Am I a Dumbass or what

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MileHighDart said:
I'd say 1/2", its actually sticking out the bottom of the hole just slightly, maybe 1/8"
Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can get ahold of the bottom end with some small vice grips or something and see if I can turn it, if so I could screw it on through and out the bottom.
Tried the punch ground to a point to try and get it to turn, but its down in the hole enough that I can only hit it in one place, cant go back and forth across the flutes.
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If you try and grab the bottom with vice grips the tap will crumble, it's just not soft enough for the vice grips to bite into, it's like trying to grab a hold of a piece of glass with vice grips (won't work). Can you use your pointed punch to try and make it back out from the bottom?? Remember, once you get it to break loose you're halfway home if you take your time.

Treblig
 
if you've got access to a dc tig torch with a remote foot pedal you can get pretty precise with the arc with a long sharp tiped thoriated tungsten to heat it up red. make sure the tungston tip is ground correctly to get a fine arc at the tip. Like someone said, get it red hot...don't melt it and let it air cool then drill it out with a carbide bit. Done this before with success in stainless and mild steel, it works with a steady hand and patients. never had to do it...yet...in cast iron. An EDM would be my preferred method...but who has the cash for that....
Edit...If it's sticking out the bottom you can tap it lightly on both sides to possibly loosen it up some giving a tap extractor a better chance of success
 
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MileHighDart said:
I'd say 1/2", its actually sticking out the bottom of the hole just slightly, maybe 1/8"
Tomorrow I'm going to see if I can get ahold of the bottom end with some small vice grips or something and see if I can turn it, if so I could screw it on through and out the bottom.
Tried the punch ground to a point to try and get it to turn, but its down in the hole enough that I can only hit it in one place, cant go back and forth across the flutes.
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You need to screw it back up out. Continuing to screw it in in the direction you were going when it broke isn't going to work at all.
 
69_340_GTS said:
You need to screw it back up out. Continuing to screw it in in the direction you were going when it broke isn't going to work at all.
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Well I don't think it broke because it was too tight, as I was rotating it I hit my knuckles on the rocker arms and kind of jerked my hand back and and a little sideways and it snapped.
 
I've done it ONCE !! Once I say. That's all I want to say.
I've faced my fear since (on the nabors mustang-LOL)
and I don't play with that tool. That thing!!....&!/#$@^#&
 
MileHighDart said:
Well I don't think it broke because it was too tight, as I was rotating it I hit my knuckles on the rocker arms and kind of jerked my hand back and and a little sideways and it snapped.
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This information makes a BIG difference!! If it didn't snap because it bottomed out or because it got in a bind then it shouldn't be "stuck" tight in the threads, making it easier to rotate. That's why I was suggesting to try and get it to move by tapping on it with a pointed punch and tapping on it "lightly" with a hammer. A tap extractor should break it loose pretty easy if it's not stuck in place. If you hit it too hard with a small hammer pieces will break off leaving you less to work with. But since it's in a "thru" hole it does make it easier to break up into pieces and remove each piece slowly. You can use a small (very small) chisel and a small pointed punch to slowly break it into pieces. The chisel and the punch will end up with some damage because the tap is hard but you can regrind the tools. The trick is to go slowly, take your time and remove pieces of the broken tap with needle nose, tweezers and a scribe. It's kinda like performing a delicate operation on an operating table. As pieces break off remove them or they will interfere with the operation. You might even (I've done this before) use some really skinny needle nose pliers by sticking the tips into the flukes. If it's not stuck it might rotate. If it rotates at all stop and put some lube in there to decrease the "drag" so it continues to rotate.
I've even used long pieces of steel (round stock) and stuck the round rods through the flukes then grab the round rods with vice grips to try and rotate the broken tap. There's like a million ways to do it, you just have to take you time and don't force anything. I had one guy bring me a motorcycle engine (aluminum) and he had broken off a tap in the cylinder head. Then he had taken a carbide drill and broken it off in the tap. THAT WAS HELL because aluminum is so soft and he couldn't afford a new cylinder.



PS _ One more thing that popped into my head after I made this post.....I've never tried it but it might work really great, if you have an engraver you might try putting it against the tap and it might just shatter it. Like I said, this idea just popped into my head a few minutes ago. I would love to try this method...think about it, if you touch a piece of glass with an engraver it will shatter. Especially if you touch the threaded portion of the tap (where it's the weakest). I've never heard of this method before but it doesn't cost much at all because HF has engravers real cheap!!
Treblig
 
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Well its out, after about an hour of dicking with it from the top, grinding at it with various dremel tool bits and banging at it with a punch with no results.
I finally said screw it, if I take the head off then I can use a cut off wheel to cut a slot in the bottom end that's sticking out, and get a screwdriver into it. This is what I did and it worked perfectly. Once I decided on this course of action, it took all of ten minutes. Of course the upper part of the hole now has no threads left, but its a deep hole and there's a good 1/2" of threads left in the bottom half of the hole. Might need to us a little longer bolt on that hole, but all is well.
Except, I think I'm going to need to buy another new set of head gaskets, since some of it came off with the head, and some remained on the block. What do you guys think?

