72 Dart Swinger 3.6L Pentastar +T5

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Been a while since my last update.

Finally got her on the Dyno for some tuning. Mostly focused on tuning the VVT and testing different Pentastar Upper and Lower intakes.
Overall gains were +25whp and+19ftlbs

Full disclosure: imo that dyno is reading a good 25hp too high but the gains from tuning are legit, which is all I care about.


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myduster360 said:
Been a while since my last update.

Finally got her on the Dyno for some tuning. Mostly focused on tuning the VVT and testing different Pentastar Upper and Lower intakes.
Overall gains were +25whp and+19ftlbs


View attachment 1716316327View attachment 1716316328View attachment 1716316329
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Nice!

Couple of questions:

1. Speedometer connections?

You posted about using a Dakota Digital signal converter and you made mention of unhooking your ABS module so I gather that you are running one. Did you not use the converter or did it just not work? Guessing your plan is to send the ABS module a speed signal and let it generate and send the proper messages on the CanBUS network, correct?

2. Thinsulate thoughts?

It doesn't appear that 3M lists the Thinsulate material for automotive uses anymore but does have other products that are specific to it. Just curious how you felt the Thinsulate worked and if you would go a different direction if you were to do it again.

3. Steering column mount?

I missed if you made mention of you steering column. It appears you are using the Jeep steering column? Curious how you mounted it and if it worked well.
 
With all the NA dyno tuning done, its SUPERCHARGER TIME!!

I have it currently running well with the cams still where they were NA. She'll break my sticky autocross tires loose in 2nd gear easily enough.
The plan is to get back on the Dyno and sweep the cams again to see how adding 7-8psi changes things.

After 93oct is done tuned, E85 is next.
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More install pics
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Low temp Radiator for the IC fits nicely in front of the LX Radiator
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The Edelbrock Wrangler TVS 1320 needed its intercooler water lines changed to 90s to clear the firewall. I had to switch back to my 3speed wiper to clear the back of the blower.
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The Wrangler IC water lines only needed small adjustments to fit

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DionR said:
Nice!

Couple of questions:

1. Speedometer connections?
Jeep ABS sensors are goofy +12v & not the low voltage, variable reluctance of most all speed sensors that the Dakota box is made for. So I'm stuck figuring out how/where to a ~52 tooth tone wheel for the factory sensors

2. Thinsulate thoughts?

Decent enough but honestly there's still too many holes and gaps in the car to properly evaluate it. ei: Steering column, trans tunnel
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DionR said:
3. Steering column mount?

I missed if you made mention of you steering column. It appears you are using the Jeep steering column? Curious how you mounted it and if it worked well.

I just hacked up a factory backet and welded it to the Wrangler. It bolts into the same 3 bolts as stock. Sorry no pictures handy.
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reply in RED
 
myduster360 said:
More install pics
View attachment 1716316333

Low temp Radiator for the IC fits nicely in front of the LX Radiator
View attachment 1716316334

The Edelbrock Wrangler TVS 1320 needed its intercooler water lines changed to 90s to clear the firewall. I had to switch back to my 3speed wiper to clear the back of the blower.
View attachment 1716316335

The Wrangler IC water lines only needed small adjustments to fit

View attachment 1716316337

View attachment 1716316336
Click to expand...
Any idea what this thing weighs?
 
When I'm not wrenching on the actual 5.7 swap, I am busy trying to figure out how to retrofit ABS and wheel speed sensors to my '73 Duster. Project started because I wanted cruise control and since I am using a factory PCM, why not use the factory CC controls in the PCM, which means I need a stock or semi stock speed input. Originally I was just going to wire up one sensor and not plumb in a ABS module but it has rabbit holed into a full 4 channel ABS swap using an HCU from a 2009 Challenger SRT8 6M.

My plan is to use '15+ Mustang rear axle hubs front and back to provide the tone wheel. I think they are even 52 tooth wheels. I have a plan for a custom front spindle and am working on a rear axle mount as well. Many revisions to go though and I haven't confirmed yet that I can get an axle made that can squeeze the bearing like stock. But a company called MillerBuilt does something similar with C5/6/7 hubs so I don't think it is impossible.

Certainly easier ways to do it though. Strange has a kit to mount '05+ Mustang brakes to 9" axle ends that includes the option to keep the ABS tone ring and sensor. Those tone rings are only 50 tooth though. And since I have an 8.75 I would need to narrow anyways, using 9" axle ends would be easy. Add a custom tone ring to the front hubs I have now and a simple sensor mount and I would probably be golden. But I'm too dumb to do anything the easy way.
 
myduster360 said:
With all the NA dyno tuning done, its SUPERCHARGER TIME!!

I have it currently running well with the cams still where they were NA. She'll break my sticky autocross tires loose in 2nd easily enough.
The plan is to get back on the Dyno and sweep the cams again and see how 7-8psi changes things.

