70duster 360 gets hotter the faster i go

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Ok, took her for another test run... Its about 60-65 deg (guessing) nice cool night
Every one wants to race me! Got in to it with a 392 srt8 charger, then a street bike... Lil ****** was liftin his front wheel and layin on the gas tank!!... And a quick 40-70 i had that 392! Blew my mind! This 360 is way better then the lil baby 318! (Pretty sure its broken in now) lol.... Im around 600miles fresh on the 3rd oil change (not including break in)

Anyways off track... It was cold out and was only gettin to about 180-190 goin about 50mph (2500ish)... Poped the hood, every thing looks good temp wise 190 goin in at the top, about 155-160 goin in from the bottom... Water pump is about 170 deg... I thought it wud b more around 155-160 area...
Kept cruzin... Took it on the highway for about 10 miles mayb goin about 60 mph (2800-2900rpm) i got a small tach... Jumped on highway around 180 deg, turned fans off and cruzed steady 60ish, all flat.... Temp went up to 200 fairly quick (within 3-4min) then slowly kept creepin up to about 215-220 when i got off the highway...
Pulled over and temps were 220 at top hose, about 185 at bottom hose, and pump at about 200-205.... So its not moveing water right??
I squeezed lower hose, this firm, and full of pressure, but u can feel the spring..
So i pop the rad cap (its got that lever on top)... Reved it up to 3000-3500, water is moveing in their! Lil white caps and all, and it all stayed inside.... So the radiator flows good... Im thinking my water pump sux, and it jus swirls water around behind the impeller, and create air bubbles that make steam pockets...
Lower hose has a good spring in it, no signs of collapsing under high revs...when i was revvin it up (from 3000 to 4000rpm) i was feeling around the lower hose, u cud feel it sucking but it wasnt sucking the hose to the spring... I dunno if that matters...
And my extra coolers in front... Tranny cooler hardly breaks 110 deg goin in and 80 deg goin out (cooler was 80 deg), and oil was about 150 in and 130 goin out (cooler was about 130deg).... So its not really giving the radiator hot air....
I think i might get a good water pump with a plate on the impellers to prevent cavitation... Thats the only thing i can think of...
Any more ideas??
 
I just wrote a huge story and its gone!! Involves racing a 392 srt8 charger, then a street bike, and it still got hot!! Lol
The quick facts, i dont wanna write that story again (im on this with my phone)
But i ran it down the highway at 60mph for about 10 miles, it was cold, mayb 60deg... And i kno, 60 is deff not a "run down the highway" hahaha

Pulled off the highway temp was reading 215-220 on gauge under dash...
Pop the hood, and turn on fans (cuz this is gettin hot for me) temp at t stat was 200-210 all the way to top of radiator... The core was about 180ish, and bottom tank and hose were around 160... But pump was 175! Not pumpin right?
I rev it up checking lower hose, its not suckin in, u can feel water moveing around, but not sucking hose to spring or anything....so i pop rad cap (it has lever on top) rev it up and it moves water! White rushing water (temp is about 180 on top of radiator now)

I think my water pump sucks,, its moveing water but with that gap behind the impeller who knows where the water is goin!....and shudnt that pump be as cold as the water coming in?? Not 10-15 deg hotter? Whats goin on behind that pump??
 
Damit! ^ i hate this phone, im goin in the garage!
Thanx for the advice, ill post back and let everyone know what happened
 
CurtDawg510 said:
Thermostat housing 195
Top of radiator tank 200
Radiator core 135-150
Bottom radiator hose 185
Water pump 195
Click to expand...

There's your problem,, your rads not losing enuff heat,, there should be at least 40* or more difference between top and bottom rad fittings

Send the rad out and get it rodded out, or replace it.

The fact you have different temps across the rad indicates some tubes are plugged, (the cool/cold ones), and you're just reading the front tubes... the bottom rad hose is hotter than the rad core..

If you doubt it,, go fire up any decent running vehicle you got,, get it up to temp,, and shoot the temp on the upper and lower rad fittings..

hope it helps
 
AJ/FormS said:
Blu
If you drove 50,000 miles without a v-can, never had one, how is it you have a basis of comparison?
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Because I have driven plenty of other cars with them. Pretty simple. I've been driving for 20 years, not 20 minutes.

