A Body V8 Swap question

[Johnny Turbo]

Hi all, new here with my 1st question.

I recently purchased a 1965 Dodge Dart. I am enjoying the smooth running slat 6 for now, but I'm thinking on a v8 winter project for this winter .

Price wise and for what I heard, ease of swap I'm in the market for a 318 that I plan to do a mild build on this winter (carborator, intake manifold, aluminum heads, cam, pistons, new bearings).

I see the long threads on roller vs non roller 318s. In the end it looks like IMO the roller model edges out the flat tappet.

With that, if my assumption is correct I can just bolt a Carborator intake manifold, carb and a 904 transmission right up to it and install it into the car with the correct engine mounts, etc?

Or will more need to be done like a different distributor, and other items I'm not sure about?


Thanks in advance.

 

[DumpsterFire]

Mild build? Aluminum heads? These cars came stock with small blocks and 904s, you'll have no issues. You're asking questions that make me think you're getting in over your head though.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Yes, with the SpeedMaster heads price and decent build quality/ performance for the money i call them mild build lol. If I was going for above mild, I would go with Trick Flow, Edelbrock etc... IMO

Ok, just making sure. I believe the roller engines came fuel injection and ignitions may have been different. Just double checking a roller 318 can be converted to Carborator with just the intake and Carborator swap.

Thanks.

 

[DumpsterFire]

There's pre magnum roller cam engines but nothing is stopping you from using magnum engines with old accessories and a carb. Plenty of intakes for it.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Perfect, that's exactly what I needed to hear.

 

[66Valiant528]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

 

[DumpsterFire]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

There are headers available just not cheaply as well as old 273 manifolds

 

[DumpsterFire]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

Very easy to run mechanical pumps on magnums

 

[66Valiant528]

And 1 last observation....you can get decent gas mileage from a 318 but 360s are pigs.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

Thanks for that information!. Yeah I see TTI is about the only one that makes a decent header, but they are pricy!

 

[Johnny Turbo]

And 1 last observation....you can get decent gas mileage from a 318 but 360s are pigs.

Fair enough. I'm not to worried about that, I would be building for a fun tire killer and car show cruiser.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

I know some are and some aren't, but could you explain the internal and external balance fix?

I fully understand what it means but the "issue"?

As in make sure I get the correct harmonic balancer, flywheel torque converter?

 

[Johnny Turbo]

The biggest issue is finding good exhaust for your engine in an early A. And I'd say it's just as easy to do a 5.9 roller block. Be aware of the external balance issues and honestly I wouldn't bother with aluminum heads if you are going to run manifolds. And some roller cams do not have provision for a fuel pump eccentric which may require an electric pump. Good luck. Plenty of help here.

Is there a stock exhaust manifold that is more desirable (as far as OEM ones go)for the A bodys?

 

[junkyardhero]

mounts are easy: '63-66 A-Body Mopar 273/318 or 340/360 Kit

exhaust is the most frustrating part of the whole ordeal. cough up for headers TTI ($$$$) doug's ($$$) sanderson ($$) hunt down some factory manifolds-- the driver's side is unique ($)

you *may* need a V8 centerlink. if it's a later 65 you *might* have one already, and sometimes the right combo of pan and mounts will clear.

beyond that it's the usual: upgrade the radiator (you'll need to decide on inlet/outlet to match your waterpump/front cover), sort out the plumbing, minor electrical modifications, upgrade the brakes (discs!), upgrade the suspension (better shocks, heavier t-bars).

you don't have to go full ham on a motor. these cars are light and a mild 318 will make 'em FLY

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Sounds good. I do believe I'll need the center oil pan to clear the A Body K frame.

I didn't think about needing to upgrade the T Bars. Makes perfect sense. I'm sure the 360 would weight more than a slant 6.

I appreciate all that information.

You all are GREAT!

 

[DumpsterFire]

Is there a stock exhaust manifold that is more desirable (as far as OEM ones go)for the A bodys?

The early A bodies only have one stock manifold that'll fit nice. Some folks have managed to cram magnum ones in though.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

The early A bodies only have one stock manifold that'll fit nice. Some folks have managed to cram magnum ones in though.

Which manifold part # would that be? Or what year engines come with that manifold?

Lol or it it the only one that comes on them?

I do have power steering Which i know isn't helping for exhaust fitment.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Something like these?

 

[DumpsterFire]

Early A body 273 manifolds are the only option. That will not fit

Something like these?

View attachment 1716393343

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Ok thank you. The 273s will fit the roller 360s?

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Early A body 273 manifolds are the only option. That will not fit

Like this?

 

[Johnny Turbo]

Ok thank you. The 273s will fit the roller 360s?

Or these?

 

[Cuda416]

Early A body 273 manifolds are the only option. That will not fit

That is simply not true.

There are many examples of people putting large outlet (2-1/8") magnum manifolds in early A's as all as earlier 340 manifolds both of which are much better than the 273's. The 273 manifolds will choke the hell out of a magnum.

Sometimes some creativity is required but there are options.

 

[Professor Fate]

Or will more need to be done like a different distributor, and other items I'm not sure about?

Yes, the distributor needs to be changed. LA318 roller motors ('86ish-'91) and LA360 rollers ('88-'92) all had computer-controlled distributors, no vacuum or mechanical advance systems. An appropriate earlier factory or aftermarket LA distributor is a necessary bolt-in.

Just double checking a roller 318 can be converted to Carborator with just the intake and Carborator swap.

"Just" a manifold and carb swap? Don't forget all the ancillary parts needed just for a carb swap: throttle linkage, kickdown linkage, accelerator pedal and cable (your /6 throttle is a pivoting rod type, incompatible with the V8 application), return springs and bracket, etc. Many of which are specific to the Early As.

With that, if my assumption is correct I can just bolt a Carborator intake manifold, carb and a 904 transmission right up to it and install it into the car with the correct engine mounts, etc?

If your new motor came out of a truck, you'll need to swap to a passenger car pan/pickup/dipstick.
The transmission is going to be a whole 'nother ball of wax.
Your slant trans won't fit a V8, so a later 904 will be needed. Even a V8 trans from '65 or earlier won't fit the later LAs without a crank adapter. Then there's the linkage- '65s are a multiple cable controlled shift linkage, so for the later 904 to work you'll need to delete all that and install later ('66 and up)Steering column and linkage or factory '66 floor linkage.
And then there's the driveshaft- your '65 uses an output flange that mates to a ball and trunnion joint on the driveshaft; later trans. use a slip yoke arrangement. New driveshaft time.
And the speedo setup changes- you'll need a '66-'67 only speedo cable to mate a newer trans to your stock speedometer.

Yeah I see TTI is about the only one that makes a decent header, but they are pricy!

And Doug's. But neither fit with power steering.

Is there a stock exhaust manifold that is more desirable (as far as OEM ones go)for the A bodys?

'64-'66 A body V8 manifolds are all the same.
But they're not a direct fit to your proposed aluminum heads.

Ok thank you. The 273s will fit the roller 360s?

It's not so much if they'll fit the 360, it's the heads you're choosing. There will be interference that will need to be addressed.

 

[Johnny Turbo]

That is simply not true.

There are many examples of people putting large outlet (2-1/8") magnum manifolds in early A's as all as earlier 340 manifolds both of which are much better than the 273's. The 273 manifolds will choke the hell out of a magnum.

Sometimes some creativity is required but there are options.

That's good to hear! Thanks