69 Valiant caster adjustment
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AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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Yeah it looks about 2 inches too long/deep/wide.It looks like a Duster fender. A Dart fender is a bit shorter in there,IIRC. So that could be a 5th option, make it 1st real option. I thought there was something weird there, but couldnt reel the thought in. Sucks getting older.Good catch, RedFish.
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
What???
of course it looks like a duster fender. it IS a Duster fender. everything from the cowl forward IS a Duster.
And if I read you correctly, I should have killed many people and destroyed my car by running a lowered suspension for all this time. Well, my car drives just fine thank you, and I didn't "reengineer" anything, I just put careful thought into the components I used and their assembly.
OP- I don't see a problem, mine looks similar, so do other Valiants I've seen. Get the thing aligned like others have said and see where you stand.
.5 negative camber
3.5 or more positive caster
1/16 toe in
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
See what I mean?
Inertia
Well-Known Member
LOL .. have you checked to see how each of the rear wheels differ from side to side.. ??
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
Yes
You can't throw 255 tires on on these cars with out checking everything.
You can't throw 255 tires on on these cars with out checking everything.
The hell you say. That's what he did. lol
That is interesting. I would think the spacing would be the same on my Duster, since it should be the same fenders and all. But then again, mine is a '74 so maybe there were more changes than just the side marker and grille mounts? It looks to me like the earlier fender has a more "round" wheel opening, the fender curves back in more than on the later fenders on my car. So maybe the whole thing is a '71 and earlier deal, or just a bit of optical illusion because of the shape of the wheel openings.
This is with 275/35/18's, so a smidge shorter than a 255/40/18, but you can see the wheel looks more centered.
That's NOT to say that the position of the wheel is more important than the alignment, the OP still needs to get an alignment because the alignment is more important than the visual position of the wheel in the opening as long as nothing is rubbing.
2 Darts
A-body Addicted
I agree with AJ/FormS in that what we have here is a failure to communicate. I also agree with the OP that the wheel does not appear to be centered in the wheel opening. Do a search for 1969 Valiant and look for images, the issue the OP is having with his car is not unique.
Suggest check the LCA and control rods to make sure they are straight and properly installed. Also check LCA & UCA bushings. IMO, if I have to make a choice between having the car drive right or look "right", I'll choose drive right.
Once the wheel position and ride height have been set, set the alignment. I recommend this chart over the factory settings mainly because the factory settings were designed for bias ply tires, not radials.
Suggest check the LCA and control rods to make sure they are straight and properly installed. Also check LCA & UCA bushings. IMO, if I have to make a choice between having the car drive right or look "right", I'll choose drive right.
Once the wheel position and ride height have been set, set the alignment. I recommend this chart over the factory settings mainly because the factory settings were designed for bias ply tires, not radials.
From the pic I would believe that he needs to turn the upper control arm up side down and remove and install the ball joint from what now is the bottom,I just went thru this on our 67 valiant ,We used hemi denny upper arms and they can be installed either way--Steve
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
my car looked even worse when I bought it as a partly built drag car. I had some Cragar front runner wheels on it, not unlike th OP's car. when you combine the wider track of the disc brakes and skinny wheels with next to zero offset, it sticks the tires/wheels further out making any alignment issues really stand out. even with proper alignment, my wheels didn't look centered in the wheel opening, yet everything was proper.
I've got pics somewhere, I'll dig them out.
for reference, my valiant had 38k miles and no wrecks when i got it.
my take on this is that it's an optical dilusion, are the front wheels in the OP's picture aimed perfectly straight?
all the best -pauly
I've got pics somewhere, I'll dig them out.
for reference, my valiant had 38k miles and no wrecks when i got it.
my take on this is that it's an optical dilusion, are the front wheels in the OP's picture aimed perfectly straight?
all the best -pauly
I understand what you guys are saying, it's not that I don't hear you... I'm trying to wrap my head around this and it seams like even if I move the control arm either which way it doesn't help. I've seen other cars on here lowered and they do not have my problem. The car was like this when i purchased it . My question is why are the wheels back that far to begin with? The car appearantly was aligned before I bought it. Not! My thought was that the fenders were not the correct ones or something. Is it possible that the spindles are not correct ? Or the spindle needs to be offset?