After 93oct is done tuned, E85 is next.
View attachment 1716316331
Click to expand...
Finally! I’ve been waiting for that specific update since I saw you mention it a long time ago. That’s the edlebrock jeep kit correct?

Edited to add;
You answered my question in your next post. Thanks
 
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A nice added benefit of a modern engine is Variable Valve Timing! You can change the Intake and Exhaust Cam Centerline independently and thus overlap

Before we installed the Edelbrock Supercharger, we got our 3.6l swapped 1972 Dart Swinger test rig on the dyno for some Pentastar R&D.

First thing was to dial in the Intake and Exhaust Centerlines by "sweeping the cams".

Since the Intake Cam timing has significantly more impact on performance, the standard procedure is to fix the Exhaust timing at a reasonable value and then vary the Intake a few degrees every pull.
Once optimum Intake Centerline is found, you then vary the Exhaust timing a few degrees every pull.

Once optimal Exhaust Centerlines are found, you go back and tweak the Intake Cam timing as needed.


Here are the dyno pulls from the Intake from 70degrees ATDC to 130degree ATDC. The exhaust was fixed at ~110degrees BTDC
The Torque & Hp peaks varied as much as 75fltb and Hp by around 80whp
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Once we have the resultant HP/Trq curves the final WOT cam timing is dialed in by taking the "best" results through out the entire RPM range.

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A dozen or so dyno pulls to optimize the Cams rewarded the Dart with an overall gain of ~10hp & 15ftlb over stock
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I saw that you are running the hyperco 175 lb leaf springs, I'm curious how they have been? I'm assuming that ride height is with no lowering blocks? Do you get any wheel hop on acceleration with them? I'm considering a set and there isn't a lot of info out there.
 
myduster360 said:
A nice added benefit of a modern engine is Variable Valve Timing! You can change the Intake and Exhaust Cam Centerline independently and thus overlap

Before we installed the Edelbrock Supercharger, we got our 3.6l swapped 1972 Dart Swinger test rig on the dyno for some Pentastar R&D.

First thing was to dial in the Intake and Exhaust Centerlines by "sweeping the cams".

Since the Intake Cam timing has significantly more impact on performance, the standard procedure is to fix the Exhaust timing at a reasonable value and then vary the Intake a few degrees every pull.
Once optimum Intake Centerline is found, you then vary the Exhaust timing a few degrees every pull.

Once optimal Exhaust Centerlines are found, you go back and tweak the Intake Cam timing as needed.


Here are the dyno pulls from the Intake from 70degrees ATDC to 130degree ATDC. The exhaust was fixed at ~110degrees BTDC
The Torque & Hp peaks varied as much as 75fltb and Hp by around 80whp
View attachment 1716326095


Once we have the resultant HP/Trq curves the final WOT cam timing is dialed in by taking the "best" results through out the entire RPM range.

View attachment 1716326100

A dozen or so dyno pulls to optimize the Cams rewarded the Dart with an overall gain of ~10hp & 15ftlb over stock
View attachment 1716326108
Click to expand...
This is an awesome build. I haven't read the whole thread but very cool! Am I seeing it correctly a tad under 300 to the ground after supercharging?
 
Johnny Mac said:
This is an awesome build. I haven't read the whole thread but very cool! Am I seeing it correctly a tad under 300 to the ground after supercharging?
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That dyno was when it was still N/A. Honestly though, i think that dyno is reading ~10% too high compared to other inter-webs examples.

I installed the 1320cc Edelbrock SC a few months ago and have it mostly tuned but haven't yet dynoed.
It should gain another 40-50% on 93oct and ~60-70% on E85

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myduster360 said:
That dyno was when it was still N/A. Honestly though, i think that dyno is reading ~10% too high compared to other inter-webs examples.

I installed the 1320cc Edelbrock SC a few months ago and have it mostly tuned but haven't yet dynoed.
It should gain another 40-50% on 93oct and ~60-70% on E85

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That's great! I was honestly hoping the dyno was n/a, but then again wasn't sure how well the small blower on a 3.6 reacted. I thought they rated most of these at 305 crank, so a tick under 300 to the ground after tuning n/a is pretty dang good. Even if the dyno Is a little happy.
 
Johnny Mac said:
That's great! I was honestly hoping the dyno was n/a, but then again wasn't sure how well the small blower on a 3.6 reacted. I thought they rated most of these at 305 crank, so a tick under 300 to the ground after tuning n/a is pretty dang good. Even if the dyno Is a little happy.
Click to expand...
Overall gains from dyno tuning(A/F, Timing and Cams) were +25whp and+19ftlbs.
So to me, the gain is more important than the absolute Hp.