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for future reference: What if you ground a metric bolt (just undersized) and cut 2 deep grooves in the end like a cross so you end up with a 4 flute ended bolt?
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Great idea Pishta! Actually, you can use anything that is the tap drill size (.257" diameter) or smaller to make the home-made tap extractor. I think this one might be a bit on the small side to attempt making, but it might be possible.
 
Wait a sec, I thought you were chasing intake threads?

You can't mess with threads in the decks.There was an article presented here on FABO as to why,not long ago. I'll see if I can find it.
Nope sorry,can't find it; I think it had something to do with stretch.
 
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This is what I LOVE about this forum. A guy had what appeared to be a huge problem, and everybody jumps in to help, and the problem gets solved. Never having dealt with this, I did not have a solution, but the ideas made great reading.
 
AJ/FormS said:
Wait a sec, I thought you were chasing intake threads?

You can't mess with threads in the decks.There was an article presented here on FABO as to why,not long ago. I'll see if I can find it.
Nope sorry,can't find it; I think it had something to do with stretch.
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I was chasing intake threads, I just showed the pics of the head and block to see if people think I need a new head gasket after removing it. It was an intake bolt hole that I removed the tap from.
 
MileHighDart said:
I was chasing intake threads, I just showed the pics of the head and block to see if people think I need a new head gasket after removing it. It was an intake bolt hole that I removed the tap from.
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Nobody else has offered their opinion, so I'll go first: No, I would not use those head gaskets. Too much work to have to tear it all apart again when you find out something is leaking later on.
 
Ya know, if ya had just pulled the head and bought a new pair of head gaskets, you'd be installing that bad boy right now.
How do I know?
Because I do the same thing everytime. I had no idea I had so many brothers. :lol:
 
I agree..... clean the surfaces and start with a fresh set of head gaskets.

And I for sure would not put that head back on a new engine build that I cared about without putting a Helicoil in the damaged hole. 1/2" of threads in the bottom is not gonna work that well. The gap between those bottom threads and the top of the hole is gonna let the bolt angle around and worry at those threads at the bottom of the hole.

I'd drill it all out and put in a full length Helicoil. You can get 3/8" helicoils from 3/8" to 1-1/8" long: HeliCoil | HeliCoil Drill Sizes | HeliCoil Drill Chart | HeliCoil Specs | HeliCoil Data | HeliCoil Inserts | HeliCoil Screw Thread Inserts | HeliCoil Thread Repair Kits | HeliCoil Tools | Recoil

Of course, you are going to have to tap new threads in the hole for the Helicoil...... easy to read up on tapping into cast iron.
 
Revhendo said:
Ya know, if ya had just pulled the head and bought a new pair of head gaskets, you'd be installing that bad boy right now.
How do I know?
Because I do the same thing everytime. I had no idea I had so many brothers. :lol:
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Well, I did drive around to 5 different parts stores yesterday and nobody had a pair of head gaskets. Couple places had 1 felpro gasket, the gasket set I used was Mahle, I don't want to mix gaskets, just in case they are different thicknesses. So I gotta get one of these places to get me a pair, and then pull the other head...
 
MileHighDart said:
Well, I did drive around to 5 different parts stores yesterday and nobody had a pair of head gaskets. Couple places had 1 felpro gasket, the gasket set I used was Mahle, I don't want to mix gaskets, just in case they are different thicknesses. So I gotta get one of these places to get me a pair, and then pull the other head...
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Oh you are doing way better than me. I usually end up ordering from Rockauto, Summit, Amazon whatever, because I can't find it local and need it within a few days. So, after getting it right away, it takes me a month to get back to it.....
 
Revhendo said:
Oh you are doing way better than me. I usually end up ordering from Rockauto, Summit, Amazon whatever, because I can't find it local and need it within a few days. So, after getting it right away, it takes me a month to get back to it.....
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Oh, I've done it that way too!
 
rustycowll69 said:
oh yeah, one more thing. You're no dumber than the rest of us. You're just human. Humans make mistakes. Like any self respecting human, you should be blaming someone else, like Murphy, as in Murphy' s Law: "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong, and at the worst possible time."[/QUOTE
And Murphy was an optimist.
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