69 383 Performance

-
M

Milo3156

Active Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Location
Olathe KS
Guys,
I have a 383 in my 69 dart and I am not getting the power I think it should have. Currently I have TTI headers, weiand intake, and Edel Carb 1406 (600 CFM). I would like to get around 400-450hp out of this motor which I know it is capable of but doubt I am even getting 200hp.

Would like some feedback on carbs, looking at Edel 1411 (750CFM)- will my 383 struggle with this? Is there something better? I do not care about economy, I want power!!!

What other bolt ons can I install to get additional power?

I am looking to put in larger gears this winter in my 8.75 rear (4.10 or 3.91) I am not sure what's in there now but guessing 3.23. I don't know much about rear ends either so I will have to buy the whole center section or pay someone to install.

I wanna go fast and rip the tires!!!!

Thanks:prayer:
 
My guess is, if the engine was stock to begin with, you made "weak" worse. Have you tuned what's in it now? Has it been either chassis dyno'd or run at the track? Most important thing in modifying is knowing where you're starting from.
 
I took over another guys project and added headers that's about all I know about it. I have not taken to the track nor have I put it on a dyno. But I will see what I can find for a dyno in Kansas City.
 
Milo3156 said:
Guys,
I have a 383 in my 69 dart and I am not getting the power I think it should have. Currently I have TTI headers, weiand intake, and Edel Carb 1406 (600 CFM). I would like to get around 400-450hp out of this motor which I know it is capable of but doubt I am even getting 200hp.

I am looking to put in larger gears this winter in my 8.75 rear (4.10 or 3.91) I am not sure what's in there now but guessing 3.23. I don't know much about rear ends either so I will have to buy the whole center section or pay someone to install.
Click to expand...

Not the greatest intake, too small of a carb. In my experience a holley will always outperform an eddy carb all day long.

What height tire are you running? A 3:73 or a 3:91 is pretty livable on the street. 4:10's+....not so much. Unless you have an OD.

What cam is in it? What heads are on it?

I hate to tell you this but literally every 383 car I've ever been in was a dog. I know there are guys that have had screamers or had a buddy that had a buddy that...




moper said:
My guess is, if the engine was stock to begin with, you made "weak" worse.
Click to expand...

This /\ /\ /\

Milo3156 said:
I took over another guys project and added headers that's about all I know about it. I have not taken to the track nor have I put it on a dyno. But I will see what I can find for a dyno in Kansas City.
Click to expand...

Putting headers on it isn't a bad thing. Getting it on a chassis dyno will get you tuned properly. I wouldn't spend a second thinking about whatever number it spits out. I've seen 70+HP variations in chassis dyno numbers. No variation in AF ratio's and timing.



IMO I'd get the 3:91 gears, get a 750HP series holley or knockoff like quickfuel etc. Have it tuned. See where you're at. You can live with that intake. The headers are fine.
 
Power comes from 3 things, Compression, camshaft and cylinder heads. Bolt ons like a good intake correct carb and headers are required. You will not get huge power from boltons alone.
 
roccodart440 said:
Not the greatest intake, too small of a carb. In my experience a holley will always outperform an eddy carb all day long.

What height tire are you running? A 3:73 or a 3:91 is pretty livable on the street. 4:10's+....not so much. Unless you have an OD.

What cam is in it? What heads are on it?

I hate to tell you this but literally every 383 car I've ever been in was a dog. I know there are guys that have had screamers or had a buddy that had a buddy that...






This /\ /\ /\



Putting headers on it isn't a bad thing. Getting it on a chassis dyno will get you tuned properly. I wouldn't spend a second thinking about whatever number it spits out. I've seen 70+HP variations in chassis dyno numbers. No variation in AF ratio's and timing.



IMO I'd get the 3:91 gears, get a 750HP series holley or knockoff like quickfuel etc. Have it tuned. See where you're at. You can live with that intake. The headers are fine.
Click to expand...


Tire size is 245/60/15-
After more thinking you are right about the 4.10 begin too high. I had 4.11 in my corvette and it was at high rpm all the time. so I just got pricing on a 742 case with 3.91 gears, and sure grip posi.

I have heard that Eddys are better than holleys because of Holleys gaskets, but I am sure that is personal preference. I will get my gears installed and a new carb and see how she runs from there. Was thinking about possibly a new cam over the winter but we will see.
 
