All cylinders filling with water

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Very unlikely that an intake manifold would be so cracked or porous that it could feed coolant to all the cylinders from the front passages & provide enough flow to fill all the cylinders with water. A leaking timing cover would explain the water in the oil but not the water in the cylinders. Water flowing in the opposite direction isn't going to leak any more than it would going in the right direction.
If there is a clamping force problem(head studs/ gaskets etc) on 1 side & the same type fasteners were used it would stand to reason that it would leak on the other side as well. I'm with crackedback & moper on this one.
A few years ago I bought a Mustang with a 5.0L in it that the guy I got it from put RTV sealer on the head gaskets & it ran until it started to get hot & then it did the exact same thing as what the OP is dealing with here. The only difference is I knew what was done already.
 
MiradaMegaCab said:
Is the water ports/thermostat housing isolated or connected to the intake runners/plenum on the M1 intake manifold?
When pressure testing the cooling system, leave the carb off to see if any water is getting in that way.
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No it is not. There is only 1 water log and it is at the front of the intake at the thermostat.

See the picture in post #120
 
This is not my best area I admitt but I am thinking there is a crack on one of the intake ports on one of the heads. When that valve is closed it could be sucking water across the intake resulting in water in all 8 cylinders.
 
****..no one has posted anything in over half hour.....lol
 
I'd say call that Hunting Bigfoot show, this problem has sasquach fingerprints all over it.
 
I have read through this thread and I haven't really seen anyone ask:

When you removed the heads were there any impressions in the gaskets?

Did you chase the threads out in the holes? And blow them out with compressed air?

Did you use any sealant of any kind on the studs?

What order did you torque the head bolts in?

Did you torque in steps or all at once? For example snug, 35, 65, 90.

When tightening with the torque wrench are you using a nice steady pull or a kind of jerky motion at the end?

If you have a set of calipers try measuring the thickness of the used gasket around the cylinder holes. What do you get?
 
another random thought : studs have to be torqued properly , im wondering if they were just screwed in till they stop and then when he tightened the nuts down and fired it the combo of the vibration heat and expansion of the parts caused them to loosen enough that it pulled water into the cylinders .
for that matter it may have only been 1 on each side not properly torqued or backed out enough that once water got in it forced it between cylinders .12:1 compression is a fairly tight piston to combustion chamber clearance and all that water has to go somewhere in a hurry since it cant compress it .
even a bad set of gaskets could cause it if it got bent in 1 corner enough to create a low spot by just 1 water jacket . dont know just a few thoughts i had .
im hoping for his sake that nothing else was damaged such as the rods pistons or crank if there was that much water in it
 
I would still like to know what kind of heads are on this motor, but the OP never gave an answer...?????
 
fanofpetty said:
I would still like to know what kind of heads are on this motor, but the OP never gave an answer...?????
Click to expand...

i was wondering that too . are they stock heads that had work done ? or are they aluminum heads ,if so what brand and have they been worked over ?
i never seen any mention of that at all .
 
OldmanRick said:
I actually considered that....split down both sides of the valley and torquing the heads opened it up.

Tell ya' what, if that's it, i'll give you the prize as soon as i get back from California beating his machinists brains out....:D:D:D.
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I thought that as well at first.Thought maybe the guy had left straight water in it for awhile before he started it and it froze and busted.I saw a 289 in a Mustang freeze and bust on both decks between most of the water jackets.It contaminated the oil ,but it also ran like crap with the water in the combustion process .This guy was saying it ran well for 5 minutes ,so i kinda put that theory on the bottom of the pile .At this point i am really getting mixed up with this one :banghead: ???
 
ohiocowboy1277 said:
another random thought : studs have to be torqued properly , im wondering if they were just screwed in till they stop and then when he tightened the nuts down and fired it the combo of the vibration heat and expansion of the parts caused them to loosen enough that it pulled water into the cylinders .
for that matter it may have only been 1 on each side not properly torqued or backed out enough that once water got in it forced it between cylinders .12:1 compression is a fairly tight piston to combustion chamber clearance and all that water has to go somewhere in a hurry since it cant compress it .
even a bad set of gaskets could cause it if it got bent in 1 corner enough to create a low spot by just 1 water jacket . dont know just a few thoughts i had .
im hoping for his sake that nothing else was damaged such as the rods pistons or crank if there was that much water in it
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This is exactly what I was thinking. The first time I went with ARP recomendations. Finger tight, using there prep grease. This time I used loctite and double nutted the studs and torqued each one in at 30. The tightening sequence is 35, 70, 110 of torque. This is the stud tightening sequence I used.

