A833 OD shift mechanism

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Johnny71dusty

Johnny71dusty

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Are the 4 speed over drive mechanisms any different than the standard 4 speed mechanism ?
 
I remember talking with Brewers on the phone. He said this won't work. I don't know enough to know if that's true or not.
 
limegreen70 said:
I remember talking with Brewers on the phone. He said this won't work. I don't know enough to know if that's true or not.
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I would trust Brewers for sure. I have an OD and a shifter and it looks just like the one in the link I posted.
 
I have BOTH a regular A833 and an A833od.
I have used the very same shifter on either of mine, and the very same shift-rods too.
But
on my set-ups;
the standard offset 3-4 outside lever, when you invert it, and install it on the od trans, gets clocked differently. Since it's off set, I cannot just reverse it, cuz it rubs on the other shiftrod.
So, I needed that 3-4 lever from the od-box, which, fortunately for me, I had.
But like I said, the shift mechanism is the same one, and works on either trans..
 
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AJ/FormS said:
I have BOTH a regular A833 and an A833od.
I have used the very same shifter on either of mine, and the very same shift-rods too.
But
on my set-ups;
the standard offset 3-4 outside lever, when you invert it, and install it on the od trans, gets clocked differently. Since it's off set, I cannot just reverse it, cuz it rubs on the other shiftrod.
So, I needed that 3-4 lever from the od-box, which, fortunately for me, I had.
But like I said, the shift mechanism is the same one, and works on either one..
Click to expand...
I was hoping you would chine in.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I have BOTH a regular A833 and an A833od.
I have used the very same shifter on either of mine, and the very same shift-rods too.
But
on my set-ups;
the standard offset 3-4 outside lever, when you invert it, and install it on the od trans, gets clocked differently. Since it's off set, I cannot just reverse it, cuz it rubs on the other shiftrod.
So, I needed that 3-4 lever from the od-box, which, fortunately for me, I had.
But like I said, the shift mechanism is the same one, and works on either trans..
Click to expand...
The rods I have are right I think . But wanted to make about the mechanism
 
I fitted a 71-74 B body lever set (the set for the bench seat mounting point) to an OD unit from a truck.

Flipping the 3-4 lever worked just fine.
 
To adjust your shifter correctly

1. Start by installing the levers only on the transmission (numbers/letters facing out). Use blue loctite and lighten the nuts to 200 inch pounds. Find neutral position for the 3/4 lever (front top lever) and the 1/2 lever (Rear top lever). Move the reverse lever (Bottom lever) all the way forward. This centers the internal transmission parts.

2. Align the shifter indexes (right under shifter body) many OEM reverse levers are not drilled for an alignment pin.

3. Adjust the rods and swivels to the shifter arm and transmission arm holes without moving either arms.

4. If there is any binding you may be one turn off one way or the other. The center of the shifter has to aligned very close because of the transmission interlocks and shifter arm pass throughs.

Picture of O/D linkage

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P1010041.JPG
 
Yeah I did all that several times repeated .
66fs said:
To adjust your shifter correctly

1. Start by installing the levers only on the transmission (numbers/letters facing out). Use blue loctite and lighten the nuts to 200 inch pounds. Find neutral position for the 3/4 lever (front top lever) and the 1/2 lever (Rear top lever). Move the reverse lever (Bottom lever) all the way forward. This centers the internal transmission parts.

2. Align the shifter indexes (right under shifter body) many OEM reverse levers are not drilled for an alignment pin.

3. Adjust the rods and swivels to the shifter arm and transmission arm holes without moving either arms.

4. If there is any binding you may be one turn off one way or the other. The center of the shifter has to aligned very close because of the transmission interlocks and shifter arm pass throughs.

Picture of O/D linkage

View attachment 1716093342

I've done all this many times over . Talking to brewers and few other folks the general consensus is it's the shift mechanism itself jamming . Not the rods adjustment as it's set just as you and all the experts say. The shifter mechansim binds . But I can move the shift tabs & rods easily by hand but the shifter with no amount of wiggle : banging or pushing will unstick it . But two fingers on the rod can with ease . This tells me and other that it's not the trans itself but the mechanism . I pulled reserve rod totally off and still Jams , pulled 3/4 off and still jams. The shift mechanism what I'm seeing in videos and sent to some folks is just way rattly and loose and sloppy. I'm going to buy a new one I guess . No worries . Part of buying old used stuff
Click to expand...
 
Johnny71dusty said:
I can't sent you videos or pictures here or in email for some reason.
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You can post links to You Tube video but not the video themselves. You have to be a Gold member to be able to post photos in private messages.
 
Johnny71dusty said:
Again my rods are fine but my mechansim I think is jamming
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If you are trying to shift this unit on the bench, then, yes it can jam;
But if no, this is not your circumstance; then you can skip the rest of this post.

