they get bent and the bolts will chatter on it.
Disconnected torque converter from flex plate. Converter spins nice and free. Cranked starter over while disconnected. Not as loud but all chattering at teeth between starter and converteer. Starter bench tested fine before install. Could it be 2 bad starters in a row from summit ? More likely to be issue with starter or converter?
Inertia
Well-Known Member
Starters often "chatter" when the battery is low/dead, or has poor terminal connections. Clean connections.
Try charging/boosting the battery, or replace it with one known to be good/charged.
Try charging/boosting the battery, or replace it with one known to be good/charged.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Well you just narrowed it down a lot.You proved the clatter is right at the convertor to pinion gear interface. Barring a low battery, allowing the pinion to drop in/out, and since you are on the second starter, Ima guessing there is something wrong with the RG.It sounds like it is too big on the OD, or wrong tooth count.SBM cars are 130tooth IIRC.
Thanks so much. Going to get to the bottom of it tomorrow for sure. Counting teeth and trying stock starter. I guess a bad day working on a Mopar is better than any good day working on a Ford. Thanks again for your input.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Tim, I read this post as it appeared. But I didn't see any of it applying to the OP.
-The relationship between the starter and the RG is fixed on a Mopar and cannot be shimmed, as the nose of the pinion sits in a cup in the back of the bellhouse.Well I suppose you could find a way, if you had a mind to.
-And if the TC was not centered, it would have one tight spot, one loose spot, and 2 just right spots.Which would not translate to a continuous clatter.
-I'll give you credit for def ring gear, but at the time of reading, I had no idea what "def" might be.
-And "not the correct distance from the pinion gear" I supposed, harked back to the opening GM shimming statement.
-So my apologies to you if you feel slighted; But it happens to me all the time. I get over it.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I would SUSPECT cables, connections, etc before you condemn a starter, with chatter problems. Don't ever discount stuff like cables which look OK EXternally and are corroded away INternally or "broken" inside the insulation, right at the connection exit point. Only multimeter tests will tell you this
"Counting teeth." There IS NO wrong ring gear made of, by, or for Mopars that will bolt together and crank at all and "be wrong."
I would inspect the ring gear teeth. "You can tell" if they are OK. Look for "square" tops of the teeth, you can see the stamping / machine marks on the tops of the teeth on some of them, rather, "not pointedy" from wear.
Likewise, where the starter pinion "slams" in, teeth can be severely eroded back from the mating face. The teeth should be close to "full width."
Examine the socket area back in the bell where the starter "mates". That can be full of "junk." Some mini starters don't "sit" back in there the way the old ones did.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Del
I was thinking more along the lines, that the TC case was somehow oversize, and that when they sweated the RG onto it, it ended up being too close to the pinion.
Or that they installed a RG from another brand of car.
I am not sleighted at all. Defective Ring gear to me seems to be the only mechanical component it could be. Defective in any number of ways. Machined too small, too large, wrong number of teeth. I was just using the GM starter example to narrow down the sound.
Thanks for the ideas. since all components are new. cables,battery. TC , and starter. I have decided to try 1 more starter. A different brand than the first 2 which are the same. If not any better than it can only leave the ring gear on the tc as the problem. I took the the bolts that separate the tc to the flex plate out and it spun freely. Of course the local trans shop said its not the fault of their tc. But they said if I try a 3rd starter and still bad they will replace tc. i will know later today . Thanks again
Inertia
Well-Known Member
Did you charge, or boost the battery?
Just because the battery is new, doesn't mean it's got an adequate charge, especially if it's been sitting a while, and/or you have been using the car's stereo.
Eliminate the obvious/easy things first.
cheers
Just because the battery is new, doesn't mean it's got an adequate charge, especially if it's been sitting a while, and/or you have been using the car's stereo.
Eliminate the obvious/easy things first.
cheers
furyus2
Well-Known Member
One more item to check. I put a Dakota starter in my 64 Sport Fury with a 440. It didn't go in smoothly or work correctly. Found out it was a casting ridge not ground down at the factory. Knocked it down, and all was good.
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