Milo3156 said:
Tire size is 245/60/15

I have heard that Eddys are better than holleys because of Holleys gaskets, but I am sure that is personal preference. I will get my gears installed and a new carb and see how she runs from there. Was thinking about possibly a new cam over the winter but we will see.
Click to expand...

With your tire and the 3:91 gear it will turn 3,000RPM at 60mph.

The bowl gaskets on the old holleys would stick when you took them apart and it was a pita. The new ones, at least the HP series carbs as well as the knockoff stuff has non-stick gaskets. You can also replace the old stick type with non-stick if you have one apart.

Gaskets have no function as to how the carb performs. Only it's serviceability.


Try to get the cranking compression if you can.

How does it idle? What is the timing set at?
 
I'd tune what you have, before throwing more money at it. 600 cfm Edelbrock carbs are lean on a 318. Get some smaller diameter rods and replace them in that carb, easily done from the top. Check TDC to verify timing marks are good, do a search on this site. I've seen them way off. Set timing to 10 BTDC to start and check where it is about 3,000 rpm. Check the distributor vacuum advance to make sure it holds vacuum. Check your gears. Maybe a tag or count the revolutions for one complete revolution. Most HP 383's would beat a 440 back in the day.
 
roccodart440 said:
I hate to tell you this but literally every 383 car I've ever been in was a dog.
Click to expand...
.....and every 383 I've had experience with was great for it's cu in and car weight. My 68 RR 727TF with just headers,
484 cam, a DP4B intake (625 AVS) and 3.91 gears ran 13.80's on slippery H70-14 bias plies (terrible 60').

We didn't have any 6-Bbl's or Hemi's to race but mine and even my best friend's 69 383 4-speed RR with air grabber
that was pure stock never got beat by any GTO, 442, 454 Chevelle or God help you if you had a Camaro or Mustang.

We raced a LOT. Multiple times 7 days a week if it wasn't snowing. Pretty much the evening activity every day 68-72.
 
You've confirmed everything I've experienced and everything I wrote in my earlier post.

Glad we see eye to eye
 
66fs said:
... Get some smaller diameter rods and replace them in that carb, easily done from the top. ...
Click to expand...

Sorry to barge in asking stupid questions but this caught my eye. Would you care to elaborate on this? I've never heard of this before and don't know what it means.

/n00b
 
In order to run really hard, there are certain things that need to be done. 383s run well, for what you get. But you don't get much - not even what they were supposed to get.

If you can get some compresion readings, and if you have a buddy with a dial indicator, se about pulling the rockers and taking some lift readings directly off the lifter body. You can get an idea of what you have that way.

Carbs have no idea what they're on, nor does the engine know what is feeding it. The only common denominator is getting yours properly tuned. I'd wager it's off. What about your timing curve/setup? Have you looked at that?

You only need to spend time at this point.
 
moper said:
In order to run really hard, there are certain things that need to be done. 383s run well, for what you get. But you don't get much - not even what they were supposed to get.

If you can get some compresion readings, and if you have a buddy with a dial indicator, se about pulling the rockers and taking some lift readings directly off the lifter body. You can get an idea of what you have that way.

Carbs have no idea what they're on, nor does the engine know what is feeding it. The only common denominator is getting yours properly tuned. I'd wager it's off. What about your timing curve/setup? Have you looked at that?

You only need to spend time at this point.
Click to expand...



All this stuff is over my head, there is a hot rod shop close to me that I talked to and I plan on taking it to them soon and have them give me some ideas on what to do. I am mechanical (can take things on and off) but don't know the first thing about comp readings, lift readings ect.

Thanks
 
Easy: Compression test. screw the PSI gauge into the sparkplug hole. Crank the engine over and record the PSI it reads.


Moderate difficulty: Lift reading. Dial indicator on a magnet block or a bolted mount. Crank the engine until the rocker is at the bottom point. Set the dial indicator to 0. record the highest lift.
 
Find out what you're starting with. In '69. 3 levels of 383 were out there.

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=101


Not every 383 was a dog. Brings to mind, as I understood it to be, a dual quad 383, automatic, '68 Barracuda that ran exceptionally well back in the day around here. Black paint, with "Backstabber" painted on the tail panel. The guy moved to the St. Louis area maybe early '80s. Someone out there might remember him/it.
 
Daves69 said:
Find out what you're starting with. In '69. 3 levels of 383 were out there.