>This jamming, with the A833, happens all the time and here's why;
the stinking brass gets in the way.
What I mean is this; with the input gear Not spinning, then neither is the cluster nor any of the M/S gears. So when you try to select a gear, the slider moves out, with the struts in tow. The struts push the brass ahead which very often instantly clamps the brake cone of whatever gear you are selecting, because it is not spinning. Now, if the brass has jammed a half-a-tooth off, the slider has no way to move it over, and there it stays. You the shifter-guy interpret this as having jammed.
Now, lets say you give up on that gear and go to select a different gear. It can happen that this different gear lines up somewhat perfectly, or the brass doesn't grab the brake cone quite as hard, so you get a successful bench shift. But it can also happen that the first gear that you earlier selected is still jammed and so, effectively, the trans is now sortof in two gears at once, and neither the Input gear Nor the M/S can be rotated...... until you force the brass to let go, by sternly rotating one of those two shafts. This will uncouple the non-selected brass from the brake, and now the input can be rotated.
I repeat, this is a common occurrence with this trans because in most cases, the brass blocker-rings do an excellent job.
I can assure you that once you install the trans, this will only ever happen if BOTH the driveshaft and the clutch disc have simultaneously come to a stop, which is sort of a rarity, unless you have a lot of clutch-departure; and it mostly only ever happens in First gear.
The cure for this is to select a gear before the car comes to a complete stop.
But, if this does happen atta stop, then just take your foot off the clutch, which will then spin up the input gear, then put the pedal down and try again; "snick", in it will go. Boy; there's a word you don't get to use very often!

>By the way. Most of your shifting problems will come from the levers shifting on the shift-studs where the nuts are. Those slots and pins, almost universally have been banged out over the years, and the nuts cannot hold an adjustment. The cure for me, has been to take the nuts off, and fill the cavity with red loc-tite, which dries hard as glass, then re-install the nuts. I do this with the cover on the bench so that I can lay the cover down on it's face in an effort to prevent the loc-tite from wicking up the pin, cuz if it does, it will be impossible to shift. Further, while the Loc-tite is curing, I go over and shift the thing to make sure it is not seizing. So far this strategy has always worked.
But I have also had to do this with the trans installed. My guess is that I have been pretty lucky cuz, again, so far no lock-ups have occurred, even tho, I don't spare the Loc-tite.

>As for biasing the shifter for a fast 2-3 shift;
I used to do that too, and It does work.
But around town , granny shifting, if the mechanism is working correctly, I found it to often be annoying.

>Oh yeah, the reason that the brass has sharp pointy teeth on it, is to steer the slider and clutch-teeth into alignment, for to complete the shift.
While driving, now,
If the brass grabs the brake before alignment occurs, then the shift, very often cannot be completed. or
If the strut springs are lazy, then the struts may not keep up with the slider and now the gear you are trying to select will not stop in a timely manner, but you don't know this is happening in these micro-seconds, until the slider smacks into the still-spinning gear and you force the shift with the shifter.
It grinds a lil, and at first, you don't register a problem.
But, over time, the teeth get all chipped off, and the slider is grinding more and more, and in frustration, you take the trans down, see the damage, and order all new parts as may be required. But say you do not replace the strut springs, and so now you are going down the same road again.
The cure for this, is rarely, replacing the springs.
The cure is to de-glaze the brake cones and prefitting the brass to make sure they bite, and sit high on the brake cones; and finally, to stretch those stinking strut springs out a ways, to create more pressure on the struts, so that they have to keep up to the slider, for as long as possible.

>Finally, as to oil.
My recommendation is to run 100% Dextron II. This will give you the fastest shifts, if the brake-cones are biting. However, that ATF is not particularly good for protecting the cluster pin from wearing ...... so I run 50% EPL, Extreme Pressure Lubricant such as 85/90 gear-oil, and now I no longer have to replace worn pins.
I also cannot recommend any full-synthetic lubricant, which IMHO, is just too slippery, and provides way more wear-protection than is necessary.
My experience goes like this;
I installed it and immediately ran into slow shifting, and at 7200 that sucks. Even at 6000 it was slower than the Full ATF.
I took the trans down, FOUR times that week, trying to make it work. I cut channels in the brake cones. I cut channels in the brass, I biased the polish on the cones. And finally, I ground out every second tooth on the Second-gear clutch teeth, and also on the sliders.This worked pretty good, But just for the heck of it, I took the trans down and apart,one more time, and thoroughly washed that Full-synthetic trans oil out, then replaced it with a fresh charge of 50/50,
Holy cow! Now it shifted like lightning.
I was so impressed, I took it down yet again, and slick-shifted Third as well.
I am a streeter, running 3.55s, So I didn't bother modifying "Fourth". Nor First, cuz who speed-shifts down into First, not me! And, top of Third gear for me is 113mph @7000, so I don't need to get into Fourth in any hurry. And it's a stinking lot of work cutting those teeth out.
Now; that was, IDK 2003 or maybe 4, and the trans has not been apart since. I'm a happy happy guy.
 