AJ/FormS said:
Lets see; 50,000 miles saving just 2mpg , that would be what $600bucks at the pump? and represents what $900 at the time clock. And that would be more than a weeks wages up here. Then theres the wear and tear aspect.You know ring wear, cylinder wall wear. Bearings, etc.
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Hole in piston from detonation = a lot more than $900.

As far as ring and cylinder wall wear, you're assuming I have a fuel mixture problem. I don't. Not according to my A/F gauge. Or my spark plugs. Or my vacuum readings.

AJ/FormS said:
And I guess youre quite a bit smarter than every factory engineer ever to design an ignition system. They are certainly a lot smarter than me.
One day you will wonder, and then you will install and tune one, and then you can come back and tell us all about it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm smarter than at least a few factory engineers. I know that for a fact, because I went to college with more than a few engineers that now have that title. Scary to think some of the guys designing your airliners only managed a "C" average isn't it? Well, they did. Average graduating GPA for engineers at UCLA was a 2.7 when I was there. And that's the 8th ranked public school in the world. Go figure.

Designing an ignition system for one of these cars is a piece of cake, and can be done by pretty much any undergrad engineering student with the proper motivation. Heck a points system could be done by anyone with an E&M physics course and maybe the first EE circuits class. They were invented by guys that had neither. Electronic would need a couple of EE classes, but nothing fancy.

And I have in fact tuned quite a few vacuum advance distributors, so, no, I will not ever come back and tell you about how amazing it was to realize how right you are. Because you aren't in this case. I've tuned 3 different dizzy's for that Challenger, with custom advance curves, welded advance plates, tunable vacuum advance cans, even the fully adjustable aftermarket stand alone unit it has now. The works. When the vacuum advance is hooked up, the old girl detonates under mid-throttle acceleration. Doesn't matter if its a can with 10* advance or 20*. Don't know why, doesn't make any sense. Same as I don't know why a stock as a clock low compression stock-cammed 318 wants 20* of advance at idle. Shouldn't, but it does. Runs better, pulls better vacuum, gets better mileage, all of it. And yes, I checked TDC and marked the balancer, thank you very much. It bugged me for awhile, but I got over it. It works, I don't screw with it, I drive it.

AJ/FormS said:
I dont know how your car is built, but in mine the rad is behind the core, and the edges would be totally shrouded,had I not cut the sides back, rendering those 15% nothing more than heat sinks.And as to exchanging heat under a closed hood with 8 header pipes breathing fire within inches of them, Im sorry, splain it to me.
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Well first, the shroud for the electric fans on the back of my radiator covers the entire core, so, when the fans are on, they pull air through the entire 26" radiator. Funny how that works. :D

But you want to talk about airflow through the front. The grille on your car is bigger than the gap between your hood and cowl. So, that means that all that extra air has to go through the engine compartment and out under the car. At freeway speed, the air in your engine compartment isn't that hot because there's air moving through it at not much less than freeway speeds. But, that's still thinking with a linear air flow model. Realistically, the air going through the radiator isn't laminar, it's turbulent. Just like the air coming off the edges of the opening in the radiator shroud. Which means that although the speed of the air going through the 1.25" of fins that are partially obscured on either side by the radiator shroud opening is slower, they're still seeing air flow because the radiator shroud isn't in direct contact with the fins. The air coming off those edges would look like an eddy in a river, and will circle in behind the shroud. Slower, but still moving.

And the 15% thing is false science. Yes, that's the decrease in surface area exposed to air moving at the full velocity. But it sure as heck ISN'T the decrease in efficiency. You'd have to calculate the speed of the air that's going through those fins to know that. And then that would also be velocity dependent, so it would change at different speeds. And since there are really only empirical formula's for calculating turbulent flow, you'd pretty much have to put my car in a wind tunnel to figure it out. Or model it with some really expensive software.

Yes, the air flow and the velocity is reduced to that section of the core. So, the 26" radiator in front of the 22.5" opening is not as efficient as a 26" radiator in front of a 26" opening. But it will still cool better than a 22" radiator in front of a 22.5" opening. And since almost all of these cars came with 22" radiators, well, that's probably better than it needs to be anyway. It is on my Duster.

AJ/FormS said:
And finally, I didnt say v-cans were mandatory. I said ; street car needs v-cans.Period. post#6. Did you get that? N-E-E-D.
And how is your Challenger combo even pertinent? Its a teener/904, with a mechanical fan, and a stock TC. But if you cant tune a v-can then I guess you should rip it out.
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Street cars do not need vacuum advance. They need oil, water, fuel, air, etc. But while they usually benefit from vacuum advance, they don't NEED it. At all. In fact, before the mid-sixties, most cars didn't have it.