We'll see what gains are found after tuning with the Supercharger. I'm especially interested in seeing what Cam timing most benefits PD boost vs NA.
 
TT5.9mag said:
That would have to be a very efficient (read incredible) blower to achieve those numbers.
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LOL Really???? Care to share your source of misinformation?

Because, +40% increase is the norm & not at all "incredible".

Here's the receipts:

Edelbrock's supplied conservative CARB legal 91oct tune shows ~+41% 317whp vs ~225whp
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Here's another guy's with a gain of +46% whp 226whp to 330whp
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Here's the lowest gain I can find.....just under a 40% whp gain.
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Really? You said 60-70% on e85. And that’s what I was referencing. I also didn’t say it was impossible. But I’d still like to see it. My source of misinformation is my experience putting boost on just about everything I’ve ever owned. What’s the outlet temp of the air on that blower at 15psi?
 
MiradaMegaCab said:
Hmm, the Demon170 puts out 1025HP on E85 and 900HP on gasoline.
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Yup, and it has an interchiller cooled by the ac system, a 6.2 liter engine and a 3.0 liter twin screw supercharger. All of which are factors.
 
Update: WIPERS!

Issue: The factory 2 speed wiper motor no longer fit behind the blower.

The factory 3 speed would fit but its cluster F of a circuit that's dependent on the factory switch meant it wouldn't work with the JK Wrangler stuff. So i'd have to add a dedicated circuit just to run the factory switch. I'm saving that for a backup, backup plan.

Solution: Use a 1998-2003 Dodge Van wiper motor with some modifications.

Most 70s and early 80s Dodge trucks and vans used the same old 2 speed wiper motor all the A bodies did. It wasn't exactly the same, only 90% identical with different park position, 1 mounting bolt and cranks.
Around 1985 or so they all switched to a lighter more modern design shared with Caravans and other K cars of the time.

So the mounting bracket of the post 1985 mostly fits. The lower bolt holes had to move in a bit. The upper two bolt position and gasket seal were spot on.
I got this crusty example off Ebay super cheap. Technically its from a 1998-2003 Dodge Van
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The crank has a Ball stud on the 1998-2003 Van motor, so that needed to be changed
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But 1998-2003 B-Van motor is special in the fact that it has a modern tapered SPLINE so the crank can be Clocked however you want. This is only zillion times easier than changing the park clock on the factory 2 and 3 speeds

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I just ground off the pressed mushroom off the back of each stud, knocked it out and rewelded my old stud onto the new crank.
The Bigger the BLOB the better the JOB!
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Here is all bolted up and ready to go. Well, nearly ready. I'm waiting on a new pigtail to come in.
It definitely needs a good cleanup.


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I jerry-rigged a temporary connection to test the function, and its all good imo

 
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myduster360 said:
Update: WIPERS!

Issue: The factory 2 speed wiper motor no longer fit behind the blower.

The factory 3 speed would fit but its cluster F of a circuit that's dependent on the factory switch meant it wouldn't work with the JK Wrangler stuff. So i'd have to add a dedicated circuit just to run the factory switch. I'm saving that for a backup, backup plan.

Solution: Use a Dodge Van wiper motor with some modifications.

Most 70s and early 80s Dodge trucks and vans used the same old 2 speed wiper motor all the A bodies did. It wasn't exactly the same, only 90% identical with different park position, 1 mounting bolt and cranks.
Around 1985 or so they all switched to a lighter more modern design shared with Caravans and other K cars of the time.

So the mounting bracket of the post 1985 mostly fits. The lower bolt holes had to move in a bit. The upper two bolt position and gasket seal were spot on.
I got this crusty example off Ebay super cheap. Technically its from a 1998-2003 Dodge Van
View attachment 1716410707

The crank has a Ball stud on the Van motor, so that needed to be changed. But its has a modern tapered SPLINE so the crank can be Clocked however you want. This is only zillion times easier than changing the park clock on the factory 2 and 3 speeds
View attachment 1716410706


I just ground off the pressed mushroom off the back of each stud, knocked it out and rewelded my old stud onto the new crank.
The Bigger the BLOB the better the JOB!
View attachment 1716410713


Here is all bolted up and ready to go. Well, nearly ready. I'm waiting on a new pigtail to come in.
It definitely needs a good cleanup.


View attachment 1716410704View attachment 1716410705

I jerry-rigged a temporary connection to test the function, and its all good imo

Click to expand...

I'm a fan of this swap and have completed a few. The inspiration was my desire to run the '80's Saginaw Steering columns and the related delay wiper control.
 
magnumduster said:
I'm a fan of this swap and have completed a few. The inspiration was my desire to run the '80's Saginaw Steering columns and the related delay wiper control.
Click to expand...

Do you have any pictures of that steering column installed in an A or B body?

I'm using this 2008 JK column.
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