8 4 1 5 9
7 3 2 6 10

fanofpetty said:
I would still like to know what kind of heads are on this motor, but the OP never gave an answer...?????
Click to expand...
Sorry for the delay, but needed some sleep. Post #26 has a complete list from this engine.

J Heads 2.02 / 1.60
 
The Shocker said:
I thought that as well at first.Thought maybe the guy had left straight water in it for awhile before he started it and it froze and busted.I saw a 289 in a Mustang freeze and bust on both decks between most of the water jackets.It contaminated the oil ,but it also ran like crap with the water in the combustion process .This guy was saying it ran well for 5 minutes ,so i kinda put that theory on the bottom of the pile .At this point i am really getting mixed up with this one :banghead: ???
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Hey Shocker, I just saw your hometown. My family has been there since the late 1800`s. I still have a bunch of family there. Instead of hauling the Dart to the MATS. I should bring it to Sherman and visit family and you can get a first hand look at it.
 
My feeling is heads. I have a pair of "J"s sitting in my garage that leak like sieves just sitting still, they are ported as well....
 
HemiTM said:
The tightening sequence is 35, 70, 110 of torque. This is the stud tightening sequence I used.

8 4 1 5 9
7 3 2 6 10
Click to expand...


Hmmm........... I usually use this sequence.
 

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HemiTM said:
The first time I went with ARP recomendations. Finger tight, using there prep grease. This time I used loctite and double nutted the studs and torqued each one in at 30.
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Oh boy...

Good way to distort the deck.

ARP kind of knows why they recommend certain procedures. How's the stud going to come loose? The nut you are tightening is turning the same direction as driving the stud into the block.

Did you ever identify where the water intrusion originated from?

Is this the solid lifters on the hyd cam deal too?
 
From what you describe I'm getting the idea that maybe the way you're tightening the studs and the sequence you're using might actually be causing your problem. Still seems crazy but if you did both heads the same way then I guess it stands to reason.

So yeah.

Loctite=bad especially when torquing something. All you need is a minimal amount of lube. Loctice creates heat when tightened which is exactly what you don't want.

Double nuts=bad, especially when torquing. You're probably torquing the top nut into the bottom one while likely twisting a Loctited stud. You're lucky not to have broken them off in the block.

BTW, do you really need head studs? Could you just use plain old head bolts?
 
I thought when it comes to most studs, they need to be installed finger tight...no wrenches...I've never heard of someone locktiting them and putting a double nut on them to torque them....That sounds like bad news....dunno if I woulda done that...
 
IMO, His torque sequence isn't going to make a bit of difference.
 
Sequence is the same. It don't matter what head is used.

ARP recommends thread sealer to be used in the studs next to the water ports which would be the two up front by the timing cover. I usually use some RTV Black on the bottom of those studs and then ARP Lube on the threads. I also chase all threads with a bottom tap and then install the studs "Finger Tight" until the hit bottom and then back them up about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.

After I install the studs I spend at least 1 hour prepping the deck and head surfaces to make sure they are SUPER Clean. I also spray my Cometic Gaskets with Copper coat before I install them. I then install the heads lube the bottom of the washers, top of washers and the threads and then torque ALL studs to spec. I use a 5 sequence instead of a 3 sequence... But when I start torquing them I do not stop until each head is complete. No jerking of the torque wrench to hear it click. Smooth continuous motions until the wrench clicks. It is a work out.

I have used Cometic gaskets a lot and I have never had them leak doing it with the directions I posted above even when the surfaces were not machined smooth to accept them.
 
Mad Dart said:
Sequence is the same. It don't matter what head is used.

ARP recommends thread sealer to be used in the studs next to the water ports which would be the two up front by the timing cover. I usually use some RTV Black on the bottom of those studs and then ARP Lube on the threads. I also chase all threads with a bottom tap and then install the studs "Finger Tight" until the hit bottom and then back them up about 1/4 to 1/2 a turn.

After I install the studs I spend at least 1 hour prepping the deck and head surfaces to make sure they are SUPER Clean. I also spray my Cometic Gaskets with Copper coat before I install them. I then install the heads lube the bottom of the washers, top of washers and the threads and then torque ALL studs to spec. I use a 5 sequence instead of a 3 sequence... But when I start torquing them I do not stop until each head is complete.

I have used Cometic gaskets a lot and I have never had them leak doing it with the directions I posted above even when the surfaces were not machined smooth to accept them.
Click to expand...

yup..put lube under and on top of the washers...usually only 3 sequence...getting old..that last one at 105 about kills me...LOL
 
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