My Challenger is pertinent because you seem to think any street car without a vacuum advance can will overheat. You said they NEEDED it. My Duster with the 340 is more relevant since it's set up very similarly to the OP's car, but you latched onto the 50k miles I've driven in my Challenger because you wanted to come after me personally. The 340 in the Duster doesn't overheat either. Despite being a .060" over 340 making well over 400 hp with a 26" radiator in front of a 22" shroud.

And, I can tune a vacuum advance can. And have. And will again. But, that wasn't my point. My point was, the OP's lack of an advance can isn't causing his car to overheat. Nor is the 22" opening in the radiator shroud.
 
72bluNblu said:
Because I have driven plenty of other cars with them. Pretty simple. I've been driving for 20 years, not 20 minutes.



Hole in piston from detonation = a lot more than $900.

As far as ring and cylinder wall wear, you're assuming I have a fuel mixture problem. I don't. Not according to my A/F gauge. Or my spark plugs. Or my vacuum readings.



Yes, I'm smarter than at least a few factory engineers. I know that for a fact, because I went to college with more than a few engineers that now have that title. Scary to think some of the guys designing your airliners only managed a "C" average isn't it? Well, they did. Average graduating GPA for engineers at UCLA was a 2.7 when I was there. And that's the 8th ranked public school in the world. Go figure.

Designing an ignition system for one of these cars is a piece of cake, and can be done by pretty much any undergrad engineering student with the proper motivation. Heck a points system could be done by anyone with an E&M physics course and maybe the first EE circuits class. They were invented by guys that had neither. Electronic would need a couple of EE classes, but nothing fancy.

And I have in fact tuned quite a few vacuum advance distributors, so, no, I will not ever come back and tell you about how amazing it was to realize how right you are. Because you aren't in this case. I've tuned 3 different dizzy's for that Challenger, with custom advance curves, welded advance plates, tunable vacuum advance cans, even the fully adjustable aftermarket stand alone unit it has now. The works. When the vacuum advance is hooked up, the old girl detonates under mid-throttle acceleration. Doesn't matter if its a can with 10* advance or 20*. Don't know why, doesn't make any sense. Same as I don't know why a stock as a clock low compression stock-cammed 318 wants 20* of advance at idle. Shouldn't, but it does. Runs better, pulls better vacuum, gets better mileage, all of it. And yes, I checked TDC and marked the balancer, thank you very much. It bugged me for awhile, but I got over it. It works, I don't screw with it, I drive it.



Well first, the shroud for the electric fans on the back of my radiator covers the entire core, so, when the fans are on, they pull air through the entire 26" radiator. Funny how that works. :D

But you want to talk about airflow through the front. The grille on your car is bigger than the gap between your hood and cowl. So, that means that all that extra air has to go through the engine compartment and out under the car. At freeway speed, the air in your engine compartment isn't that hot because there's air moving through it at not much less than freeway speeds. But, that's still thinking with a linear air flow model. Realistically, the air going through the radiator isn't laminar, it's turbulent. Just like the air coming off the edges of the opening in the radiator shroud. Which means that although the speed of the air going through the 1.25" of fins that are partially obscured on either side by the radiator shroud opening is slower, they're still seeing air flow because the radiator shroud isn't in direct contact with the fins. The air coming off those edges would look like an eddy in a river, and will circle in behind the shroud. Slower, but still moving.

And the 15% thing is false science. Yes, that's the decrease in surface area exposed to air moving at the full velocity. But it sure as heck ISN'T the decrease in efficiency. You'd have to calculate the speed of the air that's going through those fins to know that. And then that would also be velocity dependent, so it would change at different speeds. And since there are really only empirical formula's for calculating turbulent flow, you'd pretty much have to put my car in a wind tunnel to figure it out. Or model it with some really expensive software.

Yes, the air flow and the velocity is reduced to that section of the core. So, the 26" radiator in front of the 22.5" opening is not as efficient as a 26" radiator in front of a 26" opening. But it will still cool better than a 22" radiator in front of a 22.5" opening. And since almost all of these cars came with 22" radiators, well, that's probably better than it needs to be anyway. It is on my Duster.