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
Is it just me, or do the upper control arm look wrong? The ball joint is at a steep angle to the spindle and this does nto loo right.? Please take a look everybody and render an opinion. If so, then this is likley the source of the issues. OP, when the UCA says left, that goes on the dirver's side like you are looking from behind the steering wheel (not standing in front of the car, looking back at the car).
Of course, the UCA being adjusted way too far back would do this also.
I have been looking at the UCA mounts too, to see if they were modified in the past. They kinda look original but am not sure. Since this was a drap car before, I would suspect that anything could be modified.
Of course, the UCA being adjusted way too far back would do this also.
I have been looking at the UCA mounts too, to see if they were modified in the past. They kinda look original but am not sure. Since this was a drap car before, I would suspect that anything could be modified.
pauly v.100
Well-Known Member
I'd bet you're toe is out of whack.
Sorry, but you really aren't listening.
Before you do ANYTHING, you MUST get an alignment. You don't even know if the wheels are going to look like that with the proper alignment.
And if they do look like that after an alignment, then that's what they're going to look like. Lowering or raising the car won't change the fore/aft location of the wheels. Not all of these cars are identical, factory tolerances were only within 1/4" or so, and that's on the suspension. Body tolerances can be further off than that. The fenders aren't wrong, and it's very unlikely the spindles are incorrect or need an "offset." If the car can't be aligned, you'll know something is wrong. If it can be aligned correctly, that's just the way it is.
Hey guys, update with the car. So I found a post on hear regarding new poly bushings from pst for strut rods on a bodies. Apparantly they are too thick and force the lca back. I talked to the original owner "2 owners ago" and he said ever since he put poly bushings in the caster had been like that an were purchased from pst. Annnnd bingo, car fixed now. I believe someone on hear prior told me to look at the strut rod bushings as well, so thank you.
longarm
Car sold back to original owners
Glad you got it figured out!
Sometimes its a little thing that bites ya.
Sometimes its a little thing that bites ya.
Glad you figured it out! :thumbup: So, what did you do to fix the issue? Have you had it aligned yet?
And yes, I mentioned the strut rods a couple posts in on the first page.
The fact that the strut rod bushings are the poly kind is exactly the sort of thing I was getting at. And for what its worth, not all the rubber strut rod bushings are right either. Which is why I use adjustable strut rods on my cars when I switch over to poly LCA bushings. The factory strut rods are a "one size fits most" kind of deal, they weren't even right for all of the cars leaving the assembly line. Just "close enough". Which is why adjustables are the way to go for any kind of increased performance set up. The strut rods shouldn't be used to set the alignment, as their purpose is just to locate the LCA's in the spot where they move freely and don't bind, but they absolutely have a HUGE effect on the final alignment.
To check the strut rods you should disconnect everything from the LCA (shocks, spindles, sway bars). The torsion bar should remain in the socket but the adjuster will have to be backed off completely. Then you can move the LCA up and down on the pivot. It should move freely, and without binding, through the whole range of motion. It should do the exact same thing with the strut rod attached. If the strut rod pushes the LCA too far back, or pulls it too far forward, you'll get resistance or binding through some parts of the range of motion. With an adjustable strut rod, you can adjust the length of the strut rod to put the LCA right where it needs to be. With the stockers, you just hope for the best, although you can make small adjustments with the bushings. And as you already found out, there are different thickness bushings out there.
As the OP's Dad, I'd just like to say thanks to all who have taken the time to "steer" my son in the right direction...lol.
He's new to A-bodies but is following in my footsteps (70 340 Duster, raced @ Dragway Park from 75-82) and I'm thrilled to get back into it with him. As soon as he moves closer to home in a week or so and gets the lil 69 shipped here, I'll be under it on my old creeper from back in the day. Ahhh, Mopar memories.
Thanks again to all, and 72bluNblu....you rock.
He's new to A-bodies but is following in my footsteps (70 340 Duster, raced @ Dragway Park from 75-82) and I'm thrilled to get back into it with him. As soon as he moves closer to home in a week or so and gets the lil 69 shipped here, I'll be under it on my old creeper from back in the day. Ahhh, Mopar memories.
Thanks again to all, and 72bluNblu....you rock.
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