Aftermarket Lock Ring Problems may be Solved. Please Read.

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PhillH

PhillH

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Fellow forum members,
Some of you know my problem and some some of you know your own problem with aftermarket fuel tank lockrings. I purchased a tank kit with the new fuel tank, sender and gasket lockring set from TomsClassics. I had a post where I griped about the problems I have had with it leaking, I ended up buying a NOS lockring a gracious member here that had the foresight to grab them when he found them and sell to us having problems. A big thanks to Halifaxhops.
I have been going back and forth with Andy at TomsClassics and although I was not real happy in some of the emails he is genuinely concerned with the issue. He wants to know the thickness of the OEM lockrings so he can specify that gauge metal from the manufacturer. I for one am glad to see a company not give the usual runaround installation excuses and actually address the problem. I also mentioned to him about selling the lockring kit as a separate item for those that need it. So if I could get some of you machinist types to give a measurement in what gauge it is, and maybe they need it in MM's it would be helpful, my micrometer is rather cheap.
They already know the complaints, so let's not do that here. They may be reading this so let's give them a little support as to why this needs done.
 
I'm pretty new to this particular problem, but in my case the fuel tank leaking has been that the new "O" rings are too small in diameter. Am I the only one who's had this issue?
 
Did you have the option of comparing them, I had no issues with the gasket, except that when the lockring leaked it turned the new tank strap silencer to complete disintegration. I think those should be fuelsafe as well, but one issue at a time.
 
Sorry about the dirty old original part and cell phone picture.
My sheet metal gauge shows it to be 14ga. or .064
I am very sure about this. Fit perfectly into the 14 gauge slot.
13 & 15 ga. Not even close.
 

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This is for sure a lock ring problem. I used the new gasket with the one I got and my old lock ring and all is well. so I doubt it is the gasket. (Unless there are multiple manf making them)
 
The company should have done it's research before coming out with the product. It's not our responsibility to engineer it for him afterwards... For free...

Maybe they should buy one or two from Hops....
 
I will be very surprised if "they" change something for "us".
 
The lock ring thickness is in my opinion the lesser of the 2 flaws. Very few are satisfied with how the reproduction sender reports actual fuel level. Why they didn't reproduce the longer straighter A-body sender is still a mystery to me.
 
Hmmmm.
I bought a new Specra brand tank with a new sending unit and lock ring and installed it in my Dart Sport build on here.
To this day there have been no leaks and the gas gauge works perfectly.
I would buy another set from them in a heart beat.
On the other side of the coin, a friend of mine with a '71 Demon had his tank resealed at a local radiator shop and put in a new sender with lock ring and it leaked. He had to reuse the stock lock ring to remedy this, a big hassle IMO.
So my best guess is that a stock tank is a different thickness where the sending unit goes in and seals as opposed to using the new set up which works fine together..........
 
ssba said:
Sorry about the dirty old original part and cell phone picture.
My sheet metal gauge shows it to be 14ga. or .064
I am very sure about this. Fit perfectly into the 14 gauge slot.
13 & 15 ga. Not even close.
Click to expand...
14 ga for steel is .075" .064" is 14 ga for aluminum; so you should check your gauge to see if it is for ferrous or non-ferrous gauging.

.075" agrees closely with the 2.0 mm that Phill reported in another post. (I am not where I can measure one for a few days.)
 
PhillH said:
They already know the complaints, so let's not do that here. They may be reading this so let's give them a little support as to why this needs done.
Click to expand...

Because I only have a few left!:glasses7:
 
I did measure them the stock seems to be 14 GA and the aftermarket on I got with the sender was about 16 GA which prompted my search for them.
 
That seems about right 14 gauge, as far as the sending units, sure it would be nice to have them just go in and be right, but that's a whole different manufacturer and a different subject, one thing at a time.
 
Also, the problem isn't exclusive to tanks for Mopar's, this is affecting lots of makes, so they would not be just helping "us". This should have been researched prior but can't we be glad someone is addressing it now?
 
nm9stheham said:
14 ga for steel is .075" .064" is 14 ga for aluminum; so you should check your gauge to see if it is for ferrous or non-ferrous gauging.

.075" agrees closely with the 2.0 mm that Phill reported in another post. (I am not where I can measure one for a few days.)
Click to expand...

The gauge I used is marked .064 for 14 ga. I didn't use a micrometer.
It is an old McGrath StPaul American Wire Gage. Probably made in the 50s or earlier.
Gauge stamped on one side decimal equivalent stamped on the opposite.
 

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I measured mine again, this is the original and I had to sand off the undercoating spray to try and get an accurate measurement. Also it is 44 yrs old so the thickness is corroded in different areas. THe average I got was 2.0 MM's or .80 inches. The replacements that came with the kit average from different spots is 1.20 MM's or .50 inches, now the caliper I have is not very exspensive but is digital and I took it in several spots to get an average.
So all things being equal, that is quite a big difference, surely it's going to fit much tighter with an .80 MM difference.
 
Also, my tank is full and still sealing without a drop. It's the spectra tank with Halifax's OEM lockring. If TomsClassic's will get these made at the 2.0 MM's we will have a go to kit to recommend every time this comes up. Now won't that be nice?
 
Phil,, I got back home and just now measured the thickness of one of ther OEM lock rings from HalifaxHops. It is NOWHERE nearly as thick as you reported; the thickness is .047-.048" which is about 1.2 mm. (That is measured with a dial caliper that has an accuracy of .001" at this small range.) And the .064" (14 AWG) measurement reported on this thread is very different.

The one thing I noticed is that this ring is very stiff; I can't bend it by hand. The cheaper new ones, I can bend by hand. So.... the material of the ring now looks to be a/the factor at issue.

I am going to try to find the aftermarket ring that I have somewhere and measure it.
 
That would be great it you could measure the aftermarket, also did you measure on an area that wasn't stamped, this may affect it. I too noticed that the OEM ring was very stiff, no way you could bend it, while the aftermarket ring was much more flexible. Since these only hold on three points to secure the whole 360 degrees, having metal that won't flex seems like it would be very important. Once you get a measurement up I'm going to forward them the link to this.
 
I made sure to measure only on a flat area. BTW, I am not sure where these items from Halifaxhops came from....there are absolutely no marks on them and no hint of a Mopar PN.
 
My son removed the cheapo lock ring and installed one from HalifaxHops. I measured the cheapo ring and .... drumroll...... the thickness is .047"....identical!

The cheapo ring is easier to bend and distort; both will flex some by hand but the one form HalifaxHops will not permanently distort; the cheapo one will distort. So, I am thinking this is a materials problem, not a sizing problem.

The cheapo one might have also been slightly smaller in diameter, maybe .1" at most,, but that is hard to be sure with the distortion in that one. The height of the locking 'nubs' to the flat area is within .001 or .002".
 
Ok, these may not all be the same aftermarket rings. When I had the two together, I could see a difference in thickness with my naked eyes, I thought maybe I should mark them so I didn't mix them up, but after looking I didn't bother because it was so easy to tell them apart.
 
I would not be surprised.....so where do you go now with the info? It sounds like you need to accurately measure both of yours......
 
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