A833 Installation Opinion

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n66

n66

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Hello A-Body Folks.

I am about to install my 4spd finally (thanks forabodiesonly and brewer's). My question is; What is the best way to install this beastly, cast iron, nuclear war survivable bad boy?

I can't get it into position from under the car without a course of steroids and some more time at the gym, though I can borrow a transmission jack to see if that helps. I'm limited to pump jack heights where I'm working on the car, so keep that in mind. :)

Have folks bolted it all together and tried installing it through the engine bay? I've measured and it looks like it'll fit, though it'll be tight.

I could experiment, but I bet there is a few of you that "know" the only way this goes together.

Thanks.

--Neil
 
I think it would be a lot easier to mate the motor and trans while they're out of the car and then slide the whole thing in as a unit. I've seen a lot of people do it that way. I've also seen someone remove the K frame, bolt the engine and trans up to it, then lower the body down onto it. Not the way I would go but it's been done. So my vote is for bolting it all together and installing it through the engine bay
 
I've done it both ways (though not lately)
It is easier to get the trans, clutch disc, etc lined up when the engine is out of the car. But then you would have to have the engine out too.

No doubt the iron case 833 is a lump. I first did it while lying on the floor twice when I was about 19-20 yrs old. (buddy's 68 Road Runner and my 67 Barracuda). Mine was on my parent's garage floor in cold February w/o heat (or prior experience) Those 273's had those puny 9-1/4" clutches and mine let go in the dead of winter. My buddy's was outside also in the winter on a snow-covered and muddy gravel driveway. He had tried for several days and couldn't get it done. We used nothing but muscle and did it pretty quickly. He talked about it for years after. But I digress.

You need to get the clutch disc reasonably centered and then clamped with the pressure plate. I would cut the heads off a couple hex head screws and thread them into a couple of the mounting holes in the bell housing creating a couple of guide studs. That way you can finagle the trannie a bit w/o letting the weight rest on the disc. You'll have to rotate the input shaft or trans a bit to get the slpines lined up then it slips right in. A trans jack, or floor jack adapter, would be handy to lift the weight but it still has to line up. Otherwise you need two guys to lift it.

If i ever get around to putting a 4 speed in my 68, that's how I will do it, on the floor laying on cardboard.
 
KosmicKuda said:
... I would cut the heads off a couple hex head screws and thread them into a couple of the mounting holes in the bell housing creating a couple of guide studs. That way you can finagle the trannie a bit w/o letting the weight rest on the disc. ...
Click to expand...

This was handy advice my dad and I figured out on our own when I've installed my trans a few times. The transmission jack is definitely helpful as in my case at least the back of the shifter pad runs into the back of the hump in the floor, so you have to pull the trans back a bit, then tilt down, then back a bit, then down more, etc. until it clears the clutch disk. The main problem with the 833 is that it's round and non-symmetric on the bottom, so it doesn't like to sit on a trans jack plate very well. Even chained to it it like to flop a little side to side.

All that being said, I've never had any luck trying to install an engine and transmission together as a unit. The only car I've had any success doing it on was a front wheel drive, so that's basically cheating, lol. You have to tilt the engine so far to get it to clear the radiator core support and tunnel that we didn't have enough adjustment on our tipper thing you put on the engine hoist (whatever it's called) to get it done when we tried on a 69 Charger. If you can take the core support and front end off the car it would be way easier to go that route, but I've never had that luxury.
 
Get yourself four pieces of redi rod that screw into the back of the bell housing about 6'' long.
Side the transmission over the redi rods installed.
This takes the weight off of the front of the transmission while you wiggle it in place from the back.
Have the transmission in gear and turn the back of the output shaft while you wiggle it.
DO NOT try to suck it in with the 4 transmission bolts. It should go in fairly easily by wiggling it and pushing on the back.
You must have the clutch aligned with a proper alignment tool first and the pressure plate torqued to specs or it won't go in.
Won't go in and you didn't have an alignment tool?
Well the quick and dirty way is to do what i said before and have someone push on the clutch slightly so it will move around until you get the trans in and fully seated on the bell housing.
Install the rear transmission mount and slide in bolts and tighten finger tight.
Remove the redi rods and install the transmission bolts one at a time starting with the top ones.
Then tighten all bolts to specs.
Install shifter and rods.
Adjust clutch free play.
 
What Dartnut said.I use a floor jack get it up in the air and close to the rods then I man handle it the rest of the way.
 
I have done this many many times, a few times at the drag strip , its not hard at all and a floor jack works fine, you can align the clutch with a plastic alignment tool or if your using a stock bellhousing u can leave the pressure plate bolts loose so u have room to line up the splines. Like a previous poster said DO NOT USE THE BOLTS TO PULL THE TRANS IN it usually ends up in breaking of one or more trans case ears . If the engine is out bolt it all together it goes in quite easy that way without alot of effort .
 
Use a small come-a-long roped around the torsion bars, finish it off with a jack. Ever since I started using this trick, trans swaps are way easier. Did a 250lb trans transfer case swap with ease.
 
I don't know how young ya'all are. If you are doing this "on a floor" and have a floor jack, and if the jack hasn't got a decent size "cup" fab one up to cradle the box. You can move the box around a bit to tilt it.

PUT THE BOX into reverse and any forward gear you can get it into. This will allow you to wiggle the box, and engage the splines.

4 bolts? Really. Have you ACTUALLY done this? I've TRIED. I've never got this to WORK. Even in a RR with "lots of room," there isn't room to get that big box onto 4 big pins sticking out of the bell.

I've had BETTER luck with only ONE alignment pin, and you want a SMOOTH one, not threaded rod. You want something that you can slide the box onto. I got a long bolt (been years, 8"? long, and sawed the head off and SLOTTED the end for a screwdriver so I can screw and remove it if bound up.

This ONE pin will allow you to take much of the weight off "you" but will still leave the box "flexible" so you can "wiggle" it and move it and get the splines engaged.

Then, when you get the opposite corner "from the pin" "close," use a fairly long bolt in that corner, perhaps 4" or so long to just "throw in there" quickly. This will provide additional alignment if needed.

I used to be a scrawny sombich and I used to be able to pull this off.................

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n66 said:
Have folks bolted it all together and tried installing it through the engine bay? I've measured and it looks like it'll fit, though it'll be tight.
Click to expand...

As an assembly, yeah it's tight. A 440 with a deep pan and scatter shield into a '69 barracuda, I've found I need to raise front of the car a few inches as the pan likes to hang on the k-frame and/or the shield on the firewall hump.
The first 4 spd (and two 727s prior) I put in my '68 runner I used the roll method. You know, the one where you roll the trans onto your chest then try like hell to put it into the clutch with your arms and knees. To be 17 again!
 
Are you converting from an automatic?

If so, make very sure that you have the correct pilot bushing or bearing in the crank. Without that, its not going in.
 
Ok, that helps and gives me plenty to work with. Love this site.

I'll post a picture when I'm done tomorrow. :)
 
I use two pieces of all thread, diagonal from each other. You MUST have the engine tilted so the bell housing is pointing down. If not, good luck.

I also leave the pressure plate bolts slightly loose so the disc can be moved. Never had much luck with the cheapass alignment tool.
 
Quick update, almost got it together, but it looks like the pilot bearing is the wrong one. found another thread talking about this and will update you guys when I actually have it in. Just wanted to say thanks again, tips helped.

--Neil
 
I will second the idea of loosening pressure plate bolts. After wrestling with that cast iron pig for several hours and still being stuck at 1" out, I rotated the motor by hand to loosen all six pressure plate bolts, and the trans slipped in almost immediately. Thanks guys!
 
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