Street cars do not need vacuum advance. They need oil, water, fuel, air, etc. But while they usually benefit from vacuum advance, they don't NEED it. At all. In fact, before the mid-sixties, most cars didn't have it.

My Challenger is pertinent because you seem to think any street car without a vacuum advance can will overheat. You said they NEEDED it. My Duster with the 340 is more relevant since it's set up very similarly to the OP's car, but you latched onto the 50k miles I've driven in my Challenger because you wanted to come after me personally. The 340 in the Duster doesn't overheat either. Despite being a .060" over 340 making well over 400 hp with a 26" radiator in front of a 22" shroud.

And, I can tune a vacuum advance can. And have. And will again. But, that wasn't my point. My point was, the OP's lack of an advance can isn't causing his car to overheat. Nor is the 22" opening in the radiator shroud.
Click to expand...

this whole deal is interesting. is the pic on your avatar (original poster) the car in question? if it`s not, and you have a bigger hood scoop on it, is it blocked (sealed) off to the engine compartment? had a friend that had the same problem, also had a 600 horse 406 in a vega that did the same thing as yours. the open hood scoop was catching enough air to fight the in coming air from the radiator by pressurizing the engine compartment, at speed out on the hiway, but didn`t bother it at low speeds. when I sealed the carb to the scoop, end of overheating problem!-just a thot, ---bob:coffee2:
 
i had this problem on my 68 charger. it would run hot on the highway but would be fine in town,
i went from a 160 thermostat to a 195 and problem was fixed..

if you think about it a 160 stat will stay open almost all the time and not let the coolant stay in the radiator long enough to cool down, so by putting a 195 in it will probally fix the problem..
its a quick fix i would try first
 
Once the stat is open... Its open. Purpose of stat is to allow engine to warm up faster and slightly restrict flow.
 
70duste said:
i had this problem on my 68 charger. it would run hot on the highway but would be fine in town,
i went from a 160 thermostat to a 195 and problem was fixed..

if you think about it a 160 stat will stay open almost all the time and not let the coolant stay in the radiator long enough to cool down, so by putting a 195 in it will probally fix the problem..
its a quick fix i would try first
Click to expand...

This is absolutely NOT true. If you were overheating with a 160, then the 160 was DEFECTIVE
 
Fst73_410 said:
Once the stat is open... Its open. Purpose of stat is to allow engine to warm up faster and slightly restrict flow.
Click to expand...

Sorry NOT TRUE. Stats can fail in several ways, stuck open, stuck closed, and NOT OPENING wide enough.
 
67Dart273 said:
Sorry NOT TRUE. Stats can fail in several ways, stuck open, stuck closed, and NOT OPENING wide enough.
Click to expand...

How is what I said not true...if your response was describing it failing? Those are two different discussions, the purpose of the Tstat and the ways it can fail? lmao:violent1:


The thermostat limits the lowest operating temp. The Thermostat begins to open at its rated temp., and fully opens 10-20 degrees after that. You either know how they (thermostat) work or you think you know. IF you put a 160 in and it runs the same as the 180..... that proves the point that it does nothing but allows the car to warm up to its end temp., quicker. Some cars will stay around 160, but most cars will still continue to raise after that. The cars that run near the thermostat temps are more than likely todays cars that are equipped with aluminum radiators, electric fans that pull 2500 plus cfm of air and high flow electric water pumps.


I have a 180 Tstat right now and I know that it will start to creep to 190-200 and stay in that range unless at a light and then it will creep to 210. IF I switched to a 160 and it still did this, that means there is no difference for me from the 180 and 160, besides a faster opening time and a slower creep to 200ish temps, with a chance that it may actually stay cooler.


Aslo there are plenty of people running no Tstat on the street. With Electric pumps and without electric pumps. We also live in Cali where there is no real winter here.

Efficient cooling cars will run near the temp of the Tstat, but ones that run hot, this is sort of a bandaid I believe I was told once to help hotter running cars.
 
Id say its the radiator, based on your description of whats going on. Like someone else said, your lower hose is HOTTER than the core.....pretty obvious.
 