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It's fully rebuilt trans and has no miles on it . It James worse when running and driving I only dry shifting in my videos so you can hear me explain how and what's going on as I can repeat what it's doing over and over again . My shifter mechanism as well looks to be fully brand new rebuild seems all parts on and inside it are new. I wish this fuxking site would let us post videos . I mean what good is a social media / forum good for is we can't share videos on what we are here trying to share and learn . It's 2023 guys
 
Johnny71dusty said:
. It James worse when running and driving
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Hang on Johnny, we'll figure this out.
In this case, when you say jams, there are several ways to define this jamming.
First, lets talk about a regular H-pattern shifter.
The most common jamming is that when you pull the stick out of say Second gear heading for third gear, the shift-gate has NOT returned to neutral. The only cause for this that I have ever found is a loose nut on the 1-2 shift lever that is bolted to the trans. In this case, the 1-2 shift rod can end up hanging several degrees outside of the neutral gate, and to get to third or fourth gear on the other side of the gate, you gotta wrestle with the shifter. Eventually the gate lines up, and you can get thru it.
This cannot be fixed by aligning the gate and just tightening the loose nut; it will happen again. This is a common occurrence when there is wear between the lever and it's pin. The cure is to fill that cavity with loc-tite-red, as explained previously.
Another thing that can hang you up is those goofy QD curly rod retainers. I throw those out install washers to zero-clearance and then install cotter-pins. At the case, the curly thingies can stay.
Another thing that can hang you up is a dirty shift mechanism, or one that has been greased! Your shifter has to be clean, dry, not oiled and especially, not greased. The guts of that thing are like a Swiss-Watch. When you select First gear, you hammer the shifter towards your big right leg ( Ok my big right leg). This causes a precision "bolt" to move from it's neutral position, thru a thin aligning shim, and into the lever that will then be able to engage the the shift rods to do their trick. But that "bolt", has to stop in the exact right position, in it's left/right travels, and to that end, there is another thin stopping shim.
Now when you pull the stick out of Second, going to Third, that "bolt" is now spring-loaded with a powerfull spring. and so, as it comes to the shift window, the spring is supposed to fire that bolt thru the gate towards the 3-4 lever. As it does so, it hits a stopper shim on the other side, which aligns it to the 3-4 lever, and now it is ready to engage Third (or Fourth). If all the shims and levers are in alignment, and the "bolt" is energized, this will happen all by itself with No help from the operator and in an instant. If this device/mechanism is assembled correctly, aligned, and the bolt-spring has the power it left the factory with, then there is NO WAY for this device to ever hang up. I have been using the same shifter since the 70s with only ever one cleaning, which I did just because. I'll guess that this shifter has over 300,000 miles on it. It never misses.
Ok so what keeps the shims aligned (not the levers) ? Well, they are sorta rippled, and when you tighten that front bolt, external to the mechanism (I think it's on the front; and some don't have it) this causes the shims to expand ever so slightly which then jams them into posoition. If your mechanism does not have that external bolt, then this will be done with the lower of the two mounting bolts.
Now, in some shifters, those shims are NOT rippled but are flat. However, they are thicker and sturdier, and don't make any trouble.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that your shifter is NOT the problem.
Next, we come to a ***** of a thing which is the reverse interlock. It can happen that it rubs on the 1-2 lever. Which them makes trouble when coming out of Second going thru the gate. In this case the 1-2 shift fork may not come exactly back to the neutral detent on the pre-1971 covers. There has just enough slack in those for this to happen, and when it does, the 1-2 rod does not normalize back at the shifter, which them hangs the "bolt" up from scooting thru the gate.
The cure for this is, usually, to just loosen the side cover and force it up, then tighten her dowm again. But you have to prove that this has worked by disconnecting ALL the shift rods, leaving the levers on the nutted-pins, and then selecting reverse. if reverse snicks in and out, without undue force; and with reverse NOT engaged, the 1-2 lever snicks in and out without strain, then she's ready to go.
With the trans assembled with the parts it left the factory with, this is rarely an issue. Usually this is only an issue if the cover was changed or the internal reverse lever was, then it is possible for that interlock to be too tight. The cure is replace the internal lever with one that has more clearance, or to modify the interlock that you have, or to just raise the cover.
I cannot think of anything else right now, and it's long past dinner, so, I gotta go, lol.
But before I do, I want to repeat, most if not all shifting problems of this sort, stem from the levers moving under the nuts. Red loc-tite them and maybe your problems will go away.
 
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