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=101


Not every 383 was a dog. Brings to mind, as I understood it to be, a dual quad 383, automatic, '68 Barracuda that ran exceptionally well back in the day around here. Black paint, with "Backstabber" painted on the tail panel. The guy moved to the St. Louis area maybe early '80s. Someone out there might remember him/it.
Click to expand...


My car originally had a slant 6, the guy that owned it before me installed the 383. Are there markings I can look at to see the year and factory mods?
 
360DartGT66 said:
Sorry to barge in asking stupid questions but this caught my eye. Would you care to elaborate on this? I've never heard of this before and don't know what it means.
/n00b
Click to expand...

Carter style (now Edelbrock) 4 barrel carbs have metering rods that stick through the main jets. The metering rods have steps of different diameters. The AFB style has 2 diameters and the AVS has 3. I'm pretty sure the Thermoquad has three also. Vacuum working against a spring on the top of the metering rods varies the depth of the rod into the jets. The fat part of the rod will flow less fuel than the skinny part of the rod because the fatter rod reduces the area of the jet.

Quick illustration:
Put the tip of your left index finger and thumb together so they form a circle.
Put your right thumb through the circle. Notice the area that is open.
Now put your right "pinkie", or fifth finger, into the hole. The open area is larger than when the thumb was there.
Imagine the circle being the hole in the main jet and the thumb and fifth finger a metering rod with 2 diameters. A smaller rod diameter will allow more fuel to flow (power) and a fatter rod allows less fuel flow. (idle and cruising) Voila!

A Carter, or Edelbrock, tuning kit has multiple main jets, metering rods, and metering rod springs. You can download a chart that shows most of the combinations available. See Summit or other places for the parts.
 
Before I would spend another nickle on it, I would check the cylinder pressure and perform a leakdown test on it, to see if you even have something to work with.

These should be the no1 go-to, anytime power is contemplated. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sows ear; And you cannot pull horsepower out of weak cylinder pressure.

See post #2, and others

The 383 should already be a ripper with the way it is, and with 3.23s, unless the pressure is down
 
KosmicKuda said:
Carter style (now Edelbrock) 4 barrel carbs have metering rods that stick through the main jets. The metering rods have steps of different diameters. The AFB style has 2 diameters and the AVS has 3. I'm pretty sure the Thermoquad has three also. Vacuum working against a spring on the top of the metering rods varies the depth of the rod into the jets. The fat part of the rod will flow less fuel than the skinny part of the rod because the fatter rod reduces the area of the jet.

Quick illustration:
Put the tip of your left index finger and thumb together so they form a circle.
Put your right thumb through the circle. Notice the area that is open.
Now put your right "pinkie", or fifth finger, into the hole. The open area is larger than when the thumb was there.
Imagine the circle being the hole in the main jet and the thumb and fifth finger a metering rod with 2 diameters. A smaller rod diameter will allow more fuel to flow (power) and a fatter rod allows less fuel flow. (idle and cruising) Voila!

A Carter, or Edelbrock, tuning kit has multiple main jets, metering rods, and metering rod springs. You can download a chart that shows most of the combinations available. See Summit or other places for the parts.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot! Good to know since I have a Carter AFB on my 360. :thumblef:
 
66fs said:
I'll try to post pictures tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate that but it isn't necessary. I understand the concept now, I just hadn't heard anyone mention it before, I'd only heard of "metering rods" (on Roadkill, I believe) and just dismissed it. I have all I need, thanks!

But hey, someone else could be interested, so by all means, don't let me stop you! :)
 
Automatic or four speed? A tight converter will make a car feel slow (and probably be slow). Like others have said you need to find out the condition/specs of the motor.
 
383s are dogs? Is that why the 68 Road Runners were such pieces of ****? Is that why the 343 HP 383 dual carb cars ruled Stock Eliminator back in the day?

Seriously?

Tune what's there first. The carburetor is about right for a street 383. It's not too small. Make sure your timing curve is right. You want "somewhere close" to 20* initial with around 34-36* total all in by about 2500 RPM. Get the timing right FIRST, or else all else will be incorrect.

Make sure the carburetor floats are not too low or high. Read the plugs and adjust the carburetor mixture and metering springs as needed. You shouldn't need to change metering rods or jets because they should be right on the money at your 383's mild power level. Once you get it all tuned correctly, I think you will be happy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top