Fst73_410 said:
TStat limits the lowest operating temp. Tstat begins to open at it rated temp and fully opens 10-20 degrees after that. You either know how they work or you think you know. IF you put a 160 in and it runs the same as the 180.. That proves the point that it does nothing but allow the car to warm up to that temp quicker. Some cars yes will stay around 160, but most cars will still continue to raise after that. I have a 180 right now and I know that it will start to creep to 190-200 and stay in that range unless at a light and then creep to 210. IF I switched to a 160 and it still did this, that means no difference besides a faster opening time and a slower creep to 200ish temps


Aslo there are plenty of people running no Tstat on the street. With Electric pumps and without electric pumps. We also live in Cali where there is no real winter here.

Efficient cooling cars will run near the temp of the Tstat, but ones that run hot, this is sort of a bandaid I believe I was told once to help hotter running cars.
Click to expand...

sorry bud I can't follow that. makes my head hurt. my eyes blurred somehere around the cycles of the moon
 
Fst73_410 said:
Once the stat is open... Its open. Purpose of stat is to allow engine to warm up faster and slightly restrict flow.
Click to expand...
your half right about the warming up part once it reaches temp it opens allows coolant to circulate thru the engine then closes so that the now hot coolant can stay in the radiator so it can be cooled by the fan/air. if the coolant circulated continually how would it ever get cooled off?
 
If some of you boys wanna have a dick measuring contest, go rent a room. A lot of this isn't helpin the OP at all.
 
Id pull the w/p seen many over the years from people using just water weak coolant mixes or just plain old stuff and the pump impellers have rotted away sure it'll move some water/coolant but no where as well as it should. you can always refit it if it's ok.
 
zombywoof said:
your half right about the warming up part once it reaches temp it opens allows coolant to circulate thru the engine then closes so that the now hot coolant can stay in the radiator so it can be cooled by the fan/air. if the coolant circulated continually how would it ever get cooled off?
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You're.....lol it does not close. How would it close if it opens specifically when the water temp gets to the temp above the thermostats rating? IF the water is always above the thermostats rating, I would think that means the thermostat would be forced to be open. no?


and Rusty you are correct lol. When my car started to have the same issues as curt, first thing I did was search threads and it always turns into pissing matches of who does what and he said she said.
 
barty005 said:
Id pull the w/p seen many over the years from people using just water weak coolant mixes or just plain old stuff and the pump impellers have rotted away sure it'll move some water/coolant but no where as well as it should. you can always refit it if it's ok.
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The water pump could be going bad. But yes, running water without the proper additive like a water wetter will force the WP to fail early. But I believe he just put this engine together and has less than 500 miles on it. For all he knows, it could have air in the system! Might need to burp the system
 
Is car running lean? Oh highway that will cause overheating. MT
 
Mopar Tim said:
Is car running lean? Oh highway that will cause overheating. MT
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We have been talking and he was having this weird issue of the car getting hot while driving, but said it would cool down while idling
 
Fst73_410 said:
Aslo there are plenty of people running no Tstat on the street. With Electric pumps and without electric pumps. We also live in Cali where there is no real winter here.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's a bad idea. Even in California. Unless maybe those people never drive when it's less than 70* out. Otherwise the lack of a thermostat will mean extended warm up times, and possible damage to temperature sensitive parts like the valvetrain. Just more wear and tear. And, why? Won't make more horsepower or run better without one.

The OP mentioned a Mr. Gasket thermostat? I had one of those that I couldn't use with my Air Gap, despite it being intended for a Mopar. The outer diameter of the thermostat was pretty much the same as the opening in the intake, so it would fall through and into the intake. Same for the housing, the relief in the housing was intended for a larger flange. You can use a gasket with a smaller opening to set it in there, but then the gasket is the only thing holding the t-stat. If the thermostat is moving around under higher flow volumes because the flange is too small of a diameter it could be causing a restriction.

This is the Mr. Gasket part that didn't fit...
mrg-4366_w_ml.jpg


Replaced it with this, same flange as the original design the intakes's and t-stat housings are made for...
SUM-360160_SN_ml.jpg
 
Fst73_410 said:
We have been talking and he was having this weird issue of the car getting hot while driving, but said it would cool down while idling
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My point, I melted a plastic Rad in a 460 powered truck because it was jetted two lean. Idle will cool off. I build to pull HEAVY loads with one ton gas powered trucks and found no matter how much cooing you have, its like nuclear reactor, melt down if too lean. I read post and did not see this mentioned yet. could have missed it tho:burnout:MT
 
Also a head gasket leak, or a crack in the head can put exhaust into the cooling system, and can act that way as well.
 
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